Does the shuttle ever fly with three trained pilots?

[willpittenger]

I was thinking that if a mission specialist just happened to have a pilot's license, it might be a good idea for that person to receive at least a little time in a shuttle simulator. It is conceivable, even if not likely, that something could happen to to the Commander and Pilot while in orbit. Besides, if you loose one of them, who takes the other pilot seat?<br /><br />I should note that one example in fiction where a non-experience person had to land the orbiter happened in the movie <i>Space Camp</i>. Not very accurate (especially with that stupid robot), but... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[lampblack]

I suspect that if something happened to either the commander or the pilot, the survivor could land the orbiter without assistance. That's probably the whole idea behind having two people sitting up front rather than just one. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[jimfromnsf]

Many mission specialists are regular pilots (aircraft). But if a shuttle loses the PLT or CDR, then anyone could take the other seat, just need someone for switch throws. Also one MS serves as a flight engineer for ascent and descent. <br /><br />It isn't as though the MS's are completely ignorant of cockpit procedures. <br /><br />There is no need for 3 pilots<br /><br />

 

[jschaef5]

the last few seconds of the mission is a bit more than switch throwing.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

From what I understand, it doesn't have to be.<br /><br />I believe the software and interface exists to land the Orbiter with no pilot input.<br /><br />The pilots choose to not do it that way, as they should.<br /><br />MW <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[usn_skwerl]

"theres no points for second place boys"<br /><br />F/A-18E/F and G Hornets can land on a carrier completely unassisted. the pilots never allow that to happen, unless absolutely necessary. (hasnt yet) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jimfromnsf]

"the last few seconds of the mission is a bit more than switch throwing"<br /><br />That's the crew's choice, however hands on is not required

 

[thereiwas]

Have they tried it hands-off at least once, to make sure it works?

 

[docm]

<font color="yellow">F/A-18E/F and G Hornets can land on a carrier completely unassisted</font><br /><br />Aviation Week article.... <br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><b>Super Hornet Demonstrates Unpiloted Approaches</b><br /><br />Jun 3, 2007<br /><br />By David A. Fulghum<br /><br />Researchers are analyzing data from the first "hands-off" live-fly operations around an aircraft carrier--information that could lead to a specially modified F/A-18F Super Hornet landing on a ship without a pilot touching the controls in as little as two years.<br /><br />A pair of Boeing test pilots just completed a series of unannounced landing approaches and waveoffs with the USS Harry S. Truman operating near Norfolk, Va., on May 17-18. They closed to within 420 ft. of the carrier before conducting a ship-controlled waveoff. The test aircraft--the first two-seat F/A-18F built--has been reconfigured as a surrogate unmanned combat air system (UCAS). The project parallels the company's effort to design a demonstrator for the Navy's UCAS-D competition. However, company officials contend the demonstration wasn't designed specifically for the competition or for Boeing's new X-45N design.<br /><br />The test was aimed at validating three crucial areas: networking of advanced radios between the aircraft carrier and aircraft, autonomous flight of dark and bad-weather carrier traffic patterns, and integration of aircraft position data into the shipboard air traffic controller's console.<br /><br />After government officials canceled the Air Force's UCAS program in favor of a new manned bomber, they directed Boeing to work on a Navy-only effort.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"We made a company decision to leverage everything we'd learned [into] a surrogate UCAS-D demonstration using</font></p></blockquote> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jimfromnsf]

"Have they tried it hands-off at least once, to make sure it works"<br /><br />Nope, but the astronauts are basing their control inputs on computer guidance symbols

 

[vt_hokie]

<font color="yellow"><i>I should note that one example in fiction where a non-experience person had to land the orbiter happened in the movie Space Camp. </i></font><br /><br />Worst Movie Ever!!!

 

[docm]

You never saw Battlefield Earth, did you? <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[vt_hokie]

<font color="yellow"><i>You never saw Battlefield Earth, did you?</i></font><br /><br />Thankfully, no! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[bpcooper]

There have been a few MS' who became pilots. I do not know if they had already received some sim time before their first flight. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-Ben</p> </div>

 

[hewes]

Charlie Precourt served as a mission specialist on STS-55. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rocketscientist327]

shuttle_guy said: "Only down to touchdown minus 30 sec. (STS-3) which is another story......"<br /><br />Don't leave a man hanging, what was so bad on STS-3? I read about the toilet malfunction and the APU dying out... What else?<br /><br />Respectfully,<br />Rocket Scientist 327

 

[jschaef5]

bad PIO on landing <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>PIO (Pilot Induced Oscillation)<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Note: In fly-by-wire planes, the term is "Pilot <font color="yellow">Involved</font>Oscillation." I don't know if Columbia used fly-by-wire for STS-3 or not. The term came into vogue after the YF-22 crash. That crash was due to the computer ending up in the wrong mode. It wanted to land -- even with the gear up. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[rocketscientist327]

shuttle_guy,<br /><br />#1 You are a national treasure. Your information on these boards is just frigging incredible!<br /><br />#2 How long was Columbia down for?<br /><br />#3 Is there a full length video of the STS-3 landing, just not the short 32 second version?<br /><br />Respectfully,<br />Rocket Scientist 327

 

[jschaef5]

"Note: In fly-by-wire planes, the term is "Pilot Involved Oscillation." I don't know if Columbia used fly-by-wire for STS-3 or not. The term came into vogue after the YF-22 crash. That crash was due to the computer ending up in the wrong mode. It wanted to land -- even with the gear up. "<br /><br /><br />Wrong, even in aircraft today it is called "pilot induced oscillation" and the yf-22 crash was because the gains were in up and away mode while the pilot was landing (gear was up) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jimfromnsf]

The shuttles are fly by wire

 

[jimfromnsf]

"#2 How long was Columbia down for? "<br /><br />There was no damage due to the landing. But there was delayed due to the gypsum dust that got into everywhere<br />

 

[drwayne]

When that stuff gets wet, it turns into something akin to cement...<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[docm]

Other uses; drywall, plaster, Tofu and Twinkies <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[windnwar]

See I knew there was a reason i didn't like tofu or twinkies! <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font size="2" color="#0000ff">""Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein"</font></p> </div>