Coring of the Moon

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dryson

Guest
I got this idea from investigating the new NIF.

The restarting of the core of a planet or a moon could be achieved by using the NIF facility to create a fusion release of energy. Theoretically how it would work is that when the reaction occurs the release of regulated energy would create the same process as the sun or the cores planet which is relatively the same function as that of the sun except that the sun does not have a layer of material around it to aid in the distribution the magnetic lines of gravity.

First Stage: A drilling rig would be built on the best site possible on the moon. The site chosen would be the area where the layers of the moon were not as strong and would allow for easy drilling to the core. During this process acidic fluid would be pumped into the drill bit that would assist in moleculary destabilizing the iron nickel or whatever type of material was to be drilled through. Although I have done a little bit of research on this topic, I have still been unable to find the necessary material to make the drill head resistant against the acidic fluid used while still being able to remain durable enough to drill through the moon material.

Any help in locating the correct acid to be used to assist the drilling process as well as drill head material that would be resistant
to the acid used would be appreciated.

Stage Two: a second coring would be necessary to enlarge the overall diameter of the insertion hole for to allow for the NIF sphere and related components to be lowered into the moons core. The most likely machine used would be a Old John Henry. The tunnel boring machine would have to be built vertically and in stages because of the immense size of the machine.

Stage 2a: Once boring had begun, and the initial insertion point had been bored past, tracking would have to be laid ahead of the boring machine's crawlers in order for it to continue its forward travel. Buckets would also have to be built that would constantly be able to remove the bored material while the machine was running. These buckets would run in a clockwise motion around the portion of the bore head where the material would be built up the most. The same type of acidic fluid as well as bore head material used for the initial drilling would be used to assist in excavating the material. During the boring at every 100' rooms would be cut into the sides of the tunnel that would be used for crew housing as well as core operations facilities later on when the tunnel had been completed.

Stage 2b: After boring to the center of the moon core was complete, the boring machine would then be backed up out of the tunnel and dissembled and the components left for future use. The boring head would be placed on the closest rise as a monument to the success of the dig. The material that had been excavated would then be sent to Earth and be used to manufacture moon products where the profits generated would then be put back into the project at a 100% level of revenue.

Stage 3: The third stage would see the actual coring of the moons core. Another machine designed to create a spherical core would be lowered to the cores center using the same tracks that boring machine did. The spherical bore head attached to the machine on the surface would begin to core out the moons core. The head itself would be in the shape of an orange. The coring teeth would run on bearings that would cover the surface of the sphere along different paths and would be operated by sending hydralic fluid through the bearings at high pressures. The teeth theirself would come in various sizes ranging from the first coring of two feet. After two feet had been cored the two foot long teeth would be removed and replaced with four foot teeth. This process would continue until the coring had been completed to a maximum diameter of ten feet. Once the initial core was complete machines similar to the XL 5110 would be lowered into the core to begin the process of internally enlarging the core. Instead of using the hammer style probe as seen in the picture a rotary style scaler would be used instead. What comes to mind is a large cyclinder with teeth on it that would rotate at the ends on spindles. The same acidic fluid would be used to aid in the breaking down of the core material. While the 5110's were coring out the core to it's final diameter of a one mile in diameter core, the piping and associated framework for the NIF sphere would be built on the inside of the tunnel's wall. At the surface the main control facilities would be built as would the solar array meant to collect UV rays from the sun to be used to provide electric power to the project. During this time there would be other rigs positioned around the moons surface drilling ventilation shafts to the core that would provide a means of ventilation for the core when it heated up and increased magma began to build back pressure and would need a place to evacuate from.

Stage Four: Finalization. The final stage of the project would see the components of the NIF sphere lowered into the core and assembled. The first pieces would be the plasma conditioning units that would connect to the NIF sphere. These units would be used to convert the fusion reaction into plasma energy. Next, the NIF sphere would be lowered into the core. The overall diameter of the NIF sphere would be 5% less then the overall diameter of the tunnel itself. The NIF Sphere would then be connected to the plasma converters and the material used in the fusion process placed within the NIF sphere.

Then the button would be pushed. In theory when the fusion action occurs and is converted into plasma the plasma would melt the core material. As the core material melted the spin of the planet would align the plasma/magma flow and create a centrifugal force that would cause the magma to produce magnetism that would then aid in the gravitational pull of the planet so that we could walk on the moons surface normally as well as possibly releasing water into the atmosphere that might be stored throughout the planets surface.

Although a very large project that would require hundreds of years at our current rate of technology to finish it would still make for a great sc-fi channel movie.
 
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MannyPim

Guest
Holy Cow !
This is one of the STRANGEST posts I have ever read.

I can't even begin to formulate a rational response.
 
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phaze

Guest
MannyPim":3bn9brhu said:
Holy Cow !
This is one of the STRANGEST posts I have ever read.

I can't even begin to formulate a rational response.
Can't say I disagree!


I'd like to add... whatever the OP is talking about. Could you please test it out on some other Moon first?
 
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MeteorWayne

Guest
That's not uncommon with his posts :)

I'd point out the bad science, but in Free Space, it would serve no purpose. FS and the Unexplained, you can sort of get away with anything ;)
 
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yevaud

Guest
Heh.

No offense, Dryson, but you fall into a category I've seen many, many times before: you focus on the "gee whiz - look at this gigantichumungous vehicle carrying this powerful device we invented, deep into a hole us brilliant humans bored in the ground, solving all of our problems in an afternoon..." It plays out like a little movie. Boy, day-dreaming is fun, ain't it?!

The Physics are quite absent.

[Well, at least this is a more appropriate forum for it...]
 
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R1

Guest
I don't like the idea of using magnetism to aid gravity, though.
Also, It is actually a good thing that gravity is small on the moon.
 
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frodo1008

Guest
Even if this were remotely possible, it would be incredibly dangerous. Changing such items as the spin of the moon and its momentum would do what to the Earth?

Even worse, if this were to somehow break up the moon itself, just how many large pieces would then land on the Earth with incredible energy!

As someone else asked, I would also ask that if this were ever to even become feasible that it should be tried out on one of the remoter moons of Jupiter. Jupiter would to be able to absorb the kind of punishment that such an operation might just generate a whole lot better than our own space ship Earth would!!!
 
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dragon04

Guest
The material that had been excavated would then be sent to Earth and be used to manufacture moon products......

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


 
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mental_avenger

Guest
So many fallacies, so little time.

First off, why would anyone want to melt the core of the Moon, let alone spend that much time and money doing so?
dryson":exuo5jjt said:
Theoretically how it would work is that when the reaction occurs the release of regulated energy would create the same process as the sun or the cores planet[/b] which is relatively the same function as that of the sun except that the sun does not have a layer of material around it to aid in the distribution the magnetic lines of gravity.

No, it isn’t the same process. Not even close.

dryson":exuo5jjt said:
The material that had been excavated would then be sent to Earth and be used to manufacture moon products where the profits generated would then be put back into the project at a 100% level of revenue.
The cost of transporting raw materials from the Moon to the Earth would easily exceed any profits that might be gained from sales of “moon products”, not even including the costs of processing, manufacturing and marketing. Such a scheme would lose money.

dryson":exuo5jjt said:
cause the magma to produce magnetism that would then aid in the gravitational pull of the planet so that we could walk on the moons surface normally
No, it would not.

dryson":exuo5jjt said:
Although a very large project that would require hundreds of years at our current rate of technology to finish it would still make for a great sc-fi channel movie.
It would make a terrible SciFi movie. SciFi movies have to be at least a little bit believable. But at least we now know you aren’t really serious about this “project”, you are just trying to write a SciFi story.
 
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MeteorWayne

Guest
mental_avenger":mun4ovpt said:
It would make a terrible SciFi movie. SciFi movies have to be at least a little bit believable. But at least we now know you aren’t really serious about this “project”, you are just trying to write a SciFi story.
Obviusly you did not watch NBC's "Meteor" this weekend. It was FAR worse than this level of foolishness :)
 
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R1

Guest
mental_avenger":226pbrvm said:
dryson":226pbrvm said:
The material that had been excavated would then be sent to Earth and be used to manufacture moon products where the profits generated would then be put back into the project at a 100% level of revenue.
The cost of transporting raw materials from the Moon to the Earth would easily exceed any profits that might be gained from sales of “moon products”, not even including the costs of processing, manufacturing and marketing. Such a scheme would lose money.
Actually it's being recently discussed in SDC that obtaining uranium from the moon may be good and become profitable.
 
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MeteorWayne

Guest
It's been suggested, but no analysis has been demonstrated that the isotopes available could be economically concentrated to a useful level.

It's pure unsubstantiated speculation at this point...
 
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mental_avenger

Guest
R1":ltc7up5n said:
Actually it's being recently discussed in SDC that obtaining uranium from the moon may be good and become profitable.
That does not appear to be what he/she/it was referring to. I missed the uranium discussion. Who thinks there might be uranium on the moon and why? In any case, the costs of mining on the Moon and subsequent transport to Earth would probably be several orders of magnitude more expensive than mining the same material on Earth.
 
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vladdrac

Guest
Hey...when I wrote about using the material of the moon to build an artificial earth...it didn't generate a tenth of the reaction. Anyway..the only way you could change the mass of the moon would be to add or subtract lunar mass...I am pretty sure. And converting all the moons material to structural components of an artificial self propelled planet makes great science fiction. It could make the core of a very long sci fi series describing a thousand year long construction project. Then one could 'do' 'Voyages of Starship Earth' where we get to be the flying saucer guy's for teenage civilizations...ok enough.... :lol:
 
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R1

Guest
mental_avenger":3ofh82y7 said:
R1":3ofh82y7 said:
Actually it's being recently discussed in SDC that obtaining uranium from the moon may be good and become profitable.
That does not appear to be what he/she/it was referring to. I missed the uranium discussion. Who thinks there might be uranium on the moon and why? In any case, the costs of mining on the Moon and subsequent transport to Earth would probably be several orders of magnitude more expensive than mining the same material on Earth.
I linked it here in the miscellaneous space exploration thread:

http://www.space.com/common/forums/viewtopic.php?p=363395#p363395

 
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brandbll

Guest
dryson":1xkdobij said:
I got this idea from investigating the new NIF.

The restarting of the core of a planet or a moon could be achieved by using the NIF facility to create a fusion release of energy. Theoretically how it would work is that when the reaction occurs the release of regulated energy would create the same process as the sun or the cores planet which is relatively the same function as that of the sun except that the sun does not have a layer of material around it to aid in the distribution the magnetic lines of gravity.

First Stage: A drilling rig would be built on the best site possible on the moon. The site chosen would be the area where the layers of the moon were not as strong and would allow for easy drilling to the core. During this process acidic fluid would be pumped into the drill bit that would assist in moleculary destabilizing the iron nickel or whatever type of material was to be drilled through. Although I have done a little bit of research on this topic, I have still been unable to find the necessary material to make the drill head resistant against the acidic fluid used while still being able to remain durable enough to drill through the moon material.

Any help in locating the correct acid to be used to assist the drilling process as well as drill head material that would be resistant
to the acid used would be appreciated.

Stage Two: a second coring would be necessary to enlarge the overall diameter of the insertion hole for to allow for the NIF sphere and related components to be lowered into the moons core. The most likely machine used would be a Old John Henry. The tunnel boring machine would have to be built vertically and in stages because of the immense size of the machine.

Stage 2a: Once boring had begun, and the initial insertion point had been bored past, tracking would have to be laid ahead of the boring machine's crawlers in order for it to continue its forward travel. Buckets would also have to be built that would constantly be able to remove the bored material while the machine was running. These buckets would run in a clockwise motion around the portion of the bore head where the material would be built up the most. The same type of acidic fluid as well as bore head material used for the initial drilling would be used to assist in excavating the material. During the boring at every 100' rooms would be cut into the sides of the tunnel that would be used for crew housing as well as core operations facilities later on when the tunnel had been completed.

Stage 2b: After boring to the center of the moon core was complete, the boring machine would then be backed up out of the tunnel and dissembled and the components left for future use. The boring head would be placed on the closest rise as a monument to the success of the dig. The material that had been excavated would then be sent to Earth and be used to manufacture moon products where the profits generated would then be put back into the project at a 100% level of revenue.

Stage 3: The third stage would see the actual coring of the moons core. Another machine designed to create a spherical core would be lowered to the cores center using the same tracks that boring machine did. The spherical bore head attached to the machine on the surface would begin to core out the moons core. The head itself would be in the shape of an orange. The coring teeth would run on bearings that would cover the surface of the sphere along different paths and would be operated by sending hydralic fluid through the bearings at high pressures. The teeth theirself would come in various sizes ranging from the first coring of two feet. After two feet had been cored the two foot long teeth would be removed and replaced with four foot teeth. This process would continue until the coring had been completed to a maximum diameter of ten feet. Once the initial core was complete machines similar to the XL 5110 would be lowered into the core to begin the process of internally enlarging the core. Instead of using the hammer style probe as seen in the picture a rotary style scaler would be used instead. What comes to mind is a large cyclinder with teeth on it that would rotate at the ends on spindles. The same acidic fluid would be used to aid in the breaking down of the core material. While the 5110's were coring out the core to it's final diameter of a one mile in diameter core, the piping and associated framework for the NIF sphere would be built on the inside of the tunnel's wall. At the surface the main control facilities would be built as would the solar array meant to collect UV rays from the sun to be used to provide electric power to the project. During this time there would be other rigs positioned around the moons surface drilling ventilation shafts to the core that would provide a means of ventilation for the core when it heated up and increased magma began to build back pressure and would need a place to evacuate from.

Stage Four: Finalization. The final stage of the project would see the components of the NIF sphere lowered into the core and assembled. The first pieces would be the plasma conditioning units that would connect to the NIF sphere. These units would be used to convert the fusion reaction into plasma energy. Next, the NIF sphere would be lowered into the core. The overall diameter of the NIF sphere would be 5% less then the overall diameter of the tunnel itself. The NIF Sphere would then be connected to the plasma converters and the material used in the fusion process placed within the NIF sphere.

Then the button would be pushed. In theory when the fusion action occurs and is converted into plasma the plasma would melt the core material. As the core material melted the spin of the planet would align the plasma/magma flow and create a centrifugal force that would cause the magma to produce magnetism that would then aid in the gravitational pull of the planet so that we could walk on the moons surface normally as well as possibly releasing water into the atmosphere that might be stored throughout the planets surface.

Although a very large project that would require hundreds of years at our current rate of technology to finish it would still make for a great sc-fi channel movie.
You should probably check my latest Moon conspiracy in The Unexplained forum that comes from a very legitimate source that would like to remain anonymous. The Moon is already being mined by a colony of E.T. on the far side. For all we know your idea has already been in motion for decades possibly centuries and there is nothing left for us to bore out.
 
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yevaud

Guest
Dude, if ET's had to travel all the way here to mine minerals from Luna, they are so lame that we will take their interstellar empire with three nukes and a shuttle.
 
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brandbll

Guest
yevaud":3pvi7yqk said:
Dude, if ET's had to travel all the way here to mine minerals from Luna, they are so lame that we will take their interstellar empire with three nukes and a shuttle.
They used worm holes to get here and E.T. slaves. Plus, you can't underestimate the value of what they're harvesting out there....
 
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R1

Guest
That reminds me, is there any chance we could find a valuable asteroid or moon with lots of diamonds, gold, or precious stones?
 
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neuvik

Guest
Gold deposited in ore, yea maybe; but I doubt it will be of any sufficient quantity. As for diamond and precious stones I highly doubt it. They are created through intense geologic processes that won't be found on asteroids. And the chance of debris getting blown off a terrestrial body that meets the geologic processes will lack the quantity to merit mining.

But with enough roids and some Tech 2 mining lasers who knows.
 
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R1

Guest
I have also heard of different diamonds elsewhere in space. These are non carbon diamonds, but I forgot
what element they're made of.
 
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neuvik

Guest
Well most elements have crystalline structures....

I not sure if there is some cache of diamonds out there that are not carbon based. A diamond has a pretty specific requirement for its make up, you only get to throw in a few elements to chance the color and that's about it. Wheres our local exo-geologist?
 
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mental_avenger

Guest
R1":2msp24gc said:
That reminds me, is there any chance we could find a valuable asteroid or moon with lots of diamonds, gold, or precious stones?
Diamonds are cheap and plentiful right here on Earth, only DeBeers makes them seem to be expensive. Get rid of DeBeers controls and diamonds would be 1/20 their current price. “Precious stones” such as Rubies and Saphires are just aluminum oxide. We have enough gold in Fort Knox to take care of all our industrial needs for the next 200 years at least, probably a lot longer.

IOW, it would be a lot easier and cheaper to unregulate and redefine such things than to go looking for them in asteroids or moons.
 
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jim48

Guest
Sorry I'm late. As the only real, genuine, bonafide, honest-to-God scientist here at SDC, I have to say ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? And yes, the boy is-a-day-dreamin' a wee too much. ;) Now, having said that, I would also encourage him and others to go right on day-dreaming, because that's where some of our best stuff ever has come from! Seriously. The history of scientific discovery is rife with tales of those who thought against the grain and were ultimately proved right. 90% of the time they can be safely written off, but that 10% when their outside-the-box thinking scores a home-run must be encouraged, although coring the moon seems like an awful lot of work for nothing, IMO.
 
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