Has NASA ever lost contact with a Space Shuttle?

[galt]

I'm writing a fictional story where this happens. Obviously communication was lost with Challenger and Columbia - but is communication loss a common occurance?Does it happen for a few hours here or there, or is NASA always in communique with the shuttles?<br /><br />Thanks!

 

[trailrider]

I believe NASA called up to Atlantis that there would be a one-minute dropout in communications during this morning's launch. With the TDRS and various other links, plus coverage by Russian tracking stations during ISS rendezvous, etc., there are probably no lengthy LOS. But, as I am not an expert on this subject, I could be wrong. But I don't think it would be hours unless there was a severe problem at one of the ground tracking stations...or, possibly damage or failure of several antenna systems on board. Do it like Hollyweird does it in most technically based movies...fake it, and most folks won't know the difference! <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br />BTW, Shuttle stories are getting a bit passe, aren't they? Why not go for a story about Orion?<br /><br />Ad Luna! Ad Ares! Ad Astra!

 

[qso1]

NASA is pretty much always in communication with shuttles. Occasional dropouts are generally known of in advance and last no more than a minute or so IIRC. The continuous communications are accomplished largely through the TDRS network which replaced much of the ground communications networks of the Apollo era. The shuttle takes approximately 90 minutes to complete each orbit of the earth and there are at least 1 or 2 TDRS sats within the communications range during each shuttle orbit.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TDRS<br /><br />But being that your looking at writing a book, don't let too much factual stuff get in the way of a good story. A lot of what has been written about the shuttle or any space undertaking is a mix of fiction and fact. Look at Armaggedon...the "Diehard" of space.<br /><br />Good luck with your story. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[nyarlathotep]

>"Do it like Hollyweird does it in most technically based movies...fake it, and most folks won't know the difference!"<br /><br />Well, just have Alan Rickman (involved in yet another terrorist plot on christmas eve) airburst a large nuke above both the TDRSS ground stations at White Sands and the backup at Guam.

 

[JonClarke]

The only problem is that by most counts "Armaggedon" is not considered a good story! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Most action flics are formula movies. I don't know how well Armaggedon did at the B.O. I saw it and when I consider its fictional and the science lacking. It's okay. Probably not a particularly good story but since Bruce Willis, Liv Tyler, and other major actors were in it...producers probably figured it would do well. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Formulaic is probably why I don't like most action movies <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[earth_bound_misfit]

"setup was mis performed which caused the loss of comm for 30 min or so. Until the crew corrected the switch positions."<br /><br />It must be terribly easy for the Close Out Crew to knock switchs by the looks of it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>

 

[jammers]

You could try setting the story before the TDRS network was launched, when the ground stations were still in use. I don't know how long the gaps in communication were then (though I'm sure someone here does), but you could always use a bit of artistic license if they're not long enough for your purposes.

 

[earth_bound_misfit]

Yeah, maybe something knocks out comms by changing the Ionoishpere, such as HAARP or Nuclear war. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>

 

[nyarlathotep]

Just launching a cruise missile at each of the ground stations would do it.

 

[earth_bound_misfit]

"Just launching a cruise missile at each of the ground stations would do it."<br /><br />That would need a lot of missles. Out of interest how many ground stations are used ? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>

 

[earth_bound_misfit]

Thanks SG, interesting stuff. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>

 

[nyarlathotep]

For the TDRSS, three. Two in White Sands, one in Guam. If you also airburst Kennedy, that should put NASA in such a panic that they wont be able to reestablish communications using other methods.<br /><br />With communications out there's no way for them to warn the astronauts of the terrible threat onboard. Thousands of venomous snakes... on a spaceplane.

 

[PistolPete]

<font color="yellow">Thousands of venomous snakes... on a spaceplane</font><br /><br />I'm tired of these mother****ing snakes floating around this mother****ing spaceplane!<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Don't you mean Houston? Kennedy is the launch site. Once the orbiter clears the tower, they go home. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[erioladastra]

"There was one flight when the on board comm. setup was mis performed which caused the loss of comm for 30 min or so. Until the crew corrected the switch positions. "<br /><br />You can also have unexepected TDRS outages. But you will have to stretch things - except for a possible HST mission, remaining Shuttle missions will be to ISS and while closing in or docked you have a whole other set of comm equipment.

 

[erioladastra]

"3"<br /><br />4 - JSC has some facilities that have been used to directly communicate.

 

[lampblack]

<font color="yellow">For the TDRSS, three. Two in White Sands, one in Guam. If you also airburst Kennedy, that should put NASA in such a panic that they wont be able to reestablish communications using other methods. <br /><br />With communications out there's no way for them to warn the astronauts of the terrible threat onboard. Thousands of venomous snakes... on a spaceplane.</font><br /><br />If bad guys managed to somehow take out those TDRSS ground stations, no doubt there are other ground-based facilities still available that they could use to communicate during shuttle fly-overs -- just like in the old days.<br /><br />Although Houston takes over the management of the missions after takeoff, I do believe NASA can communicate with the shuttle from either KSC or Houston. (I'm remembering that Houston was going to send a skeleton crew to KSC to communicate with the shuttle if Hurricane Ernesto hit Mission Control.)<br /><br />If both Houston and KSC got taken out by a tsunami or evil space cooties or whatnot, one assumes the military has an an assortment of communications facilities that could be brought to bear.<br /><br />If the cooties infested the entire country including the military space communications infrastructure, NASA could probably borrow the use of some Russian communications equipment in a pinch. Given all the cooperative work on ISS, it'd likely be no problem for the Russians to contact the shuttle, too, if nobody in the United States was able to do it.<br /><br />Of course, if the space cooties took out everything, that would mean simply that Armegeddon was upon us -- and reestablishing contact with the shuttle would be somewhere down on the list of problems that needed addressing.<br /><br />But human ingenuity being what it is, there are probably backup options that even the experts haven't thought of yet. Of course, it would be hugely preferable if things never came to that. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[ambrous]

IIRC, In the early days, the Soviets would regularly go without communication for 8-9 hours at a time. This was due to the lack of com stations other than in the USSR.

 

[ambrous]

I have read in several different places that early Soviet capsules would go for hours without contact. Here is a link to such a reference. Is it incorrect?<br /><br />"Ground controllers told Komarov to try and get some sleep. He would be orbiting out of contact with ground control for the next 9 hours."<br /><br />http://www.earthtothemoon.com/apollo_7.html

 

[erioladastra]

I think S_G misread. Yes, the Soviets and Russians can go for significant inetrvals with no comm. Ironically, at the start of ISS, they laughed at the US for wanting nearly continuous comm with the TDRSS. They couldn't understand why we wouldn't just use their assets. Now, they are CONSTANTLY using our assets! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Ironically, at the start of ISS, they laughed at the US for wanting nearly continuous comm with the TDRSS. They couldn't understand why we wouldn't just use their assets. Now, they are CONSTANTLY using our assets!<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />It is rather amusing, but I can see their position. If you've gone just fine for decades without a fancy-schmancy TDRS network; why waste the money on it? But if it's available at somebody else's cost, you're going to get hooked on it pretty quick. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Heck, once upon a time, I laughed at always-on Internet. Now I get mad if my router flakes out for fifteen seconds. <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[erioladastra]

Now it is that there is no Ku so they can't call on their IP phone...

 

[nyarlathotep]

Perhaps they need to dangle an Inmarsat RBGAN antenna out the airlock. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />