Falcon I First Flight: 25th November 1pm PDT

[mikejz]

From what i read it appears that SpaceX does have a limited LOX factory on the island, however whatever valve problem they had appears to of let more LOX vent then they had capacity to replace. I guess this means that they have a capability of dealing with normal boil off, but not leaks or other problems.

 

[najab]

><i>CNN can get live video out of a hole in the ground with a backpack of equipment...</i><p>(a) That's CNN, an organisation whose <b>only</b> reason for existence is broadcasting; and (b) it takes a bit more than a backpack's worth of equipment - CNN owns transponder space on satellites in every region of coverage and billions of dollars worth of uplink equipment, SpaceX does not.</p>

 

[mikejz]

True.<br /><br />I was always under the impression that most of the satellite uplink side of broadcasting had been outsourced to 3rd parties. Most major events I have been to feature rented uplink equipment and crews.

 

[spacester]

Well you know, if you're going to have low cost launch operations, you're going to make certain value-engineering decisions in areas where a big gummint program would go the other way.<br /><br />Also, I wouldn't be surprised if they plan to have more LOX storage at Kwaj in the future, but didn't get it in place yet for various cost-related reasons. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[aaron38]

NajaB asked: "Quick question for those who might know: have SpaceX blown anything up yet in their development program?"<br /><br />In a Discover mag article a few months ago with Elon Musk, he mentioned that the Merlin engine development had it's share of RUD events. Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly!!<br /><br />He didn't elaborate beyond that.

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"There was not enough for 2 launch attempts for a new vehicle from a new pad..."</font><br /><br />I agree that this seems odd, but then this was their first ever launch attempt and it's not unreasonable to expect some misjudgements. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[dobbins]

Space travel is a lot harder than many people think, that is a lesson that SpaceX has been learning for some time.<br /><br />People blast NASA for having an "Army" of people standing by for each launch, but US Launches weren't always done like that, they started out with very few people launching V2s long before there was a NASA. Over time they found out just how many things can go wrong when attempting a launch and every time they did they wound up up with more people to handle those problems.<br /><br />

 

[cretan126]

SpaceX has been very verbal about their sucesses, but a bit more coy about their failures. They did have a RUD on the Merlin engine that was reported on Space.com back in September <br /><br />http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/050914_spacex_snag.html<br /><br />Elon was reportedly quite irritated that this information was 'leaked'.

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"Over time they found out just how many things can go wrong when attempting a launch and every time they did they wound up up with more people to handle those problems."</font><br /><br />Well, I'm not going to "blast" NASA's standing army, but at the same time it is not necessary to create another position every time a new possible problem is discovered. Even Dr. Griffin has suggested that NASA has too many people and that for the VSE to have a reasonable chance of success some of those positions are going to have to be eliminated.<br /><br />I believe SpaceX understands this and is trying to maintain a standing platoon rather than a standing army. He may discovery it takes two platoons, but that is just part of the learning experience he is undergoing. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[mikejz]

I would argue that fact that SpaceX is a private company, and you have workers who could quite possibly happily put in unpaid OT or work on something that is not in there job decription might go a VERY long way in explaining the ability to do it with a smaller size.<br /><br />Also, he built the ground handling from stratch. No legacy means no old 8088 computers in the chain.

 

[darkenfast]

The Falcon I is a SMALL rocket. It is akin to launching a Redstone missile back in the days when the Army actually launched that kind of rocket in the field. It is apples and oranges to compare it with larger and more complex vehicles. While the launch scrub is embarassing for them, I suspect this rocket will eventually fly. I believe they have positioned themselves nicely for this size market. I'm not so sure about their prospects in the larger categories (a crowded field with limited customers).

 

[mikejz]

Update from SpaceX Website:<br /><br />Posted December 7, 2005: The new launch date is approximately December 20, depending on when the Missile Defense Agency testing is complete. As soon as we have a firm time, it will be posted on the SpaceX website. <br /><br />Liquid Oxygen<br />Regarding liquid oxygen (LOX) supplies, we expect to have enough on hand this time to fill the rocket four or five times over. This should account for almost any issue with a particular storage tank as well as an extended hold on the pad. There is an engineering term known as a s*load. I have asked that we have at least two s*loads on hand in case one s*load is not enough.<br /> <br />We chartered a C-17 to fly two of our empty high quality LOX containers to Hawaii, sourced another high quality LOX container on Hawaii and put all three on the barge to Kwajalein. In addition, our LOX plant on Kwajalein has been repaired and is producing LOX on island again. <br /> <br />Some might be wondering why we were so dumb as to run out of LOX on a remote tropical island on the last launch attempt. Believe me, we tried hard to avoid it, but several issues conspired to create the problem:<br />The additional month of Merlin testing resulted in additional LOX boil-off on island. Even though it is stored in vacuum jacketed containers, LOX at -300F degrees does not like being on a tropical island at 85F. <br />The SpaceX LOX plant on island broke down a few weeks prior to launch, which meant we could not top up. <br />We ordered replacement LOX from Hawaii, but the container quality was poor, so only 20% of what we ordered actually arrived. <br />Ground winds were unusually high on launch day, which amplifies the boil-off rate significantly, since the Falcon's first stage LOX tank is uninsulated. <br />All of the above would not have mattered if our final storage tank did not have a small, manual vent valve incorrectly in the open position. Somewhat agonizingly, we were only a few percent away from being

 

[nacnud]

First flight gremlins rather than design problems, good good. Thanks for the update.

 

[comga]

spacester said <br />Also, I wouldn't be surprised if they plan to have more LOX storage at Kwaj in the future, but didn't get it in place yet for various cost-related reasons.<br /><br />Here is Elon Musk's answer from the above quote from the website<br /><br />Regarding liquid oxygen (LOX) supplies, we expect to have enough on hand this time to fill the rocket four or five times over. This should account for almost any issue with a particular storage tank as well as an extended hold on the pad. There is an engineering term known as a s*load. I have asked that we have at least two s*loads on hand in case one s*load is not enough.

 

[spacefire]

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[najab]

Did you read the thread before you posted?

 

[strandedonearth]

"There is an engineering term known as a s*load. I have asked that we have at least two s*loads on hand in case one s*load is not enough. "<br /><br />Love those concise engineering terms! <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

 

[holmec]

Is this do or die for Falcon 1 ? <br /><br />I like this statement:<br /> />Musk explains in a statement the unusual set of circumstances that led to the liquid oxygen loss.<<br /><br />Classic<br /><br />Lol I hope he doesn't say that this isn't rocket science. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[josh_simonson]

No, Elon says he can afford 3 failures, so its "Do or do or do or die."