A Draconian Admission [CLOSED]

[dragon04]

<p>Nothing big, really...</p><p>I've been listening to PE (President Elect) Obama the past couple days. I don't know if it's that he's no longer on the Fantsay Trail that is our Presidential Campaign, or that iy would have been time not as well spent talking pragmatics, but that's what I've heard from him yesterday and today as he's been announcing his Economic Team.</p><p>Not so much who he's choosing, although I should address that. On the surface, it might be easy to call him a hypocrite because he's employing a goodly number of former Team Clinton people, and other "insiders", but honestly, I don't think any Presidential Administration/Cabinet can get "up to speed" fast enough with true "outsiders". It's not pragmatic to even try although it sounds pretty good in th Campaign trail.</p><p>I still do not agree with some of his politics. I likely never will. But IMO, the man is a pragmatist first and a Liberal second. That's about all we can ask for. He's not afraid of taking charge, and he's got a plan. Like it or not, he's got a plan. He's also doing a good job of telling the People what's coming well in advance.</p><p>I offer the Bush Administration big time props as well. The President is being very accomodating in this transition phase and that's also good for the American People. I know a lot of you dislike Bush, but I think he's a Class Act. This is only one example. </p><p>Obama has put together a competent team to tackle the Economy in his advisors and Cabinet level choices. Caapable people regardless of what Administration they previously worked for. Just to lend a little crdence to my opinion, Neil Cavuto from Fox News has publicly recognized the level of competence that PE Obama will be bringing to the table.</p><p>The man appears serious. He appears to have a plan. I don't know how it will all work out, but I know it could be a lot worse and I think PE Obama will give it an honest shot. I don't know wha avenue he will take, but if the end result is favorable, even if it's an avenue I wouldn't take, I'll be okay with it.</p><p>I saw a comment in another thread that was a response to someone who must have stated that the stock market dropeed because Obama got elected. From all I'm hearing and reading, his choices for his Economic Team have encouraged Wall Street and not caused stock selloffs. Maybe in a booming economy with a strong market reaping massive profits, it might be true that a Democrat getting elected would drive people out of the market due to the possibility of increased capital gains taxes and such, but so far, in this battered market and weak economy, that's not the case.</p><p>He's done a small positive here. He's letting people know what's down the road. That in itself is good for the market. Barack Obama can "redeem" himself on some of the "character issues" others have raised especially during the Campaign by serving us all well. He's off to a good start, and I'm big enough to acknowledge that. The rest is up to him. He's got his "fair chance" in my mind. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[jimglenn]

<p>Just wait until he activates his al qaida terror cell. That "fist jab" was foretelling. Probably after they give him the codes to the bombs. Will get mushroom clouds over some cities. He is delaying ending the wars and giving the middle class mo' checks. I withdraw my vote. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cry.gif" border="0" alt="Cry" title="Cry" /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[enigma10]

<p>I once was on a road trip with a friend. I was driving and he was doing co-pilot. Every once in awhile, he would tell me what is up ahead. Up in the distance, i saw storm clouds gathering. Looked pretty dark. I definitely knew it was going to rain. A few minutes later, my co-pilot told me it was going to rain. I liken Obama to my co -pilot that day. Thanks for telling me its going to rain.</p><p><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-innocent.gif" border="0" alt="Innocent" title="Innocent" /> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"<font color="#333399">An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan</font></em> </div>

 

[10_stone_5]

<font size="2" color="#000080">The word is Obama is reconsidering his initial tax plan and is considering keeping the current Bush tax cuts in place - at least for the time being until more encouraging economic news develops.</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><strong></strong></em></p> </div>

 

[frodo1008]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Nothing big, really...I've been listening to PE (President Elect) Obama the past couple days. I don't know if it's that he's no longer on the Fantsay Trail that is our Presidential Campaign, or that iy would have been time not as well spent talking pragmatics, but that's what I've heard from him yesterday and today as he's been announcing his Economic Team.Not so much who he's choosing, although I should address that. On the surface, it might be easy to call him a hypocrite because he's employing a goodly number of former Team Clinton people, and other "insiders", but honestly, I don't think any Presidential Administration/Cabinet can get "up to speed" fast enough with true "outsiders". It's not pragmatic to even try although it sounds pretty good in th Campaign trail.I still do not agree with some of his politics. I likely never will. But IMO, the man is a pragmatist first and a Liberal second. That's about all we can ask for. He's not afraid of taking charge, and he's got a plan. Like it or not, he's got a plan. He's also doing a good job of telling the People what's coming well in advance.I offer the Bush Administration big time props as well. The President is being very accomodating in this transition phase and that's also good for the American People. I know a lot of you dislike Bush, but I think he's a Class Act. This is only one example. Obama has put together a competent team to tackle the Economy in his advisors and Cabinet level choices. Caapable people regardless of what Administration they previously worked for. Just to lend a little crdence to my opinion, Neil Cavuto from Fox News has publicly recognized the level of competence that PE Obama will be bringing to the table.The man appears serious. He appears to have a plan. I don't know how it will all work out, but I know it could be a lot worse and I think PE Obama will give it an honest shot. I don't know wha avenue he will take, but if the end result is favorable, even if it's an avenue I wouldn't take, I'll be okay with it.I saw a comment in another thread that was a response to someone who must have stated that the stock market dropeed because Obama got elected. From all I'm hearing and reading, his choices for his Economic Team have encouraged Wall Street and not caused stock selloffs. Maybe in a booming economy with a strong market reaping massive profits, it might be true that a Democrat getting elected would drive people out of the market due to the possibility of increased capital gains taxes and such, but so far, in this battered market and weak economy, that's not the case.He's done a small positive here. He's letting people know what's down the road. That in itself is good for the market. Barack Obama can "redeem" himself on some of the "character issues" others have raised especially during the Campaign by serving us all well. He's off to a good start, and I'm big enough to acknowledge that. The rest is up to him. He's got his "fair chance" in my mind. &nbsp;&nbsp; <br /> Posted by dragon04</DIV></p><p>Well dragon, that was indeed far more gracious that what I see on Manny's abomination of a thread.&nbsp; He is now telling us that Obama is not even an American citizen, and therefore should not even have been eligible for president in the fist place.</p><p>I wonder what would happen on the streets of our cities if the supreme court was to even try to negate the elections?</p><p>As I remember this sort of thing once happened back about 1860, and the results were not that good for a whole lot of Americans then either! </p><p>I just wish some of the people here would stop being such sore losers!&nbsp; And to think that some were afraid that the big problem would be the gloating of the winners, well in general that did not happen. &nbsp;</p><p>These types should just quit and let the man become the president, and when he does something they don't like just do what many of the rest of the country have been doing for the last few years with president Bush.&nbsp; Just complain about it when he actually does something you don't like!</p><p>Again, thanks for your reasonableness and graciousness here! </p>

 

[crazyeddie]

Yeah, many pundits and analysts are using the word "pragmatic" to describe Obama these days. &nbsp;He's definitely taking a middle-of-the-road approach and not caving to the demands of his more liberal constituents. &nbsp;I view this as a measure of his good sense and intelligence, and it makes me feel even better about voting for him. &nbsp;And I can see why he's suddenly moving fast and stepping up with policy ideas: the economy is going down so quickly that it will only get increasingly harder for him to start fixing things once he takes office, unless something is done NOW.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[dragon04]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Well dragon, that was indeed far more gracious that what I see on Manny's abomination of a thread.</DIV></p><p>Do NOT bring your petty feud with MP to my thread. This is not a platform from which to launch yet another asinine assault on someone who speaks his mind whether you like it or not. </p><p>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Again, thanks for your reasonableness and graciousness here! <br /> Posted by frodo1008</DIV></p><p>I neither seek nor need your thanks. You're on a crusade to eliminate any and all anti-Democrat and anti-Obama threads on this forum, yet you were conspicuously absent from your noble cause over the last 4 years while the Liberal Crowd roasted Bush and Cheney on a spit.</p><p>I should thank YOU because you responded to ME on MY thread and that afforded me to have the opportunity to tell you exactly what I think of you. Which isn't much.</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[dragon04]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Yeah, many pundits and analysts are using the word "pragmatic" to describe Obama these days. &nbsp;He's definitely taking a middle-of-the-road approach and not caving to the demands of his more liberal constituents. &nbsp;I view this as a measure of his good sense and intelligence, and it makes me feel even better about voting for him. &nbsp;And I can see why he's suddenly moving fast and stepping up with policy ideas: the economy is going down so quickly that it will only get increasingly harder for him to start fixing things once he takes office, unless something is done NOW. <br /> Posted by crazyeddie</DIV></p><p>This would be a case where the term "pragmatic" seems to apply. That's always subject to change, but the important point is that he's looking to solve the immediate crisis. After things are on an even keel, there will be plenty of opportunity to assess just how pragmatic he really is.</p><p>I personally think he has good sense. I question hia associations with Wright, Ayers, etc., but the truth of the matter is that I've had some pretty seedy friends myself in my time. </p><p>He is obviously intelligent. I also believe him to be a man of action. I also understand that what HE wants done and what Congress does and how fast they do it are not totally under his control. The key to his success will be to bring Blue Dog Democrats and more Centrist Republicans together to form a coalition that can ignore the extreme emds of both parties.</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[SPACEINVADOR]

Bush goes from incompetent to being a class act? Incredible...

 

[crazyeddie]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Bush goes from incompetent to being a class act? Incredible... <br /> Posted by SPACEINVADOR</DIV></p><p>Only insofar as the Transition goes......he HAS been a class act. &nbsp;Unfortunately, it's probably the only time in his entire presidency where he can claim that!&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[dragon04]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Bush goes from incompetent to being a class act? Incredible... <br /> Posted by SPACEINVADOR</DIV></p><p>I never said Bush was incompetent. I voted for the man twice. You looking to start a fight or something? </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[dragon04]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Only insofar as the Transition goes......he HAS been a class act. &nbsp;Unfortunately, it's probably the only time in his entire presidency where he can claim that!&nbsp; <br /> Posted by crazyeddie</DIV></p><p>Thank you for recognizing and affirming that from the "other side". </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[SPACEINVADOR]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Only insofar as the Transition goes......he HAS been a class act. &nbsp;Unfortunately, it's probably the only time in his entire presidency where he can claim that!&nbsp; <br /> Posted by crazyeddie</DIV></p><p>Seeing how much damage the man has caused my country,&nbsp; I cannot give him any applause.&nbsp; I'm glad he is departing without resistance, so to speak. </p>

 

[SPACEINVADOR]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I never said Bush was incompetent. I voted for the man twice. You looking to start a fight or something? <br /> Posted by dragon04</DIV></p><p>If I could go back to the old boards, I could easily find evidence of my comment. Remember when you said you wipe your hands clean of being a bush supporter, when it came to the war?</p>

 

[crazyeddie]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Thank you for recognizing and affirming that from the "other side". <br /> Posted by dragon04</DIV></p><p>I suspect that Bush is probably quite relieved to be handing the reins of power over.....I would be, if I were him.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[dragon04]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>If I could go back to the old boards, I could easily find evidence of my comment. Remember when you said you wipe your hands clean of being a bush supporter, when it came to the war? <br /> Posted by SPACEINVADOR</DIV></p><p>Yes I do remember.... Rumsfeld was allowed too much freedom, and it was incompetent to delay the "surge" for 3 years, or in hindsight, to not have the extra troops in country from day one.</p><p>The Republican Party prior to the 2006 mid terms was also incompetent in its permission of excessive spending. There's a caveat to that though. By definition, we were destined to spend more due to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. MY problem is that spending was nto CUT in other places if these wars were so damned important.</p><p>You don't need to spend a lot of time trying to nail me to the cross on something I said. I'll do your work for you. The Bush Administration HAS done some incompetent thins (in my opinion) but that has NOTHING to do with the President's qualities as a human being.</p><p>He could have decided to be an ASS and co-operated with the Obama transition team as little as possible if not openly obstruct them much like Carter did with Reagan in 1980. No. President Bush thinks bigger than that. H eknows he's handing a mess over to the next guy and is doing everything he can to help the transition and thereby is serving something greater than political party. He's serving the American People.</p><p>Now. I'll ask you again. Are you just wanting to fight? I mean, I'll hit you in your mouth as many times as the Mods will let me if you want to be an idiot.&nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[rubicondsrv]

[QUOTEI'll hit you in your mouth as many times as the Mods will let me Posted by dragon04[/QUOTE]<br /><br />that would be zero times <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[dragon04]

Replying to:[QUOTEI'll hit you in your mouth as many times as the Mods will let me Posted by dragon04that would be zero times
Posted by rubicondsrvThen perhaps you should watch what others say to me, eh? You do what you gotta do, and I'll do what I gotta do. That you're a Mod does not impress me. You seem to be one always more than eager to flex your Mod Muscle. I'm glad you have a place with such absolute authority. Spare me your threats. "2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".

 

[rubicondsrv]

Replying to:that would be zero times Posted by rubicondsrvThen perhaps you should watch what others say to me, eh? You do what you gotta do, and I'll do what I gotta do. That you're a Mod does not impress me. You seem to be one always more than eager to flex your Mod Muscle. I'm glad you have a place with such absolute authority. Spare me your threats.
Posted by dragon04

if others are engaging in behavior aganst the TOS please point it out to me and it will be dealt with.I do not have absolute athority.moderator actions are subject to review and reversal by admins.

 

[dragon04]

Replying to:Then perhaps you should watch what others say to me, eh? You do what you gotta do, and I'll do what I gotta do. That you're a Mod does not impress me. You seem to be one always more than eager to flex your Mod Muscle. I'm glad you have a place with such absolute authority. Spare me your threats. Posted by dragon04if others are engaging in behavior aganst the TOS please point it out to me and it will be dealt with.I do not have absolute athority.moderator actions are subject to review and reversal by admins.
Posted by rubicondsrvDESPITE my political beliefs, I create a conciliatory thread to promote goodwill, and some JERK comes into that thread and wants to start a fistfight. And I'm the one you decide to spank?I'm not the one who decided to be an a**hole. SPACEINVADOR was. Perhaps you should ask him what his motivations were in calling me out when I was trying to be decent and conciliatory.I mean, I can be a jerk, too. And it would appear that if I choose NOT to be a jerk, there are idiots that read this forum who will use my good will to prosecute me. I will call them out. Or you can do something about them. That's your choice.  "2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".

 

[rubicondsrv]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>if others are engaging in behavior aganst the TOS please point it out to me and it will be dealt with.I do not have absolute athority.moderator actions are subject to review and reversal by admins. Posted by rubicondsrv</DIV>DESPITE my political beliefs, I create a conciliatory thread to promote goodwill, and some JERK comes into that thread and wants to start a fistfight. And I'm the one you decide to spank?I'm not the one who decided to be an a**hole. SPACEINVADOR was. Perhaps you should ask him what his motivations were in calling me out when I was trying to be decent and conciliatory.I mean, I can be a jerk, too. And it would appear that if I choose NOT to be a jerk, there are idiots that read this forum who will use my good will to prosecute me. I will call them out. Or you can do something about them. That's your choice.&nbsp; <br />Posted by dragon04</DIV><br /></p><p>unfortunately there is very littile I can do when someone is just being obnoxious.</p><p>however if a poster is making direct attacks aganst another poster action will be taken.</p><p>so far this thread has not had any tos violations so there is nothing i can do.</p><p>If somone is driving the thread off topic that can be dealt with.</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rubicondsrv]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> And I'm the one you decide to spank?Posted by dragon04</DIV></p><p>no action has been taken aganst you.</p><p>nor will it be unless you violate the TOS.</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[vladdrac]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Yes I do remember.... Rumsfeld was allowed too much freedom, and it was incompetent to delay the "surge" for 3 years, or in hindsight, to not have the extra troops in country from day one.The Republican Party prior to the 2006 mid terms was also incompetent in its permission of excessive spending. There's a caveat to that though. By definition, we were destined to spend more due to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. MY problem is that spending was nto CUT in other places if these wars were so damned important.You don't need to spend a lot of time trying to nail me to the cross on something I said. I'll do your work for you. The Bush Administration HAS done some incompetent thins (in my opinion) but that has NOTHING to do with the President's qualities as a human being.He could have decided to be an ASS and co-operated with the Obama transition team as little as possible if not openly obstruct them much like Carter did with Reagan in 1980. No. President Bush thinks bigger than that. H eknows he's handing a mess over to the next guy and is doing everything he can to help the transition and thereby is serving something greater than political party. He's serving the American People.Now. I'll ask you again. Are you just wanting to fight? I mean, I'll hit you in your mouth as many times as the Mods will let me if you want to be an idiot.&nbsp; <br />Posted by dragon04</DIV><br /><br />I heard today, someone on the radio, say that 'democratic ways had been braught to Iraq. That remains to be seen. Maybe our economic salvation lies in the creation a sort of Marshall Plan for 'The Nations of the South', someohow giving them the means to pay us back and allowing them to be enthusiastic about it. If Russia China and America cooperated fully in 'The Space Race' how soon could the moon become a commercial venture profitable to the entire species&nbsp;<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" />&nbsp;If this thing gets as bad as some say poor Mr. Bush is likely to hear unkind remarks long after his time as President. Who is der lieber Karl working for these days? FOX I think. That was his evil alter ego. I forgot <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" />&nbsp;Karl works for FOX Murdoch these days. I always thaught George was an OK guy surrounded by some very unscroupulous people. Chief among them Dick ( The Torturer ) Cheney and Karl ( The Doctor)&nbsp;Rove...sort of the head on the oil barrons thing. Lets see what academics and businessmen from all business's can do instead of being run by a bunch of oilmen. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[SPACEINVADOR]

<p>Relax..., I wasn't "trying" to attack you or start a fight.&nbsp; All you had to do was reply to me using a cool head. But you went as far as asking me if I was ready for a fight. Then you turn some of your aggression towards a moderator.&nbsp;</p><p>In the past I've even gone as far to send you a private message regarding my respect for you. Sorry I upset you to this level, but I will not take back what I said.</p><p>I was just confused about your thought process on the matter in respect to my comment, that's all. You did a good job at beating-around-the-Bush. I will now bow out of this thread.&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

 

[frodo1008]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>if others are engaging in behavior aganst the TOS please point it out to me and it will be dealt with.I do not have absolute athority.moderator actions are subject to review and reversal by admins. Posted by rubicondsrv</DIV>DESPITE my political beliefs, I create a conciliatory thread to promote goodwill, and some JERK comes into that thread and wants to start a fistfight. And I'm the one you decide to spank?I'm not the one who decided to be an a**hole. SPACEINVADOR was. Perhaps you should ask him what his motivations were in calling me out when I was trying to be decent and conciliatory.I mean, I can be a jerk, too. And it would appear that if I choose NOT to be a jerk, there are idiots that read this forum who will use my good will to prosecute me. I will call them out. Or you can do something about them. That's your choice.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by dragon04</DIV></p><p>Yeah, and when I tried to be nice about your being conciliatory, I got my head bit off by you!</p><p>I had previously thought you to be one of the more reasonable conservative leaning posters on this forum, was that a mistake? </p><p>In the first place these threads are NOT your threads, anymore than they are mine.&nbsp; Try looking at the agreements for using this space and you&nbsp; might just note that the threads on these forums of this space all belong to space.com! </p><p>Then on your conciliatory thread you you then see fit to fight it out with another poster!&nbsp; Even going so far as to make threats about such a fight!</p><p>Then you tackle the MODS!</p><p>This is being conciliatory? </p><p>Get up on the wrong side of the bed or something?</p><p>By the way I will take your admonishment about mentioning Manny's problems to heart, yes that was not a good thing on my part.&nbsp; But then, I am perfectly willing to admit it when I make a mistake here.</p><p>How about yourself?</p><p>&nbsp;</p>