CEV-on-a-stick makes first flight!

Swampcat · Nov 7, 2005

OK, so it's only my model of the CEV/CLV, but it flew. I know there are some amateur rocketeers out there who might be interested in this. I've been working on it for a month or so. It's not finished (some paint and details still to go), but I got a chance to fly it Saturday so I did. It's a scale model of the CEV/CLV taken from the latest NASA drawings. It's 49-5/8" in length and weighs 31 oz. It's designed to fly on 29mm motors. I flew it on an F25-4. It was a good flight to around 600' despite it being a bit windy at the launch site. No stability problems at all. Unfortunately, it landed on a concrete runway (the launch site is an old Navy airfield) and there is now a crack around the upper stage. Nothing I can't fix, though. Comments? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

henryhallam · Nov 7, 2005

it landed on a concrete runway There you go, what more evidence do you need that precision landings can be made by capsules with parachutes? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> Also looking forward to the photo.

spacefire · Nov 7, 2005

first and only flight of the CEV? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.comhttp://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </div>

Swampcat · Nov 7, 2005

OK, picture's up. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Nov 7, 2005

"There you go, what more evidence do you need that precision landings can be made by capsules with parachutes?" <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> Well, actually I was hoping to hit the grass, but I missed it by about 5 feet. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

henryhallam · Nov 7, 2005

Looks like a very nicely built model, well done!

Swampcat · Nov 7, 2005

"first and only flight of the CEV? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />" <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> I hope not. I 'll just slap some fiberglass on it, put in a bigger motor and go for orbit <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Nov 7, 2005

"Looks like a very nicely built model, well done!" Thanks. I was laid off a couple of weeks ago so I've had some time on my hands. Here's some more pictures. The upper left shows the payload compartment. The payload will mostly be weight for when I use bigger motors. The upper right shows some of the aft end detail. The bottom two pictures were taken before I painted the upper stage. The lower left is a view of the capsule end. The launch escape tower is one area that I expect to modify when I get around to it. The lower right is a view from the aft end. You can see where the launch lugs go through the aft skirt and upper transition, as well as the motor retention system. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

gaetanomarano · Nov 7, 2005

you can be sure of that!

propforce · Nov 7, 2005

Unfortunately, it landed on a concrete runway (the launch site is an old Navy airfield) and there is now a crack around the upper stage. Hmmm..... sounds like a little separation problem between first and second stage <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

gaetanomarano · Nov 7, 2005

"...Hmmm..... sounds like a little separation problem between first and second stage..." with six "model-astronauts" on the top...

Swampcat · Nov 7, 2005

"...sounds like a little separation problem between first and second stage <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />" <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> I'd probably have cried if it had actually separated. The crack is close to what would be the intertank area in the full scale vehicle. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

henryhallam · Nov 7, 2005

Have you thought about converting it to an actual two-stage model? I suppose getting it stable in both configurations would be tricky without fins on the upper stage.

Swampcat · Nov 7, 2005

"Have you thought about converting it to an actual two-stage model? I suppose getting it stable in both configurations would be tricky without fins on the upper stage." Converting it to a two-stage would be difficult. I had originally thought about building it as an two-stage, but, as you point out, stability of the upper stage is a problem without an active guidance system. I'm working on that <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

henryhallam · Nov 7, 2005

Please keep us informed, I've had ideas about actively-guided model rockets but never built anything.

trailrider · Nov 8, 2005

What is the source for the fins shown? I'm asking because I am due to give two talks to some grade-school kids next week, and I built a 1/144 scale "stick" using parts from a Space Shuttle with booster and ET kit, as well as a ET/5 segment SRM HLV. I used photos of one of the early concepts, but I want to be right! Any help would be appreciated. Ad Luna! Ad Aries! Ad Astra!

mattblack · Nov 8, 2005

WELL DONE!! I admire your initiative and it's symbolism, which venerates a very good vehicle design. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America CAN Afford it!! LEO is a Prison -- It's time for a JAILBREAK!! </div>

vt_hokie · Nov 8, 2005

That's awesome! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> I would love to make a model of the VentureStar...it would be the only way I'll ever see it fly, sadly! But, alas, I never graduated from the Estes toys. Maybe someday, if I can find the time...

ace5 · Nov 8, 2005

1- Your model was very nicely built; It is a pitty that you dont recover it by parachutes; 2- You should pay more attention to the launch escape system. A well-detailed LES in a model gives it a nice appearance; 3- I always like to detail inside my vehicles. So I guess if you dont think about fit the Command Module with seats and panels and model astronauts; 4- Your model is nice -- it is the CEV launcher that is a shame. It is a very ugly design. The *uglyest* I ever saw for a manned spacecraft launcher. Better revive the (wonderful) Saturn I rocket, even with a kerosene fueled 2nd stage. That was a real launcher.

Swampcat · Nov 8, 2005

"Please keep us informed, I've had ideas about actively-guided model rockets but never built anything. Will do. I haven't gotten past the study part at this point, but I have a pretty good idea how I want to do it. Cold case jets. It's probably the simplest approach. Few moving parts. The biggest hurdle is managing the feedback loop between whatever you're using as a guide (a sun sensor is my choice) and the distributor used to fire the jets. I've read that it can be done. It's just darn hard. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Nov 8, 2005

"What is the source for the fins shown? I'm asking because I am due to give two talks to some grade-school kids next week, and I built a 1/144 scale "stick" using parts from a Space Shuttle with booster and ET kit, as well as a ET/5 segment SRM HLV. I used photos of one of the early concepts, but I want to be right! Any help would be appreciated." The fins are derived from one of the earliest drawings released by NASA (see image below). Whether or not the final design has fins is still undecided. In my early work with this design using Rocksim I found that going without fins was possible, but would require a lot of weight to be added to the forward end of the rocket to make it stable even with small motors. I then asked a question about the fins on a thread titled "Ridin' 'The Stick': Dangerous, Complex, Cancelled?" and was given the impression that that issue was still undecided despite the latest drawings showing no fins. I suppose if the final design shows no fins then I'll just cut them off my model and try flying it on bigger motors. As long as I can get it off the pad fast enough it should fly fine. Oh, just thought I'd point out that technically the aft skirt provides a similar function as fins, except for roll control. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Nov 8, 2005

"WELL DONE!! I admire your initiative and it's symbolism, which venerates a very good vehicle design." Thank you. And, yes, it's a fine design. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Nov 8, 2005

"1- Your model was very nicely built; It is a pitty that you dont recover it by parachutes;" Thanks. Actually I DO use a 36" parachute for recovery. "2- You should pay more attention to the launch escape system. A well-detailed LES in a model gives it a nice appearance;" The LES tower is one of those areas that I mentioned in an earlier post that I want to modify in the future. The current version was taken directly from a NASA drawing that is obviously not very detailed. Also, this is a flying model which means that whatever is on the model must be able to survive launch and landing. I decided that I wanted to fly the model as is first and add the details later. "3- I always like to detail inside my vehicles. So I guess if you dont think about fit the Command Module with seats and panels and model astronauts;" That's nice. I'd like to see some examples of your work. "4- Your model is nice -- it is the CEV launcher that is a shame. It is a very ugly design. The *uglyest* I ever saw for a manned spacecraft launcher. Better revive the (wonderful) Saturn I rocket, even with a kerosene fueled 2nd stage. That was a real launcher. I disagree with your opinion about the CLV. I see it as an elegant solution to a mostly political problem, but I like it. What about it makes you see it as ugly? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Nov 8, 2005

"Glueing the tube inside the body and the wire on the fin, allows a quick change by removing and plugging in new ones when you find more details later." Nice tip, newsartist. Thanks. I just wonder if that would hold together during flight, but I guess it could be made to work. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Nov 8, 2005

"The upper stage is too big, the real one will be shorter." "OH, But it looks very nice. Good job." Thanks, S_G. As far as the size of the upper stage is concerned, all I have to go on is NASA's released PR images. They show a range of lengths on the upper stage. In the earlier drawings the upper stage was quite short while the last set of drawings (the ones I based my model on) it was much longer. Do you have some inside insight on what the real one's dimensions will be? Maybe I'll build another one...with bigger motors <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

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