Alien mothership lurking in our solar system could be watching us with tiny probes, Pentagon official suggests

[Pogo]

If someone on Europa had observed Voyagers as they passed through the Jupiter system, they would have been observed to leave the system at the same relative velocities as they arrived. A slingshot trajectory doesn’t appear so from within the system. But, we the observers from outside that system see a velocity increase from arrival to departure. But that only works from certain approach angles, from Jupiter’s trailing side to the leading side, otherwise, the velocity boost is subtractive (I.e. slower).
The velocites observed for ‘Oumuamua were from within the solar system, therefore the departing velocity is about the same as arrival velocity, thrust accelleration notwithsting. But, to an observer at a nearby star would see a boost if it approached from one of those correct angles.
However, wiki says it approached from about 6° from the solar apex, the direction the Solar System is moving. It will have departed at a slower galactic orbital velocity than it arrived, and a different direction.

EDIT- OK, to be grammatically correct, I should’ve used speed instead of velocity, Velocity is speed and direction.

 

[Dave]

The mere hint of an acknowledgement of alien civilizations from a member of the Pentagon representing AARO is by itself a step in the right direction. Loeb is not the only astrophysicist to believe in other intelligent lifeforms.
Unicorns do not exist. Life and intelligent life in our galaxy does exist. Something else also exists, a reason to classify information concerning UFO's and UAP's. The military need to put their cards on the table. Let us see your hand.

 

[Think twice]

The outgassing is predominately on the side facingthe Sun, always forcing the object away from the Sun.

The reference suggests that reference that Oumuamua is spinning.
And my assumption was the spin axis is orthogonal to direction of travel.
To enable an internal motor to change speed of spin. Kind of like when
a knife when thrown and spins it is very accurate if the spin is in the direction of travel.
This can only mean that both sides of the object alternatively face the sun.
The outgassing would be omni directional and not contribute to any
specific direction of travel.

[/QUOTE]
The object is not "travelling at 'just the right angle'to maximize solar slingshot". There is no gravity assist possible from the Sun as it is at rest with respect to the Solar System. See Wiki article on Gravity Assist under paragraph entitled "Limits". "Interplanetary slingshots using the Sun itself are not possible because the Sun is at rest relative to the Solar System as a whole." - Wiki
[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure I understand your interpretation of the slingshot effect. The wiki page says you are incorrect:
“gravitational slingshot, gravity assist maneuver, or swing-by is the use of the relative movement (e.g. orbit around the Sun) and gravity of a planet or other astronomical object to alter the path and speed of a spacecraft, typically to save propellant and reduce expense.”
In other words the suns gravity *does* contribute to the slingshot effect.
It increases speed of the object as it approaches the sun. And
seeing as the anomalous precession of planets always increases the orbital
speed by slightly more than predicted. Then maybe the gravitational
assist for Oumuamua was greater than allowed for by Newtonian predictions. As observed.

 

[Think twice]

The reference suggests that reference that Oumuamua is spinning.
And my assumption was the spin axis is orthogonal to direction of travel.
To enable an internal motor to change speed of spin. Kind of like when
a knife when thrown and spins it is very accurate if the spin is in the direction of travel.
This can only mean that both sides of the object alternatively face the sun.
The outgassing would be omni directional and not contribute to any
specific direction of travel.

The object is not "travelling at 'just the right angle'to maximize solar slingshot". There is no gravity assist possible from the Sun as it is at rest with respect to the Solar System. See Wiki article on Gravity Assist under paragraph entitled "Limits". "Interplanetary slingshots using the Sun itself are not possible because the Sun is at rest relative to the Solar System as a whole." - Wiki
[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure I understand your interpretation of the slingshot effect. The wiki page says you are incorrect:
“gravitational slingshot, gravity assist maneuver, or swing-by is the use of the relative movement (e.g. orbit around the Sun) and gravity of a planet or other astronomical object to alter the path and speed of a spacecraft, typically to save propellant and reduce expense.”
In other words the suns gravity *does* contribute to the slingshot effect.
It increases speed of the object as it approaches the sun. And
seeing as the anomalous precession of planets always increases the orbital
speed by slightly more than predicted. Then maybe the gravitational
assist for Oumuamua was greater than allowed for by Newtonian predictions. As observed.
[/QUOTE]

The outgassing is predominately on the side facingthe Sun, always forcing the object away from the Sun.

The object is not "travelling at 'just the right angle'to maximize solar slingshot". There is no gravity assist possible from the Sun as it is at rest with respect to the Solar System. See Wiki article on Gravity Assist under paragraph entitled "Limits". "Interplanetary slingshots using the Sun itself are not possible because the Sun is at rest relative to the Solar System as a whole." - Wiki

I forgot to mention the other crucial point. The sun is moving
*relative to the galaxy as a whole*. So as voyager does with the planets...
oumuamua does with the individual stars of the galaxy.

 

[Dave]

The method that we choose to travel around objects in space is very effective. Others using the same method seems logical. Gravitational assists around other interstellar objects can make objects move at even greater speeds. Think of the gravitational assist around a neutron star. The mothership then releases its dandelion seed in the form of Oumuamua. The gravitational assist from our sun is used solely to connect to the mothership. Observation is achieved and those observed are unaware of the process. This is possibly one way you can observe intelligent life at our level of development.
Oumuamua does not look like any type of natural phenomena. It is in the perfect shape of a craft concealed in camouflage to observe our star system.

 

[billslugg]

I’m not sure I understand your interpretation of the slingshot effect. The wiki page says you are incorrect:
“gravitational slingshot, gravity assist maneuver, or swing-by is the use of the relative movement (e.g. orbit around the Sun) and gravity of a planet or other astronomical object to alter the path and speed of a spacecraft, typically to save propellant and reduce expense.”
In other words the suns gravity *does* contribute to the slingshot effect.
It increases speed of the object as it approaches the sun. And
seeing as the anomalous precession of planets always increases the orbital
speed by slightly more than predicted. Then maybe the gravitational
assist for Oumuamua was greater than allowed for by Newtonian predictions. As observed.

The increase in speed is due to the interaction of the probe with a planet orbiting the Sun. Only a 3 body configuration can be used to slingshot. In a two body interaction, the probe gains exactly as much speed on the way in as it loses on the way out. This only applies to objects bound to the Solar System.

This is why slingshots around the Sun, by objects bound to the Solar System, do not work.

I forgot to mention the other crucial point. The sun is moving
*relative to the galaxy as a whole*. So as voyager does with the planets...
oumuamua does with the individual stars of the galaxy.

Yes, with the Milky Way as the central body and the Sun as the third body an object on a hyperbolic orbit can be used to increase velocity relative to the Milky Way.

 

[Think twice]

The increase in speed is due to the interaction of the probe with a planet orbiting the Sun. Only a 3 body configuration can be used to slingshot. In a two body interaction, the probe gains exactly as much speed on the way in as it loses on the way out. This only applies to objects bound to the Solar System.

This is why slingshots around the Sun, by objects bound to the Solar System, do not work.



Yes, with the Milky Way as the central body and the Sun as the third body an object on a hyperbolic orbit can be used to increase velocity relative to the Milky Way.

Yes although thinking about it, launching a craft from earth within the suns relative grip doesn’t preclude it from using a solar slingshot. Because really,..the only advantage Oumuamua has was not that it was extra solar, but just that it had enough velocity relative to sun To take advantage of gravity assisted slingshot.
So we could slingshot craft from earth around sun and leave the solar system. It’s just that additional acceleration pre slingshot would be neccesary.
Seperately Looking at an animation of suns path through galaxy with planetary orbits is interesting. Our planetary orbit plane is tilted relative to suns motion. So our planets seem to be behind the sun , then ahead each orbit, I believe.
I would have thought this gives each planet or any craft launched from each planet an extra acceleration relative to sun. If the craft was launched when the planet was behind sun but moving to ahead of the sun. If that makes sense.

Our Motion Through Space Isn't A Vortex, But Something Far More Interesting

One of the most popular viral videos about space is dead wrong. But it gives us a chance to learn something incredible.

www.forbes.com

 

[billslugg]

The mainstream rule is "no two body system can eject anything". In order for a slingshot to occur there must be at least 3 bodies involved. Thus no object can slingshot around the Sun and raise their orbit. The must be an interaction with one of the planets to get ejected. Pioneer, Voyager and New Horizons all did this.

Oumuamua can obtain velocity relative to the Milky Way by passing close to the Sun, which is in orbit around the Milky Way.

Oumuamua could have done even better by arranging a close pass to Jupiter. The fact this did not occur argues against intelligent directive.

 

[Think twice]

The mainstream rule is "no two body system can eject anything". In order for a slingshot to occur there must be at least 3 bodies involved. Thus no object can slingshot around the Sun and raise their orbit. The must be an interaction with one of the planets to get ejected. Pioneer, Voyager and New Horizons all did this.

Oumuamua can obtain velocity relative to the Milky Way by passing close to the Sun, which is in orbit around the Milky Way.

Oumuamua could have done even better by arranging a close pass to Jupiter. The fact this did not occur argues against intelligent directive.

Anyways I was reading the full wiki page. Very interesting animations. If I understand it correctly it came from in front of the sun as the sun travels around the Milky Way and slingshotted/ricocheted back upwards to go ahead of the sun again. Sounds like a deliberate orbital manoeuvre to me. And it doesn’t seem like it went or could have gone anywhere near Jupiter. That is if its next destination is it’s current path. I can understand your reluctance to speculate.There always has to be conservative vs radical voices to guide us through the dross that sometimes gets used as “physics”...but we need to speculate to accumulate.
For instance if Oumuamua were part of a network of interstellar cargo ships,all the observations makes perfect sense. And as experiments like Sagnac and MMX shows us ,...contrary to erroneous predictions by relativity , virtual instantaneous communication over cosmological distances are possible and would keep the network knitted together.
But we’ll see. So far, according to wiki I think all the possible outgassing explanations are ruled out after second thoughts. Even the Hydrogen Oxygen possibilities you cited are ruled out or are so speculative as to be no less fanciful then an alien probe.. And it was interesting to see that space launch systems from NASA could catch up to it.

 

[billslugg]

Oumuamua came from the direction of Vega and is now headed towards Pegasus
In Depth | Oumuamua – NASA Solar System Exploration

The Sun is traveling towards the star Vega as the Solar System orbits the galaxy.
Visualize the sun's path through Milky Way | Sky Archive | EarthSky

Thus, Oumuamua chose a star that was moving directly towards it. This can do nothing but slow it down. Maybe they wanted to slow down as they approach some goal somewhere.

 

[Dave]

To every action there is a reaction. Another part of this discussion deals with exploration. We know it is there, so what do we do about it. Do we send a probe to Oumuamua or similar objects like this, to learn about this type of phenomena or do we follow the lead of Stephen Hawking who warned us not to make contact with more advanced lifeforms. We humans we are a curious species. In the future when we see objects like this I personally feel we need to explore them. It is after all in our star system. We have every right to know what is here.

 

[Think twice]

Oumuamua came from the direction of Vega and is now headed towards Pegasus
In Depth | Oumuamua – NASA Solar System Exploration

The Sun is traveling towards the star Vega as the Solar System orbits the galaxy.
Visualize the sun's path through Milky Way | Sky Archive | EarthSky

Thus, Oumuamua chose a star that was moving directly towards it. This can do nothing but slow it down. Maybe they wanted to slow down as they approach some goal somewhere.

Yes. Looking at the slingshot is interesting. NASA says on one of its pages that Oumuamua left the solar system at exactly the same speed it arrived. And looking at the animation part way down this page:

How Does NASA's Spacecrafts Travel In Space Without Fuel?

The gravity of planets in between can be exploited to "slingshot" these probes and reinvigorate them to finish their set course.

www.scienceabc.com

One can see that the right hand anim (solar frame) shows no change in speed of the blue line (Oumuamua). Relative to the dot (sun) As NASA says.
But if one looks at the left hand anim (milky way frame) one can see that actually Oumumua (blue line) does get additional velocity from the sun( black dot) . Even though in fact it came from in front of the sun and left going forwards of the sun. As is also roughly the case with this animation . (Although at very oblique angles)
So its interesting that NASA sort of got it wrong by not mentioning its acceleration relative to the Milky Way.