Mars Settlement Financing

[paleo]

World lotteries? !<br /><br /> Why would any country approve such a concept? Hundreds of groups, mostly charities, apply for and are often declined lottery licenses in their own jurisdictions. Do you really believe that Montana will approve a lottery for a Mars fund when it turns down one for the Cancer Society? That the U.K. or France will see lottery money leave the country for a U.S. based Mars fund? The reason most states limit the amount of lotteries is because there is a limited pool of lottery users. A dollar for a ticket spent on a lotery raising money to build a new sports arena is a dollar less spent on a lottery to raise money for a children's hospital.<br /><br /> What planet (not yet Mars) are you living on?

 

[spacester]

Um, paleo, was that post aimed at me? Did you see the part where I said "MY PLAN IS NOT A LOTTERY"? It's right there in the middle of the opening post of the thread. It's true that I did quote the line "Don't give up on the lottery idea altogether", but I haven't yet explained why I did that.<br /><br />I agree with your reasons for why a lottery is not going to be the centerpiece of a successful space financing plan. There are elements that can be adapted, I've already hinted at them, but I get the impression you didn't actually read the thread before you posted, so I'm not eager to repeat myself for your benefit. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[grooble]

Just run it in some third world country that needs the tax money, and sell the tickets over the internet.

 

[quasar2]

darn, i accidentally deleted a long thread. please see my thread: "pedal on moon or mars". obviously there would be bugs to be worked out on something like this. but huntsville has had "Great moonbuggy race" for a number of years, & i don`t think that is serious enough effort. that concept can be taken quite a bit further. & in fact there are individuals who have. i`m eventually wanting to patent something along these lines so i`m going to reveal my entire plan. & like the idea of a possible non-profit aspect of this. because consider that individuals who would consider an eventual life choice of this sort would be on a different economic footing. here are some links to familiarize y`all w/ some of these concepts. www.microship.com www.kineticsculpturerace.org . i can`t find the exact link, but for approx 10 yrs there has been a pedal-powered submarine race which goes alternately @ San Diego & near Miami. these subs don`t go very far obviously & they are wet-type subs. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[spacester]

<font color="yellow">Question: What is the one activity of daily American life that is most often mentioned as a raison d'etre for space development? </font>/safety_wrapper> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[quasar2]

entertainment <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[dan_casale]

tourism.

 

[arobie]

Yes as quasar said, entertainment:<br /><br />Our satellite TVs, radio (that new satellite radio station), cell phones, etc...

 

[grooble]

All comes down to pleasure.

 

[spacester]

My observation has been that entertainment is put forward as a way to finance space development, not as a reason to do it.<br /><br />What I'm looking for is the activity that is so important and would be enhanced so much by space development that it is often mentioned as a solid justification for the investment needed to develop space beyond current comsats and other current hardware.<br /><br />Actually, I can think of two answers, one of which is military superiority. I'm looking for the other answer.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[quasar2]

development of cold fusion which would fall under cheap energy. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[arobie]

Spacester,<br /><br />Could it be learning, education, gaining of knowledge?<br /><br />Oh! How about dreaming big? Like setting high goals for yourself. Motivation for people.<br /><br />A mission like this would be a perfect motivating factor for children. It would motivate them to do well in school and life(a huge benefit to society) so that they could be a part of it one day. A settlement could give children the motivation to want to reach out for the stars, to improve humanity.

 

[spacester]

YES!<br /><br />more later . . . <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[grooble]

Yes, that's like i said in the other post, but geared toward improving adults.

 

[tap_sa]

<font color="yellow">"Just run it in some third world country that needs the tax money, and sell the tickets over the internet."</font><br /><br />IMHO a private space enterprise should consider having own private launch complex in some third world country. Strike a deal with local government and be your own FAA launching whenever you feel like it. My choise would the coast of Kenya, relatively stable country near equator, nice big ocean in the east.<br /><br />Other incomes, franchising! Franchising, more franchising and then some franchising. Build an image for the settlement, something that others want to use selling their products. Catchy names for the building blocks, ships, habitats, the mission. Imagine just the toy industry, if this thing really kicks off. TV covering the details of the mission, with Lego-ads for tehcnolego models of the crafts. Little boys crying all over the world "mommy, daddy, gotta have one!".

 

[dan_casale]

I'm not sure I can describe this correctly but here goes.<br />This is kind of a cross between survivor, the great race, and american idol. The prize for the best team/design is a journey to Mars.<br /><br />The contest is open to anyone who has thinks they can design three or more sub-systems. The contestants are divided up by sub-system. Groups of two hundred are formed by selecting 4 - 5 people from each sub-system group. This big group is then stuffed in to a warehouse that has been converted to 10'x10' rooms. The contestants are told to design their subsystems. They are told not to collaborate but that rule is never enforced.<br /><br />What should happen: The people designing like sub-systems will get together and collaborate. Then teams should form that represent the entire spectrum of colony systems.<br /><br />Initially TV viewers are encouraged to vote for individuals who they think will make it to Mars. Each vote adds fifty cents to the budget. <br /><br />Designs are presented to the entire community and must be defended. This should help work out the flaws in the designs.<br /><br />Sub-systems are evaluated for workability. Anything that is workable, the contestants then build. When enough sub-systems are built, a working colony is assembled from the components and that team is moved into the "settlement" they built. The settlement is placed somewhere cold, and the ambient light is adjusted to simulate Mars conditions.<br /><br />TV viewers continue to vote for the team they like best, which increases funds. Corporate sponsers get their products shown on TV.<br /><br />The most viable design wins and that team goes to Mars. For designs that aren't viable, the team is broken up. The individuals are told to try again. Hopefully better teams will form.<br /><br />Some of the rules:<br />1) no violence is allowed. All parties are kicked off the projected. This is the only way to be removed from the game. Players can leave at any time.<br />2) Each subsy

 

[spacester]

<font color="yellow">. . . so that they could be a part of it one day</font><br /><br />OK, here's where I need to deal with another preconceived notion. This is what you always hear: If we had an inspiring space program, kids would study science and math harder so that one day . . . <br /><br />What if . . . <br /><br />What if we let them be <b>directly</b> involved in the development of space hardware? What if they work on actual hardware that actually goes into space? How inspiring would that be?<br /><br />(Now I'm not saying that third graders are going to design life support systems, we're not going to compromise on the design just for the sake of the kid's self-esteem, etc.) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[arobie]

Yes, direct work will be much more inspiring, but what will they do? What would we <i>allow</i> them to do?<br /><br />Edit: Some ideas:<br /><br />Children could make drawings, art, decorations for inside the habitat(s)...maby a contest. The best ones get sent as decorations. Or we could use one of those new electronic picture screens that switch between pictures. We could have the screen change the picture every day or even few hours to show all the children's works of art.<br /><br />Or they could write short letters...e-letters for the astronauts to read on the way to Mars. For a long journey like this, reading letters from children would be an excellent thing for astronauts to do to help them pshycologically.

 

[spacester]

Yeah, stuff like that. The problem here is that I'm not an educator, so I have a hard time being specific about what particular grade levels would do.<br /><br />Plus I want to describe other aspects of my plan first. We need an organizational framework to set the context, then we'll be able to figure out what they can do.<br /><br />My basic point for now is to have them work on actual stuff, tangible projects in the here and now. Let them learn math and physics and life science by doing real stuff. I'm talking about every grade level from K thru grad student.<br /><br />Gotta run, back later with the next aspect. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[arobie]

<font color="yellow">My basic point for now is to have them work on actual stuff, tangible projects in the here and now. Let them learn math and physics and life science by doing real stuff. I'm talking about every grade level from K thru grad student.</font><br /><br />Well then I'm happy to inform you that you are already accomplishing just that. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

 

[quasar2]

this could be a whole channel like scifi channel. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[grooble]

You could have older kids putting spaceship panels together, or being witness to the smelting and shaping processes.

 

[kdavis007]

Well we have to get around the 1967 Un Space Treaty.

 

[scottb50]

Child labor, then we wouldn't have to hire all the Mexicans. They could come in handy in tight spaces too. Wait until W. hears this one. Forget the 20's, lets push back even further. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[dan_casale]

If we are not representing a government, I don't believe the treaty is a problem.