Hawkins admits to being wrong, information can escape a black hole

[rlb2]

Thanks for that information, It is very important to get the name right if you are going to cite someone’s work.<br /><br /><font color="black">The speed of dark <font color="white">= The inverse of the speed of light.<br /><br />Without mass there would be no light, without light there would be no dark, without space-time there would be no mass, without something there would be no nothing.<br /><br />Since gravity permeates through all mass / space-time then a logical conclusion to this would be mass is made out of the fabric of space-time, gravity is just a geometric causality.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">If then not why, then why not?<br /></font></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[search]

No mention guys I am always getting his name wrong anyway.<br />Thanks for the first answer to what is the speed of dark? I will keep a note on it.

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">Thanks for the first answer to what is the speed of dark?<font color="white"><br /><br />Hopefully it is illuminating enough to weather the storm that may be developing in the voids of darkness.<br /><br />Here is some more information on BH?<br /><br /><font color="yellow">NASA scientists and their international partners using the new Japanese Suzaku satellite have collected a startling new set of black hole observations, revealing details of twisted space and warped time never before seen with such precision. <br /><br />The observations include clocking the speed of a black hole's spin rate and measuring the angle at which matter pours into the void, as well as evidence for a wall of X-ray light pulled back and flattened by gravity. <br /><br />The findings rely on a special feature in the light emitted close to the black hole, called the "broad iron K line," once doubted by some scientists because of poor resolution in earlier observations, now unambiguously revealed as a true measure of a black hole's crushing gravitational force. This technique can be exploited in future X-ray missions. <br /><br />http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=21003<br /><br /></font></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[search]

Very interesting rib2<br />The galaxies they are refering:<br />MCG-6-30-15 and MCG-5-23-16<br /><br />Suzaku Observations<br /><br />Here are the video simulations:<br /><br />Supermassive black holes are a prime target for Suzaku. These are voids in the center of most galaxies containing the mass of millions to billions of suns, all confined within a region about the size of our solar system. The black hole itself emits no light, but the process of accreting matter causes the entire region to be extremely bright in all wavelengths. Close to the edge of a black hole, X-rays are the dominant wavelength. Suzaku is sensitive to the X-ray energies emitted close to supermassive black holes, such as quasars. Click here (2.6 Mb -- no audio). Credit: NASA/GSFC <br /><br />Zoom into the center of a spiral galaxy to reveal a black hole. Cutaway of accretion disks reveals inside of the black hole. The chaotic black hole activity is hard to discern. />From our perspective, all activity is enshrouded in dust and gas in a region that's only a pinpoint a few light-years across in the center of a galaxy hundreds of thousands of light-years across, all typically hundreds of millions of light-years from Earth. The Suzaku satellite is sensitive to key X-ray energies that enable scientists to discern properties of the black hole. Some X-rays are emitted at the edge of the black hole; others are reflected off of dust clouds several light-years away. Suzaku provides the most complete picture of this black hole activity, and when combined with optical and radio observations, even more can be learned.http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/mpeg/159681main_blackho</safety_wrapper

 

[toothferry]

since black holes leak "hawking's radiation", and ultimately information and matter, is it also possible that our universe in general could be "leaking" as well.. maybe that could be an explanation for the continued accelerated expansion of the universe...

 

[yevaud]

Per Hawking, they do not "leak information" in the sense you mean. There is no organized information departing a Singularity. It's all noise. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[toothferry]

so you are saying information can't escape,.. in what appears to be "noise" (nothing can be inferred about the singularity from that noise.. perhaps for the one thing the mass can be inferred. anyhow, the title of the tread says, "Hawkins admits to being wrong, information can escape...

 

[yevaud]

Yes, but if you read what he says closely, it's random and disorganized, and so useless as a means to decipher what is occurring beneath the Event Horizon. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[ldyaidan]

Hawking is a brilliant, well-respected scientist. The fact that he can admit, in public "Hey, I was wrong" gives him even more respect in my book. Wish more people had that kind of strength of character<br /><br />Never understood those who would rather bash others than make actual contributions to a discussion.<br /><br />Rae

 

[search]

"In physics, light loses energy when it moves away from a massive body such as a star or a black hole; this effect reveals itself as a gravitational redshift in the frequency of the light, and is observable as a shift of spectral lines towards the red end of the spectrum. Gravitational redshift is sometimes known as the Einstein effect, although that is not the only meaning applied to that term. <br />Light coming from a region of weaker gravity shows a gravitational blueshift."

 

[casualphilosoph]

Hmm I do not know about the quantum states of the matter forced into a black hole, but atleast the energy density would<br />influence the creation of virtual particles and such the distribution of Hawking radiation right? <br />So some information would leak even before the death of a black hole.

 

[search]

The only fact pertaining this thread subject is that S.H. used a conference for his "act of contrition" but I still did not see any scientific report about it. <br />Science is becaming a show...and that sells.

 

[kyle_baron]

Thanks for the article. It's very interesting; a violation of Einstein's principle of equivalence.<br /><font color="yellow"><br />The “something else” I favor is that EP is not violated but rather that the constant of proportionality, k, is a function instead that is constant under most classical circumstances measured by Eotvos. The additional acceleration is due to accumulation of additional quantum states beyond stable pointer states that do not decohere associated with the Eotvos ratio. These might be rare Cat states that only persist in cold environments or sturdier longer wavelength states associated with chaos and finite Lyapunov times. </font><br /><br />Huh? In layman's terms PLEASE. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[methanebubbles]

what is information? I'm guessing it isn't the kind of information you get in an email. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> and we are all undeniably selfish. </div>

 

[alokmohan]

mass ,charge .Mass remains same as per classical theory.Hawkning stated mass loses ,black hole evaporates.Now thread tells new.No

 

[alokmohan]

Kip and Penrose are right.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Rather nebulous stuff to my mind, but so much in the nether world of singularities is <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Gawd, I wish the OP would correct the spelling of Hawkings' name. It jars me every time this thread is revived <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>