Is there oil on Mars?

[ordinary_guy]

This comes as a bit of a surprise to me:<br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>...so Mars has McDonald's cheeseburgers too.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />A "Starbucks" I could understand, but a McDonalds...? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p style="font:normalnormalnormal12px/normalTimes;margin:0px"><strong>Mere precedent is a dangerous source of authority.</strong></p> <p style="font:normalnormalnormal12px/normalTimes;margin:0px">-Andrew Jackson (1767-1845)</p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

Kerogen-like substances compose the bulk of the organic material in some carbonaceous chondrites.<br /><br />Kerogen (or a similar material) is also believed to occur on some of the D type asteroids. <br /><br />The Cassini Regio area on Iapetus also exhibits a spectral match to some D type asteroids.<br /><br />(keep in mind here, the use of the term organic simply means 'contains carbon')<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[jatslo]

Okay, so what do we know so far?<br /><br />Earth is a Planet with oil reservoirs, water, McDonald’s cheeseburgers, Starbucks. Jupiter, Venus, and Mars do not have McDonald’s cheeseburgers, and Starbucks. Mars possibly has water reservoirs, which is a Planet Earth like characteristic, so Mars might also have oil reservoirs too, right? <font color="orange">Oil is a generic term for organic liquids that are not miscible with water ( REFERENCE )</font> so any oil discovered on Mars would prove that organics flourished on Mars, right? Finally, Jupiter and Venus are not Earth like.

 

[slayera]

<font color="yellow"> slayerA said: “but I thought there was some evidence or at least a suggestion that oil came from comets”<br /><br />Earth contains water, and comets contain water. Earth contains oil, so comets contain oil. You might be onto something, slayerA, so keep plugging away. </font><br /><br />That is not what I am saying, but I understood comets to contain organic compounds. I maybe way off base here and I don't believe or expect oil on Mars. Just putting forth a thought.

 

[jatslo]

<font color="yellow">I understood comets to contain organic compounds</font><br /><br />Earth has water, organics, and oil; comets have water, so comets also might contain organics and oil, because Earth and comets are similar in terms of water; therefore, they might also be similar in terms of oil and organics too, right?<br /><br />I am pretty sure that is a valid argument, and its a good one. I was not making fun of you.

 

[centsworth_II]

I THINK that jatslo is being an ass. Pay him no mind. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

That stuff in carbonaceous chondrites is kerogen like, but not true kerogen in the terrestrial sense, which is istopically fractionated, handed, and contains biomarkers. But if you had enough of it and cooked it at the right temps you would get oil. Titan is a possible place whwere this might happen, although their the organics are indigenous rather than imported.<br /><br />The problem with this happening on Mars is that the surface appears very descruptive to organic matter, at least at present, and so far there has been no evidence of accumulation of organics, whether meteoritic or biologic in the sedimentary record.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[yevaud]

<i>(keep in mind here, the use of the term organic simply means 'contains carbon') </i><br /><br />Well, not quite. By "Organics." they mean complex organics, such as aldehydes, Ribose, Deoxyribose, Dihxydroxyacetone, Glycerol, and so on. Not life, certainly, but neccessary precursors to it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[mooware]

<font color="yellow">My point is that "HIGHLY UNLIKELY" is a statistical probability that is baseless without evidence.<br /><br />Earth is a planet with reservoirs of oil, and Mars is a planet, so Mars has reservoirs of oil too.</font><br /><br />A little contradiction in your logic isn't there?<br /><br />

 

[vogon13]

Your phrasing is better, I just didn't want to come across as claiming the kerogen like substances implied dead dinosaur carcasses on Iapetus. Such is the state of some parts of SDC these days.......<br /><br /><br />Sigh.<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

Weird how certain words you almost never use suddenly turn up in several threads.<br /><br />This weeks word: carcasses.<br /><br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[yevaud]

Isn't *that* the truth.<br /><br />Medical phrase for the day: Mononuclear leukocytes. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

Errrf!<br /><br />Sounds lethal.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[jatslo]

Where? Please correct me, so that I may learn.

 

[yevaud]

Edited. Typed slightly the wrong first word.<br /><br />White blood cells. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[mooware]

Jats.. You're using the same type of logic you are accusing CraxyEddie of..<br /><br />

 

[jatslo]

Where? How?

 

[jatslo]

crazyeddie said: "<font color="yellow">Marcel, stop being such an ass. How could anyone construe me stating my opinion that oil on Mars is unlikely as a LIE? "Highly unlikely" means just that.....it does not mean "impossible". It doesn't mean I'm the last word on the subject. What it does mean is that we have a fairly good idea of how oil forms on Earth. It is the product of decayed organic material subjected to tectonic forces of heat and pressure. Since it is believed that Mars never possessed the lush biosphere was thas required for oil formation on Earth, that means the chances of oil developing on Mars is greatly diminished. Nothing more. Nothing less. <br /><br />You have a long history of aptly demonstrating a poor understanding of science or critical thinking, so knock off the belligerent blather, if you please.</font>; quote, and unquote.<br /><br />You sir, have a longer history of claiming to be the foremost authority in multitudes of matters, when in fact, you are not. The terminology "Highly Unlikey" is baseless without evidence to back up your claim, so I ask you to either revise your statement and give a formal apology for your obvious intentional or unintentional <b>LIE</b>, or provide evidence to support your "Highly Unlikely" claim.<br /><br />This should not be too much of a problem for someone who possesses an educated mind, like the one you claim to possess.<br /><br /><i><b>EVIDENCE:</b></i><br /><br /><font color="orange"><font color="white"><b>Statistics</b></font>is a type of data analysis which practice includes the planning, summarizing, and interpreting of observations of a system possibly followed by predicting or http://en.wikipedia.org/wi</safety_wrapper</font>

 

[jatslo]

Clearly you are someone who is in possession of an uneducated mind, because you lack the ability to rationalize. You are irrational, illogical, and should not be taken seriously. Your inaction is testament.

 

[jatslo]

stevehw33 said: "<font color="yellow">Given current evidence, there is no reason to believe that Mars contains any petroleum, nor natural gas deposits, NOR coal</font>; quote, and unquote.<br /><br /><br /><b>Argument:</b><br /><br />Given current <b>lack of</b> evidence to the contrary, there is no reason to believe that Mars <b>is absent</b> of petroleum, natural gas , OR coal.

 

[jatslo]

FinBob said: <font color="yellow">So, is there oil on Mars and can MARSIS detect it?</font><br /><br /><font color="orange">An underground zone of liquid water will have very different electrical properties from the surrounding rocks and it will reflect very strongly. Scientists should be able to see the top of a liquid zone somewhere in the upper 2-3 kilometers (1-2 miles) fairly easily, and may be able to go down to 5 km (about 3 miles) or more. The radio waves will be reflected at any interface, not just that between rock and water, so <font color="white"><b>MARSIS should reveal much about the composition of the top 5 kilometers (about 3 miles) of crust in general</b></font> It should, for example, pick out layers of rock interspersed with ice, which are more likely to exist close to the Martian surface than liquid water. Scientists should be able to measure the thickness of sand deposits in sand dune areas, or determine whether there are layers of sediment sitting on top of other material in areas hypothesised to be the sites of ancient lakes or oceans. They may even see the boundaries between different lava flows ( REFERENCE ). </font><br /><br /><font color="orange">Oil is a generic term for organic liquids that are not miscible with water ( REFERENCE ).</font><br /><br />Well I cannot find anything on the electrical properties of oil; however, oil and water are both liquids, and the MARSIS is pinging for liquid water, so it is plausible that the MARSIS could detect reservoirs of oil too, but I am not sure. Composition might suggest reservoirs of something other than water. That is a damn good question that I want to know the answer to myself.<br /><br />Crazyeddie said, “<font color="yellow"> Marcel, unless you are seriously mentally deranged, and therefore can't h</font>

 

[jatslo]

Everyone can see that you are twisting the words to serve your own special interest, but that will not save you, because you screwed the pooch, crazyeddie, and everyone knows now, that you are incapable of thinking critically, and that you should not be taken seriously.

 

[jatslo]

Majority does not take precedence over the minority opinion, because history will show that majority opinion has been on the wrong side before, so it is possible that the majority opinion in this case, is also on the wrong side.

 

[jatslo]

stevehw33 said, "<font color="yellow">Given the lack of evidence, isn't logically the same as Given current evidence. "Given NO current evidence" would be. But logically, a negative is not equivalent to a positive. That's where your reasoning, as usual, falls down</font>; quote, and unquote.<br /><br />I chose lack of evidence, because I did not want to be called to action. My choice was a tactical decision, so that I could push the responsibility regarding “Burden of Proof” back onto my opponent. I have already made my case, with sufficient evidence to boot. However, I see the logic in your words.

 

[centsworth_II]

<font color="yellow">"Majority does not take precedence over the minority opinion..."</font><br />You are making up words and meanings that were not in the post you are responding to.<br /><br />If english is not your first language, I sympathise with you and would applaud your efforts if they were not so abusive of common sense and civility. If english is your first language, I sympathise all the more. <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>