Burt Rutan to build orbital "SpaceShipThree"

[vt_hokie]

Check out the link at nasawatch.com:<br /><br />"Virgin Galactic and Scaled Composites to develop orbital version of tourist spacecraft Orbital vehicle SpaceShipThree (SS3) will be developed by space tourism company Virgin Galactic and Mojave-based SpaceShipTwo (SS2)-developer Scaled Composites, if the planned SS2 suborbitalservice is successful, says Virgin Galactic president Will White horn."<br /><br /><br />My question is, will this vehicle have anything in common with SpaceShipTwo? We're talking about an immensely more complex task in going all the way to orbit. There are so many things that would be totally different - the aerodynamic requirements through a wider range of conditions, the thermal protection requirements, life support, attitude control above the atmosphere (the suborbital craft do have RCS, I realize, but I imagine a more robust system would be needed), and so on. <br />

 

[teije]

This is just marketing I guess. Keeping their name in the spotlights. Notice this: <font color="yellow"> if the planned SS2 suborbitalservice is successful </font><br />That's a big if. They probably have some sketches flying around that will be leaked to the public bit by bit. But I don't think they'll do any serious developement before that 'if' sentence has become reality.<br /><br />NB: I do hope they pull that off though. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br />Teije<br /><br />

 

[mikejz]

I wonder if SS3 will include those hybrid parafin engines I hear about...

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"That's a big if. "</font><br /><br />It's also a big 'when?'. I believe the current first flight projection for SS2 is 2008. They won't know if it's commercially "successful" until at least a year after that, and likely two. Hold off on actual excitement for a few years on this one.

 

[teije]

couldn't agree more. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[mikejz]

The big question for SS3 is if Burt has come up with a way to do a 'carefree reentry' from orbit.....

 

[chriscdc]

Well I predict there will be an SS4, at least in spirit if not in name.<br /><br />The thing is we don't really know anything about SS2 yet so saying that there will be an SS3 just means that they are seriously considering expanding, which we were all hopeing for anyway.

 

[no_way]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>will this vehicle have anything in common with SpaceShipTwo?<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />If ever developed, wanna bet that it would look a lot like t/Space CXV ?<br /><br />But yeah, announcements of stuff like five years down the road are just that, announcements. We all know how fine and dandy Beal, Kistler and Roton have turned out.

 

[vt_hokie]

Haha...yeah, indeed. I was actually assigned to work on Kistler when I was at AlliedSignal/Honeywell. But of course, there wasn't much work to be done when Kistler ran out of money.

 

[mikejz]

I would not say that they ran out of money, they had $500 million--they ran out of good ideas to cut costs.

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"I would not say that they ran out of money..."</font><br /><br />I have to imagine their <i>creditors</i> would say they ran out of money... seeing as they declared bankruptcy and all. If they didn't run out of money yet still declared bankruptcy... then some parties are likely to be quite upset about not seeing their money. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[mikejz]

By that I mean that It seems as though the failure of the company was not lack of funding but approprately controlling it.

 

[tap_sa]

<font color="yellow">" if Burt has come up with a way to do a 'carefree reentry' from orbit....."</font><br /><br />Time to copy the Russians. Soyuz, carefree reentry since .. 1971.

 

[shuttle_rtf]

This is nothing more than the notorious Virgin PR machine in works.<br /><br />Got to keep those rich elite interested in buying tickets.

 

[kane007]

We'll maybe this is Burt's way of telling us he is going it alone (without NASA) with the CXV.

 

[no_way]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Got to keep those rich elite interested in buying tickets. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Absolutely. Coz if not for the rich elite buying, you couldnt afford an airline ticket, computer, TV set, a car or much of any now mainstream but initially high-tech product.

 

[shuttle_rtf]

And how many years did that take?<br /><br />Branson's attention span for companies being a long-term investment to viability is weak at most.<br /><br />He's never, not once, aimed any of his companies at the general public per say.<br /><br />This guy tried to buy Concorde for Virgin Airlines - because he wants to cater for the elite.<br /><br />This guy sold Virgin Records - because he didn't want to compete with lower price outlets.<br /><br />Virgin Mobile is one of the most expensive packages - why? Cause once again, he's going for quality, rather than low prices.<br /><br />He's a cater for the elite - if the elite are willing to pay - that's all you're going to see on this project with Butan.....if he doesn't lose interest. This guy folds with a King high running flush at poker- because he only ever wants an Ace high running flush. <br /><br />Personally I've got more support for the elite military that work their arses off to get into NASA than I have for some fat cat executive who wants for him and some mates to spend a few minutes in space.

 

[JonClarke]

In my part of the world we would say you are suffering from the tall poppy syndrome.<br /><br />I nearly always fly Virgin when I can because they are a darn sight cheaper than the opposition. Branson caters for the mass market as well as the elite. Furthermore he has been interested in space tourism for many years and there is absolutely no reason aside - aparat from cyncism - to think we won't pull this off.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[shuttle_rtf]

I hope it does, even if it won't be affordable to anything below upper middle class Americans. <br /><br />However, I question Branson's longevity, based of his factual past.<br /><br />I'm very surprised to hear you find Virgin Airlines cheaper than the opposition. Maybe that's simply down to your part of the world.

 

[blairf]

Mmm lets see. Somewhere on his private Carribean island...<br /><br />Richard Branson ponies up multiple millions of his cash, signs up 150 space pioneers, generates £stacks of publicity for the O'Nellian spirit, fulfils a 15 year personal ambition, talks seriously about orbital hotels, and generally lives his dream...<br /><br />meanwhile in a suburban basement... <br /><br />Shuttle RTF dribbles over another kwel shuttle photo, genuflects to the manly NASA fly boys, strokes his large orange booster, trashes Virgin Galactic and so lives his dream...<br /><br />

 

[frodo1008]

Any capsule type of system such as the CXV, or even the much beloved soyuz, MUST have a very powerful booster rocket. Any aircraft capable of handling such a rocket would have to have far greater carrying capability than the 747, the big Russian job just MIGHT be able to handle it, but I think there is only one in existance. <br /><br />If Burt Rutan is going to use such a system he must also have to do this either in concert with NASA, using Mike Griffin's idea for using the SRB of the shuttle as a booster. Or even possibly (shudder to think of it) Boeing/LM's Delta IV or Atlas V Heavy (or more likely super heavy). Or possibly the Russians, or some other country (of course then he losses the patriotic applause).<br /><br />The only pure private effort that misght be sufficient to handle this would be spacex's Falcon series, but they have not even launched Falcon I yet, let alone come close to even the Falcon V. And even the Falcon V is going to be only in the Delta II throw weight class. It is going to be quite awahile before spacex can develope a booster capable of the necessary throw weight to put such a capsule into orbit.<br /><br />So, I would think that right now the CXV is indeed aimed at NASA, and only NASA! <br /><br />Seeing Burt Butan's other efforts, I really don't think he is very interested in a 40 year old design. He might be willing to work on such for something quick and inexpensive for NASA's money, but I would think that he really wants a lifting body shape at the very least for his own ideas for the effort to place human beings into orbit.<br /><br />So he IS going to have to investigate the hypersonic region in order to do this. This IS going to take some time, and perhaps even some government help! However, Burt Rutan is certainly a genius, and as such is fully capable of surprising all of us!

 

[spacefire]

My bet is, it's going to be a two stage design with the first stage based on a supersonic bomber like the XB-70 Walkirie, the second stage a simple rocket and the Orbiter will be a lifting body design looking a lot like the X24A. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[shuttle_rtf]

>meanwhile in a suburban basement...<br /><br />Shuttle RTF dribbles over another kwel shuttle photo, genuflects to the manly NASA fly boys, strokes his large orange booster, trashes Virgin Galactic and so lives his dream... <<br /><br />Funny guy. Ever considered Stand Up?

 

[spacester]

My understanding and observation has been that Burt Rutan does not announce something unless he's figured out how to do it and is in fact already in development.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[kdavis007]

Hate rich people???