Dark Matter 'Acid Test'

[Questioner]

Dark Matter 'Acid Test'

Has anyone looked-for/found any exoplanets orbiting any star in the Omega Centauri globular cluster?

Reportedly Omega Centauri,
"...not only does Omega Cen contain DM with density as high as compact dwarf galaxies,...".

[1907.08564] The glow of annihilating dark matter in Omega Centauri

So if an exoplanet there shows it follows the DM gravity gradient then it lends support for hypothesized DM,
and if doesn't then DM is effectively disproved because the very rationale for DM, namely gravity isn't there.

 

[billslugg]

Omega Centauri is farther away than any exoplanet has ever been detected.
It is at 15,800 light years. The farthest exoplanet was found at 13,000 ly.

 

[Questioner]

But it's not that far beyond current capacities.
The next generation of telescopes might be able to handle that distance.
And it would seem it has its own substantial DM effect going on.

 

[billslugg]

At the distance of Omega Centauri, the only way we can see an exoplanet is through gravitational lensing. This is a one time event that cannot be repeated. Thus we have no velocity data on the planets. It can only tell us how far from the star they are. We have no information to use to calculate how fast each planet is going thus we can't tell if the gravitation equations need to account for DM.

 

[Questioner]

Off the wall speculation,
Maybe a star on the far side of cluster would be gravitationally lensible because of the cluster's own DM effect.

 

[billslugg]

DM in the cluster is not at one point, like a star. Stars within the cluster could not be lensed that way. Only galaxies for behind it can be affected.

The unusually high density of DM in Omega Centauri is calculated by looking at the lensing of galaxies for behind the cluster. They can see very high ring like deformation of far away galaxies surrounding the cluster. Problem is, there are not enough stars in the cluster to do that much bending. This is why they posit DM. Something is there, we just can't find it. The attempt to see it in the gamma ray spectrum looks promising.

 

[Questioner]

That brings up my repeated question,
why would a cloud of DM center itself around Omega Cen's massive black hole?
Galactic DM seems awfully glued to black holes.
If it is some amorphous matter even if it did clump, why is the predominant formation centered on black holes? It doesn't respond to even its own gravity so why black holes?

It will be interesting to see if anything the gamma ray spectrum shows up.

 

[billslugg]

Dark matter has mass thus makes gravity and also responds to its own gravity. What it can't do is interact with itself and form atoms or molecules or dust.
Dark matter can be caught by a black hole in an orbit just outside the event horizon and kept there forever, because it cannot interact with itself. Normal matter bumps into itself and creates heat thus falls into the black hole. DM can't interact with anything thus just stays in orbit. It builds up there.

 

[Atlan0001]

Nothing falls through the event horizon but the duplicate matter-energy clone. The other end of a quantum entangled "spooky action at a distance."

 

[Questioner]

Dark matter has mass thus makes gravity and also responds to its own gravity. What it can't do is interact with itself and form atoms or molecules or dust.
Dark matter can be caught by a black hole in an orbit just outside the event horizon and kept there forever, because it cannot interact with itself. Normal matter bumps into itself and creates heat thus falls into the black hole. DM can't interact with anything thus just stays in orbit. It builds up there.

"Dark matter has mass thus makes gravity and also responds to its own gravity."

Where exactly does one see/observe/deduce DM responding to gravity?

1) The outer edge of DM's halos don't migrate inward under DM's own gravity even over billions of years.

2) DM doesn't pile up around stars and planets and amplify their gravity, and the Omega Centauri globular cluster would be an easy place to spot that.

3) DM isn't cascading into the central black holes of galaxies.

The only way self repelling DM would keep DM out of a black hole is if some DM had crossed the event horizon and still remained intact there.

DM has to be both self repelling AND self attracting?
And indestructible even inside a black hole?

We're down the rabbit hole on that one...

 

[Questioner]

Dark matter has mass thus makes gravity and also responds to its own gravity. What it can't do is interact with itself and form atoms or molecules or dust.
Dark matter can be caught by a black hole in an orbit just outside the event horizon and kept there forever, because it cannot interact with itself. Normal matter bumps into itself and creates heat thus falls into the black hole. DM can't interact with anything thus just stays in orbit. It builds up there.

"Dark matter has mass thus makes gravity and also responds to its own gravity."

Where exactly does one see/observe/deduce DM responding to gravity?

1) The outer edge of DM's halos don't migrate inward under DM's own gravity even over billions of years.

2) DM doesn't pile up around stars and planets and amplify their gravity, and the Omega Centauri globular cluster would be an easy place to spot that.

3) DM isn't cascading into the central black holes of galaxies.

The only way self repelling DM would keep DM out of a black hole is if some DM had crossed the event horizon and still remained intact there.

DM has to be both self repelling AND self attracting?
And indestructible even inside a black hole?

We're down the rabbit hole on that one...

 

[billslugg]

DM has mass thus has gravity and thus responds to its own gravity. There are no exceptions to this rule.
Dm does not repel itself. It is attracted to itself just like any other mass. But when two dark matter particles come together they just go right by each other as they cannot join together like normal matter can. They just maintain their orbit.
DM does not cluster since it cannot form atoms and molecules. A cloud of DM wil stay as a cloud. It does not interact with itself such as to cause friction and loss of energy by radiation. DM will fall into a black hole if it impinges on it directly, it can also go into orbit around it. It will stay in orbit forever since it cannot form an accretion disc like normal matter can, as it does not interact with itself other than by gravity.

 

[Questioner]

If DM and its supposed mass/gravity consolidated anywhere specific we would see visible matter collect in that gravity 'gutter'.

We don't see that.

What is proposed is some fuzzy cloud like a vague notion instead.

Seems to me when a galaxy orbits another galaxy since DM is 4/5ths of the total mass if it had any independent inertia it would rip the galaxy apart.

Because we don’t see any sharp locations DM must be absolutely perfectly uniformly distributed.

DM is a contrivance about a fuzzy notion of untethered gravity.

If it turns out to not even be gravity DM is DOA.

 

[billslugg]

"If DM and its supposed mass/gravity consolidated anywhere specific we would see visible matter collect in that gravity 'gutter'." - Questioner

We do see that. Dark Matter can fall into a Black Hole just as ordinary matter can. Ordinary matter can consolitdate where DM cannot, by virtue of being able to shed energy through particle interactions. DM cannot shed energy, it just stays in orbit in a cloud.

DM and ordinary mass both contribute to the mass of a galaxy thus both contribute to tidal forces which can tear colliding galaxies apart.

 

[Questioner]

DM descending into a gravity field releases energy.

If DM cannot release energy it can not change its relationship to a gravity field, ...ever.

If one thinks of gravity as a topography map of time speed, DM is forced to only follow those topography lines 'parallelly' irrespective of anything else.

Two matter objects can approach one another and conjoin G fields and DM would be forced to travel an in-out angle in a gapped figure '8'.

That is just an inertia mess.

If it makes no sense in terms of inertia then it makes no sense in terms of mass.

 

[Questioner]

Moving mass creates gravity waves.

So the only way DM has no energy exchanges is to be absolutely unmoving.

Galaxies proposed to contain DM move.

DM can not be both absolutely unmoving AND yet moving with a galaxy,

therefore DM is proven impossible nonsense.

QED

 

[billslugg]

DM descending into a gravity field releases energy.

If DM cannot release energy it can not change its relationship to a gravity field, ...ever.

If one thinks of gravity as a topography map of time speed, DM is forced to only follow those topography lines 'parallelly' irrespective of anything else.

Two matter objects can approach one another and conjoin G fields and DM would be forced to travel an in-out angle in a gapped figure '8'.

That is just an inertia mess.

If it makes no sense in terms of inertia then it makes no sense in terms of mass.

1) Incorrect, DM descending into gravity field exchanges gravitational potential energy for kinetic energy, the sum staying constant.

2) Correct, DM cannot change its energy so it stays in the same orbit.

3) Makes no sense.

4) Makes no sense.

5) Makes no sense.

6) Incorrect. DM makes sense inertia wise, mass wise, gravity wise. We just can't figure out what particle it is.

 

[Questioner]

Stars orbit the galactic center at different speeds.
This must inevitably leave a wakes through the DM.
This would show up in perturbed planetary orbits around stars as well as the trajectories of other trailing stars.

Where do we see these perturbed orbits or trajectories?

No where.

DM is nonsense.

 

[billslugg]

DM is too diffuse to create measurable perturbations on the scale of planetary systems. It's effects can only be seen on galactic scales.

 

[Atlan0001]

DM is too diffuse to create measurable perturbations on the scale of planetary systems. It's effects can only be seen on galactic scales.

Good word "diffuse". Zoom up a level in speed and magnitude of hyperspace (thus accelerating contracting accelerating universe expansion (sic)), the diffusion disappears, a galaxy is tighter, more observably inclusive of what before was diffuse dark matter . . . suddenly there is a different galaxy, a different universe even, maybe. Equally, more dark matter, is detected, more of the same diffusion as before. A broader and deeper galaxy on one vertical level of fractal zooms universe structure but so self-similar to what was on the previous level vertically down as to seem a move potentially far distantly horizontal in the same universe. I love a gravity/antigravity force structure with no singularity whatsoever to it, and combining with a scalable strong force (base 'set' and reset regardless of gravity's infinities)!

 

[Questioner]

For DM to maintain its perfect diffusion it must have both self repelling AND self attracting properties.

And these ascribed forces can have no affect (impedance) on visible matter.

That on its own is pretty close to insensible.

Like ping pong balls filling the surface of water.
It creates a kind of space filling rigidity.

DM's whole rationale is that it has mass/gravity.
It must therefore have inertia.

Yet even with rogue stars flying off in any direction there are no observable inertia waves of DM.
And there is no energy interactions from DM not withstanding inevitable inertia energy shifting.

These highly artificial, perfectly distributed 'halo' forms always center on/around black holes, with no solid explanation for why.

But i suppose if one worships at the altar of orthodoxy faith supersedes the need for substantial evidence.

 

[Questioner]

If one wants to propose that DM centers on black holes due to gravity,

yet it has this self imposed perfect uniform distribution, (self repulsion & self attraction)

imagine the magnitude of sheer pressure its own self repulsion is holding back.

Layers and layers of DM pushing inward.

Which means the repulsion force is operating at variant energy levels.
Yet somehow this all happens in its own universe oblivious energy 'clamshell'.

Do DM's magical properties include the transference of its self repulsion force between DM particles from where it is less needed to where it is more needed?

If DM were real there would be an incredible energy potential there.

 

[Atlan0001]

....

If DM were real there would be an incredible energy potential there.

E=mc^2. Quantum entanglement ("spooky actions at a distance"). A look of accelerating expansion of universes . . . or universes headed for energy loaded cellular-like unities and divisions . . . universes colliding, merging, splitting, fusing, fissioning, relativities both breaking down and building up, what-have-you. Schrodinger's cat: It's dead! No it isn't, it's very much alive! It "is" and it "isn't" (+/-) (positive/negative) (past<->future (t=+1) / (t=-1) future<->past) ("equal but opposite") (symmetrical/asymmetrical) (and so on and so forth it works; that is the multi-dimensional Infinite MULTIVERSE Universe for you). It's lamentable there should be 1-dimensional thinking 1-dimensional beings. There is always "incredible energy potential" where you (unspecified in general) (or Daniel Webster or Horace Greeley originally . . . or any of those who screamed over financing Columbus, over the 'Louisiana Purchase' , over the purchase of Alaska....) might have thought there was little to none.

 

[Atlan0001]

The fastest lanes of travel from end to end of the Earth will certainly end up being by way of orbital (interplanetary) space.
The fastest lanes of travel from end to end of the Solar System disk will probably end up being by way of interstellar space. The fastest lanes of travel from end to end of the Milky Way's disk will probably end up being by way of intergalactic space.
The fastest lanes of travel from galaxy to galaxy will probably end up being by way of inter-universe space.

 

[billslugg]

For DM to maintain its perfect diffusion it must have both self repelling AND self attracting properties.

DM does not have repelling properties. A DM particle can only interact with itself and other matter via gravity. A cloud of DM particles will orbit a common barycenter forever. Two particles can only zip by each other, they cannot bump, stick or otherwise interact. Thus they cannot shed energy, which is a must if a cloud is to coalesce.