ISRU links

[kelvinzero]

I have been looking around for a while for serious information about In-Situ Resource Utilisation. This is the most convincing I have found (specifically the 3 pdf titled ISRU..) even if it is an educational site that abbreviates to 'RASCAL'...<br /><br />http://www.sop.usra.edu/rasc-al/forum_2007/research.shtml<br /><br />Does anyone else have any valuable ISRU links?

 

[webtaz99]

www.permanent.com <br /><br />There's tons of speculation and poorly-informed "armchair engineering" out there, but suprisingly little real-world hardware or studies. Mostly it boils down to the fact that we have to go there and try.<br /><br />Example: We can make a material which somewhat mimics Lunar regolith, but real regolith has different properties. To even come close on Earth it takes a hard vacuum over several weeks to remove water and other volatiles, with periodic vibration to compact the grains. Who's going to provide a high-vacuum chamber big enough for an earth-mover?<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[kelvinzero]

Thanks for that link!<br /><br />"Who's going to provide a high-vacuum chamber big enough for an earth-mover?"<br /><br />Why, they can use the same site they faked all those moon landings on of course <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />.. <br /><br />But seriously, I saw a nasa letter somewhere asking the exact same thing (ie a call for companies to announce candidate faculties for large vacuum in situ experiments) ... sorry couldnt find it again. <br /><br />oh wait, here it is:<br />http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=21244<br />which links to:<br />http://procurement.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/eps/sol.cgi?acqid=121029#Other%2001

 

[nexium]

You know those machines with big brushes that sweep city streets. We could practice trying to make useful stuff from the street sweepings (and other unsorted trash) My guess is using regolith is no easier, but it can be done, perhaps not cost effectively. Neil

 

[webtaz99]

Sarcasm aside, there will of course be many challenges in using Lunar materials. Some are known, others will only become evident as we try. <br /><br />At the low end of the spectrum, Lunar regolith can be made into "bricks" simply by placing it in a mold and exposing it to concentrated sunlight. <br /><br />And compared to lifting mass from Earth, "cost effective" leaves a lot of room for development. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[kelvinzero]

I would also accept links about processing street sweepings. Human waste and junk is going to be one of the earliest and easiest resources to process.. but it probably wouldnt be cost effective to ship it up there <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[kelvinzero]

Or maybe not <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /><br /><br />How do you 'go' in space? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6640035.stm<br /><b>"The system separates solid and liquid waste. Solids are compressed and remain on-board to be unloaded after landing. Liquids are released into space. Nasa hopes one day to recycle waste productively."</b><br /><br />As an ISRU fanatic, I find this really depressing. I like to dream about building robots from moon materials, talk about elaborate schemes for generating air and fuel in-situ.. but after thirty years of LEO science, in an economy where mass costs several thousand/kg, we cant productively recycle human waste?

 

[bpfeifer]

NASA has developed a water reclaimation system that is designed to handle all waste water on spacecraft, including urine. I think they will be sending one up the the ISS at some point. The same system has been used by a non-profit in Iraq to get drinking water from contaminated village wells. <br /><br />I have a link for an article somewhere....I'll have to look for it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Brian J. Pfeifer http://sabletower.wordpress.com<br /> The Dogsoldier Codex http://www.lulu.com/sabletower<br /> </div>

 

[webtaz99]

The vast majority of folks I talk to seem to think that the ISS was used to demonstrate closed cycle life support, and that all the problems with closed cycle have been solved.<br /><br />Sadly, it isn't so. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

<The vast majority of folks I talk to seem to think that the ISS was used to demonstrate closed cycle life support, and that all the problems with closed cycle have been solved. Sadly, it isn't so.><br /><br />Well the devil is in the details.<br /><br />I believe the ISS uses a closed water cycle that recycles something like 90% of the water. Now clearly water alone is not a closed life support system. But even so water is most of the mass that a life support system must cope with.<br /><br />Something with the capacity of the ISS life support system is adequate for supporting relatively long missions such as a trip to Mars, without an overburdening mass.

 

[gunsandrockets]

<Does anyone else have any valuable ISRU links?><br /><br />Here's a good document about ISPP on Mars<br /><br />http://www.cbqc.net/mars/docs/in-situ.doc<br /><br />

 

[bpfeifer]

The ISS makes collects and makes use of water, but it is not a closed loop. The Elektron takes waste water and breaks it into hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen is vented overboard, and the oxygen is added to the cabin atmosphere. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Brian J. Pfeifer http://sabletower.wordpress.com<br /> The Dogsoldier Codex http://www.lulu.com/sabletower<br /> </div>

 

[webtaz99]

I have seen articles which say that solid wastes can be processed by microwave pyrolysis. This removes all of the water and volatiles, while destroying all the microbes and leaving the ashes. The ashes can be collected, and processed further to remove any bad stuff and then used as raw material for fertilizer. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

<The ISS makes collects and makes use of water, but it is not a closed loop. The Elektron takes waste water and breaks it into hydrogen and oxygen. ><br /><br />The water recycling system of the ISS is more complicated than sending waste water to elektron.<br /><br />http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/images/eclss-air/cycle.gif<br /><br />The elektron draws from central water storage. Central water storage is supplied by recovery of water from the air and recovery of waste water, plus regular resupply from Earth.<br /><br />Don't get distracted by the use of water as an oxygen storage medium for air supply. Most of the mass that a crew consumes for life support comes from the ordinary consumption of water for washing, drinking and food preparation. Of ordinary water consumption, the ISS recycles most of that water.

 

[bpfeifer]

"Of ordinary water consumption, the ISS recycles most of that water."<br /><br />What system(s) recycle water on the ISS? I wasn't aware that this was highly developed at this point. And is this done primarily with US or Russian hardware? Thanks. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Brian J. Pfeifer http://sabletower.wordpress.com<br /> The Dogsoldier Codex http://www.lulu.com/sabletower<br /> </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

<And is this done primarily with US or Russian hardware?><br /><br />Since the oxygen generator is Russian I would guess the water recycling is Russian too. Probably a legacy of the long Russian investment in space station activities. <br /><br />UPDATE<br /><br />a quick google brought up this link...<br /><br />http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2004/nov/HQ_04372_water_recycling.html<br /><br />...from which I learned a couple things. First off it appears the ISS water recycling technology is actually American and not Russian. I'm glad to hear that. The second thing is that the water recycling equipment hasn't been fully installed yet in the ISS, though it will before the ISS construction is completed.

 

[kelvinzero]

no_way just posted this link in another thread. <br /><br />from the site:<br /><i>The Ninth Space Resources Roundtable was held at the Colorado School of Mines in October, 2007. <br /><br />Presentations made available from that conference may be viewed through the download links provided here.<br /></i> <br /><br />http://www.isruinfo.com/index.php?page=srr_9 <br /><br />Looked at a couple. hmmm.. what I really want to hear about is, for example, progress processing simulated regolith.

 

[no_way]

The entire Space Resources Roundtable website and isruinfo.com is worth digging through, they have some excellent presentations there.