A CIVILIZATION on MARS? 1B/200M Years Ago? (Pt. 3)

[maxtheknife]

Thank you, MA.... I agree 100%. I'm glad you said that. Can we stay here for a while? <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[telfrow]

Here’s an image I found while browsing today…<br /><br />...is it a natural feature or an artificial one?<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

BTW...just trying to have some fun with this...<img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">...shot 79 w/ 2 birdies yesterday...</font><br /><br />I got two rounds in this weekend. Let's just say if you gave me a stroke for every five years of difference in our ages, I'd have won. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[centsworth_II]

Can't tell if it's a mound or a depression. That would make it either a slag heap or a strip mine. Either way, artificial. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

Uh, this..... ? http://www.enterprisemission.com/message.htm<br /><br />And this.....? <br /><br />Maybe I don't understand your question, Telfrow. What were you hoping would be visable? What will be visable of the Gizamids 10,000 years from now?<br /><br />The newly visable platform is stunning, isn't it? Oh, it doesn't exist, right. I'm supposed to hide my eyes because you refuse to acknowlege the obvious? <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

 

[najab]

I'm just running through the door, so I don't have time for a long post, but if I understand you correctly, you're saying that the measurements are determined by the message, and the message is derived from the measurements. <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

 

[maxtheknife]

Let's try this again with cropped image...<br /><br />This statue is only a couple of hundred years old and it's already missing a whole hand.....Will it still be discernable as art 10,000 years from now? <br /><br />How do you propose we reconstruct what the hand might have looked like? Hm.... Great question, Max! Thanx Max! <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />

 

[maxtheknife]

You don't understand correctly, Naj..... That's the problem. You still refuse to accept that on a clear day on Mars, the sky is blue. <br /><br />Extraordinary claims require extraordinary efforts. So far the attitudes and efforts exhibited have been less than extraordinary to say the least.<br /><br />You guys believe Cydonia to be anything but artificial..... THAT'S the problem. There is no supporting data no matter how strong it is....It's a waste of time, NASA tells us everything.....there are no secrets....... <br /><br />Right.... <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

 

[zenonmars]

Avenger, <font color="yellow">"Zen replies: And that is what I've been saying all along. We need MUCH more and better data. You lost me there. I thought that the argument was that NASA has the “good” data but is “dumbing it down”, “hiding” it, or deliberately “degrading it. I can’t follow when you change the rules so fast and so often."</font><br /><br />Not to say that NASA hasn't tried dumbing <b>US</b> down by hiding or altering data, but my point was that we have the capability, technologically, to get the "close-ups of the license plates", to "see the lawn furniture".<br /><br />But since you brought it up <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> ........<br /><br />From: <br />http://www.enterprisemission.com/skull.htm <br /><br />"Under increasing political pressure applied by the Enterprise Mission and the Art Bell radio program in the last few weeks, Malin Space Science Systems director Michael Malin suddenly "found," and then unceremoniously dumped, eight new images of the region on his web site last week. Malin's website claims the images were taken between July 4th, 1999 and February 17th of this year. The timing of this sudden data dump is curious, to say the least. Malin had given no indication that any such release was being planned, and in fact had been conspicuously silent on any future imaging of the region since the initial Science Phasing Orbit images taken in April, 1998. This new release, coming on the heels of Dan Goldin's rough questioning at the hands of Senator (and Presidential candidate) John McCain of Arizona and Goldin's subsequent public admission that JPL is overseen by a committee led by former NSA and DIA honcho Bobby Inman, seemed calculated to relieve the public pressure put on the agency in recent weeks...Clearly, this new image release was cynically designed to curry favor with congressional critics and reinforce the idea that NASA is open and honest. But, by <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[zenonmars]

Avenger has just made the most important and telling post <b>EVER</b> on these boards (for real, no sarcasm):<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"I suspect that Richard Hoagland is a pretty nice guy. I suspect that Zen and Max are probably nice guys also. It is even possible that Mental Avenger is a nice guy. If any of us ever met, and did not know of the others’ beliefs regarding UFOs, formations on Mars etc, we might like each other. It is also possible that any one of us may have ended up on the other side of the “fence” if only a few earlier circumstances had been different. That makes these discussions even stranger, doesn’t it?"</font><br /><br />Yes, Avenger, it really does. Thank-you for the clarity.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[zenonmars]

steve, <font color="yellow">"This is yet another example of the false dichotomy. The features in question are clearly natural geological shapes. It's just amazing how the RCH minions keep arguing illogically, right in front of everyone. The persistent bad logic alone, marks them for what they are"</font><br /><br />Steve, please read my long post above. Read it slowly. There is plenty of minion-ism to go around. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[mental_avenger]

If I EVER hear a <u>single argument</u> that even <i>partly</i> convinces me that NASA has the slightest reason to withhold data that would prove the existence of either a past or present ET Alien presence, either on Earth, Mars, or anywhere else in our Solar System, I will <i>then</i> begin to question the data they have produced, even though it still looks legitimate and complete.<br /><br />Two points:<br />1. IMO, NASA currently has everything to gain, and nothing to lose by presenting evidence of an ET Alien presence, IF it actually exists.<br /><br />2. For such information to exist and still be hidden would require a <u>massive</u> conspiracy that would involve hundreds, if not thousands of people from many different organizations and companies.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="2" color="#ff0000"><strong>Our Solar System must be passing through a Non Sequitur area of space.</strong></font></p> </div>

 

[mental_avenger]

<font color="yellow"> Not to say that NASA hasn't tried dumbing US down by hiding or altering data, </font><br /><br />For all the claims made in that regard, I STILL haven’t seen any evidence of it. And please, don’t insult us again with that tired old “catbox” argument.<br /><br /><font color="yellow"> but my point was that we have the capability, technologically, to get the "close-ups of the license plates", to "see the lawn furniture". </font><br /><br /><br />That technology is not currently orbiting Mars. My own digital camera, taking photos from the space shuttle, would do as well. The really high resolution equipment takes a lot more bandwidth than we have currently available. They are working on that problem. People seem to forget that imaging Mars from orbit is far different than imaging Earth from orbit.<br /><br />The “cost of war” is STILL irrelevant to this discussion, UNLESS you can <u>prove</u> that without the war, Malin would actually be given more funds to produce “pretty pictures”.<br /><br />There are several obvious facts which refute the claim. But the one that stands out is Hoagland’s take on the cost of the images. First off, in case you didn’t know it, the images which take the orbiter 15 minutes to acquire, then take the orbiter 23 hours and 45 minutes to transmit back to Earth. The small data buffers onboard, and the limited power, severely limit the amount of imaging and the locations of imaging the orbiters are capable of. For instance, on any given orbit, the orbiter may have to forgo imaging a planned site if it was forced to image another unplanned site. Then, the planned site may have to wait months before the orbiter passes over it in an orbit AND a time when it can image it again.<br /><br />Also, it is almost certain that the cost of the images is mostly in the processing. The processing is long and involved, and requires a lot of man hours. I’ll see if I can find the link I had to a step by step breakdown of <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="2" color="#ff0000"><strong>Our Solar System must be passing through a Non Sequitur area of space.</strong></font></p> </div>

 

[telfrow]

It’s a neat little argument, Max. <br /><br />There is a “message” in the geometry of Cydonia. And the geometry confirms the message. The anchor of that geometry is the “D & M Pyramid.”<br /><br />We can’t tell you precisely how old it is, but depending on how the stars aligned in the Martian sky and the way Meso-American structures look here on Earth, it could be 25,000, 50,000, 200,000 or 300,000 years old. But it could be a million years old. Or 65 million years old.<br /><br />And, BTW, the “pyramid” is so heavily eroded that we can’t make out its original structure with any degree of precision, so we have to ‘extrapolate” the anchor points for the pentagon(s) that were incorporated in its construction. <br /><br />What caused the erosion? Not sure. But it could have been the result of an exploding planet that caused “tumultuous cataclysms…mega-tsunamis…mega quakes, winds in excess of 900 miles per hour…the sucking off of most of the atmosphere and water into space…” <br /><br />However, in spite of all that, our “extrapolations” are <b>so</b> good that we can provide <b>exact</b> measurement of angles. (<b>Precisely</b> 60 degrees, 120 degrees, 85.3, 69.4, 34.7, 49.6, 45.1, 55.3; <i>see Torun</i>) and <b>precisely</b> align the angles of the structure with other features in the area. <br /><br />Ignore the fact that if our anchor points for the pentagon are off by a degree, none of the measurements are correct and the mystical “angles” disappear.<br /><br />And, ignore the fact that if our anchor points for the pentagon are off by a degree or two, the alignments with the other features at Cydonia don’t exist. <br /><br />And BTW, that extra feature that we didn't use the first time around? Well, we're using it now...and instead of creating an irregular six sided natural feature, we're going to use it to make <i>another</i> pentagon.<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">Extraordinary claims require extraordinary efforts. So far the attitudes and efforts exhibited have been less than extraordinary to say the least. </font><br /><br />I couldn't agree more. <br /><br />But you shouldn't be so hard on yourself Max. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Now do your homework. Anchor points, remember?<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[maxtheknife]

Right, Telfrow...Time for your side to put up or shut up..... Are you going to actually do the work and substantiate Plait's claims?<br /><br />http://members.aol.com/ddrasin/zen.html<br /> <br /><font color="yellow">Like all systems of truth seeking, science, properly conducted, has a profoundly expansive, liberating impulse at its core. This "Zen" in the heart of science is revealed when the practitioner sets aside arbitrary beliefs and cultural preconceptions, and approaches the nature of things with "beginner's mind." When this is done, reality can speak freshly and freely, and can be heard more clearly. Appropriate testing and objective validation can--indeed, *must*--come later.</font><br />

 

[telfrow]

Sure, I’m up for it. What do you think all the posts of the “pyramid” with the lines were for? Tell me what features were used to determine the anchor points, and we can get started. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[telfrow]

Your photo just posted.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">How do you propose we reconstruct what the hand might have looked like?</font><br /><br />By looking at the other hands? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[zenonmars]

Avenger, <font color="yellow">"One more point. It is extremely clear that Hoagland’s bias has driven him to view everything that happens regarding Mars or NASA, as a direct attack on himself or a conspiracy, regardless of the actual purpose, intent, or result of the event. The terminology he uses, the unfounded accusations, and the always nasty innuendoes continually illuminate his dishonesty.(with regards to Mars and NASA)"</font><br /><br />Avenger?<br />Not just Richard, you see.<br />"According to Vincent Dipietro, during the "Case for Mars" conference at Boulder, Colorado in 1981, Dipietro and his research partner Gregory Molenaar were audibly assaulted by Dr. Malin. Malin had set up a display table near to the one hosted by Dipietro and Molenaar, who were trying to generate interest in the Face and their image enhancement process. Every time anyone approached the table and started to look at the images of the Face, Malin picked up a megaphone and began yelling into it, creating so much noise that he was able to drive away many a curious conference-goer." <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Any independent confirmation of this story? Given the unreliability of the source my scepticism is pardonable.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[zenonmars]

tel, <font color="yellow">"Here’s an image I found while browsing today… is it a natural feature or an artificial one?"</font><br /><br />This one, I think, goes right to our Martian argument. BTW, this is what's left of a pyramid in Egypt:<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[zenonmars]

Same thing here: <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[zenonmars]

And this is an ancient city in China: <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[telfrow]

Well, thanks for playing Zen. I said I was trying to have a little bit of fun with it, but I guess you missed that part. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>