Is there oil on Mars?

jatslo · Sep 12, 2005

Star Star Star Star

jatslo · Sep 12, 2005

-infinty + infinity + (Make Jatslo a Star) = Jatslo's a Star

vogon13 · Sep 12, 2005

Don't really see the D type impacts as leaving behind the type of residue that Marsis could detect. Woke up this morning thinking about the high chloride content from some of the rover results and wondered about salt domes........ <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

jatslo · Sep 12, 2005

vogon13 said, "Don't really see the D type impacts as leaving behind the type of residue that Marsis could detect. Woke up this morning thinking about the high chloride content from some of the rover results and wondered about salt domes. Jatslo said, "By George, the residual evidence says that there is oil on Mars <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />. What is the significance of “high chloride content and "salt domes to petroleum (e.g. Methane, Oil, Natural Gas, etc.) on Mars?"

vogon13 · Sep 12, 2005

To continue thought, could MARSIS discern a salt dome formation? I also was wondering if any pluton type structures have been seen and if MARSIS would detect them. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

JonClarke · Sep 12, 2005

MARSIS could probably detect salt dome like structures. Are there such structures on Mars? Don't know. We do have evaporites 100's of metres thick. But you need several km of salt buried to that sort of depth to get domes on earth. You might need even greater depths on Mars, because of the lower gravity. You need graviational loading to get salt to flow, forming domes. That's maybe my last comment for a while, I am away for most of the next two weeks. Might be able to sneak the odd post or two. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

vogon13 · Sep 12, 2005

Perhaps a buried salt dome (or something even more interesting) would be revealed slowly by wind eroding the overlying terrain (is terrain the right word for Mars?). Perhaps we would find crater bottoms collecting salt, then having the crater rim collapse and modifying the salt layer. Instead of domes, might yield rings or such. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

JonClarke · Sep 12, 2005

It probably could. Salt domes are often identified on earth by their collars of upturned rock and their collapsed centres. On Mars, with no rain, the salt would be a hill, rock salt is a very tough rock, apart from its unfortunate solubility Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

jatslo · Sep 15, 2005

stevehw33 said, "Each of us will have used in a single day, far more 'oil' than will ever be found on Mars. Jatslo said, "We will not make any progress, because you and people like you who are roadblocks that prevent real geniuses like Albert Einstein, and whoever else that has a means to speculate, to flex there imagination. You, Sir, are a SDC minion of misinformation and lies; therefore, you are counterproductive to forward progress, not I. You represent the force that blinds us; therefore, your mission objective is one of “Evil Agenda”, and I call on “Righteousness” to smite your pestilence behavior." STEVEHW33 ARROGANCE IGNORANCE PESTILENCE: RETALIATE THE LINE: OIL ON MARS OR NOT JATSLO RIGHTEOUSNESS: RETALIATE Jatslo said, " The line has been drawn that separates "Good versus Evil" and "Right versus Wrong"; like pieces in a puzzle, these minions proprogate these domains. The epic battle is sure to come, for their can only be one, in which that one is either right or wrong. The saga continues…" THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND: CHOOSE

finbob · Sep 15, 2005

I would like to thank all the people who send a reply. Very interesting reading. Thank you <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

jatslo · Sep 19, 2005

It is time to put the following information to a vote: Jatslo's response to stevehw33's last two volley's of spew: FinBob said: So, is there oil on Mars and can MARSIS detect it? Jatslo's Evidence: An underground zone of liquid water will have very different electrical properties from the surrounding rocks and it will reflect very strongly. Scientists should be able to see the top of a liquid zone somewhere in the upper 2-3 kilometers (1-2 miles) fairly easily, and may be able to go down to 5 km (about 3 miles) or more. The radio waves will be reflected at any interface, not just that between rock and water, so MARSIS should reveal much about the composition of the top 5 kilometers (about 3 miles) of crust in general It should, for example, pick out layers of rock interspersed with ice, which are more likely to exist close to the Martian surface than liquid water. Scientists should be able to measure the thickness of sand deposits in sand dune areas, or determine whether there are layers of sediment sitting on top of other material in areas hypothesised to be the sites of ancient lakes or oceans. They may even see the boundaries between different lava flows ( REFERENCE ). Oil is a generic term for organic liquids that are not miscible with water (

astrophoto · Sep 19, 2005

The only oil on Mars was deposited by alien spacecraft from that pesky planet Earth.

silylene old · Sep 19, 2005

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />silylene said, "It's almost certainly abiogenic" : Quote and, unquote. Jatslo said, "Unless you are privileged to scientific evidence that the rest of us lack, then I suggest you retract your "almost certainly" statement, because it is plausible that you are almost certainly stating your opinion as fact, Sir. If Earth is a planet with biological processes that manufacture "Methane", and Mars is a planet, then Mars too is a planet with biological processes that manufacture "Methane".": Quote, and unquote. <hr /></blockquote> Cool, I am in the legion of Jatslo detractors! I suggest that Jatslo read the various methane threads, where hyoptheses and explanations were debated in detail. Included on those threads are several refereed literature citations on abiogenic methane via photoreduction of CO2 over metal oxide dusts, and a more recent concept that methane is formed from the thermal decomposition of olivine deep under the Martian surface http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050531/full/050531-10.html . As far as Jatslo logic , that's an oxymoron. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center">I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function. </div> </div>

jatslo · Sep 19, 2005

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />Cool, I am in the legion of Jatslo detractors! I suggest that Jatslo read the various methane threads, where hyoptheses and explanations were debated in detail. Included on those threads are several refereed literature citations on abiogenic methane via photoreduction of CO2 over metal oxide dusts, and a more recent concept that methane is formed from the thermal decomposition of olivine deep under the Martian surface http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050531/full/050531-10.html . As far as Jatslo logic, that's an oxymoron. <hr /></blockquote> Who are you calling an oxymoron? You, Sir, have been hanging out with stevehw33 for far too long. SDC minion of misinformation - that link is a scam! I, unlike you, do not believe everything I read. There are two sources of Methane on Mars, one is biological; the other is not, and that goes double for OIL on Mars too. If any of those other threads are anything like this one, then you can bet the farm that the SDC minions of falsifications, misinformation, and lies were surely to blame for all the opinionated facts that were laid forth, and that is a fact. Besides, I am the only minion who provided evidence for both sides, WTF?!?

centsworth_II · Sep 20, 2005

"Cool, I am in the legion of Jatslo detractors!" I invite you to join the legion of Jatslo ignorers. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

devildogdad · Sep 20, 2005

After looking through his post I would like a life time membership please

paleo · Sep 20, 2005

"I invite you to join the legion of Jatslo ignorers" I've been a member for some time. Sometimes I print out some of his ravings and pass them around the lab just for fun. He's become a joke here. Whenever someone makes an error, etc. we say " It was a jatslo moment'....akin to the Darwin awards. The favorite jatslo saying is still: "Earth is a planet with reservoirs of oil, and Mars is a planet, so Mars has reservoirs of oil too". Just substitute 'cans of beans' for 'resevoirs of oil' or some other substitution to understand how his brain works.

jatslo · Sep 20, 2005

centsworth_II, DevilDogDad, and paleo - Careful children! That is right you all just stay right there and wag your tails like good little puppies, because if you stick your neck out here, the mighty Jatslo will lop it off, and I am not talking about the one between your ears. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> Ignorant fools! <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

centsworth_II · Sep 20, 2005

Did you hear something? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

paleo · Sep 20, 2005

My fear is his ramblings spread to one of the other science forums. Perhaps there's an anti-jatslo virus patch that can be installed.

kauboi · Sep 21, 2005

From time to time, it is a certainty that D-type asteroids (and their fragments) impact on Mars. As noted earlier, this variety contains a carbon rich substance similar to kerogen, a petroleum precursor. With the explosive impact dispersing the incoming asteroidal debris, and the Martian soil containing strong oxidizing substances, can we assert that everyone is correct to a degree? How much possibility on this becoming a trigger to life?

vogon13 · Sep 21, 2005

Any kerogen like material introduced to Mars needs to be sequestered from the oxidizers in the soil. Tough to set up a mechanism for doing this on a large scale. That the impact would 'inject' these materials into subsurface formations conducive to the circumstances you write about is quite interesting. Of course, we need more info for this. And with MARSIS we may get it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

jatslo · Sep 21, 2005

Hey vogon13 - The talk of Mars possibly warming, as in global warming, has me thinking again. Could permafrost that is melting, decomposing, decaying, etc. be the source of petroleum on Mars, and if so, then would we see an increase over time as the Red Planet warms further?

vogon13 · Sep 21, 2005

Tough to imagine an impact situation leading to the incorporation of the kerogen like material into permafrost and then being detectable. The blast would zap the surface ices, but the deeper (more interesting) layers of the frost may have the materials 'injected' into them from the blast wave. I assume the warming would affect the surface layers first, and the deeper layers where the 'interesting' chemicals might be would not be affected till much later. That interesting chemistry might occur at the base of the permafrost layer (warmer, wetter, kerogen presence(?)) would seem quite plausible, but proving it without going to Mars with a backhoe and digging a hole is the 'trick'. Mars gets more interesting everyday <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

rfoshaug · Sep 27, 2005

jatslo: "Star Star Star Star Star Star Star Star Star Star Star Star Star" Uh oh... he's gonna blow! Seriously losing it.

<div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ----------------------------------My minds have many opinions </div>

Is there oil on Mars?

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