Mars Settlement: Phase I Summary

[arobie]

<font color="yellow">Hey Arobie, do you want to be co-webmaster?</font><br /><br />I'll give it a shot. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Before you accept me though, I have to admit that I have very little experience building a website.<br /><br />I feel we should wait another day or so for grooble. He probably just got really caught with other life stuff.<br /><br />To be a true space-enthusiast, the first thing one needs to learn is patience. We'll survive the wait. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[spacester]

I can't remember ever double-posting on these forums before, but I am going to take the liberty here. These comments needed to be on both threads, and I'll pick up where I left off on this thread only. Thanks.<br />***<br />OK, so Arobie has <28 on subsequent crews, Dan has n*28 on subsequent crews, and I have 28. Other than that, we're on the same page. Lol This is a good time to explain part of my vision for the website.<br /><br />I'm gonna make a long post to explain, but the short message is this:<br /><br />Everyone's vision is to be honored. Divergence of visions must be our strength, not a stumbling block. There needs to be a central plan, but it is only a baseline plan: anyone is free to discuss anything in terms of the baseline, but modified as they specify. This is what the personal sections on the website are about: organizing that complicated discussion. Everybody gets a place to specify those things about the baseline plan they haven’t completely bought into, and explain why. Those positions establish the context of their opinions, saving everybody time and reducing confusion.<br />***<br />Everybody has their own space vision. Even those that see things very similarly will find themselves diverging as they get deeper into actual planning. This is one of the central conundrums of unifying space keeners under one roof. This is one of the things I've pondered a lot.<br /><br />ACCESS is about establishing a big enough tent to house the vast majority of space keeners. The idea is be general enough that everyone's personal vision is under the tent. The challenge then becomes getting everyone under the tent to work in parallel towards a common objective. If we can do that, we can leverage that support with our education outreach and our Affiliates to get our 39 Million active citizens.<br /><br />If one guy starts a bunch of threads and practically highjacks a space message board <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> and says "this is how many people should be on the fir <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[dan_casale]

Spacester:<br />I completely agree, DIMYDYAABOFI!<br /><br />Meanwhile back at the real world... Here is a linkboard with a lot of good space links. I think we could even volunteer to keep the links updated.<br /><br />http://www.dmoz.org/Science/Technology/Space/Colonization/<br />or <br />http://www.dmoz.org/Science/Technology/Space/

 

[spacester]

Yeah, great idea! We poach those lists, but then add value to them and turn around and give them right back to the provider with our compliments. We mirror their information to some extent, serving both our interests.<br /><br />One of the things that drives me crazy and I know I'm not alone is obsolete and/or undated information, especially link lists. Typically (always?) they are just snapshots in time. We can do the first comprehensive list for space sites that is kept up to date. We can take this basic concept and build it into something very big.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[spacester]

DIMWDYAABOFI!<br /><br />I mean, all too often that’s what happens in space development discussions, right? Here at uplink.sdc and on these threads in particular, we have established a culture where that doesn’t happen. That’s a huge first step, but we need to take it to the next level. We need to drive things towards consensus.<br /><br />Given the extremely broad nature of our enterprise, the mind-boggling inter-connectedness of design decisions and the fractious nature of space keeners’ opinions, this is perhaps the central challenge for ACCESS: achieving consensus.<br /><br />My strategy is this: create a baseline plan and publish it. Establish a discussion forum to expand the baseline plan sufficiently to account for the essential design issues that are inter-connected. Get a lot of people talking as much as they want about all the different design issues. Allow everyone to document their own personal space vision, and honor that vision by listening to the reasons for the differences with the baseline plan. Allow even the most fundamental design decisions (e.g. crew size) of the baseline plan to be changed in response to consensus reached during discussions. Hope that the dissenters in each case will have been honored enough by the respect shown their ideas that they will honor us with their continued support. If the dissenters go away mad, that’s their problem – we tried to be as fair as we know how and nobody gets everything they want.<br /><br />Note that those first on the scene will be those who establish the baseline design decision. There are tens of thousands of design decisions to be made. For a particular person, there are thousands of opportunities for at least a small part of their personal space vision to become a very small part of the official baseline plan. This is how you literally combine the fractious visions from the individuals into the whole vision. This is how we recruit existing space geeks. They need to stick around to defend their contribution <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[grooble]

Hey, i don't mind continuing to help out with the website, i just don't want to be in charge of it right now as i can't promise to be reliable, i'm currently not in the right frame of mind for that responsibility.<br /><br />But i'd be glad to work with you and Arobie and maybe spare 30 minutes a day to help out with the site.<br /><br /><br />

 

[spacester]

<img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /><br /><br />I'm setting up e-mail accounts for the three of us, will send login info to you.<br /><br />grooble: Arobie and I are pretty new at this, but I think all we need is to get a few answers when we get stuck on something. The hosting services seem to make things pretty straightforward.<br /><br />We'll be able to get this thing going via private e-mail. I'm hoping you're only looking at 5 minutes a day, but I really don't know. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[grooble]

Well i've fixed the site with the updates you added, the main page and the forum link, want me to upload it? <br /><br />By the way, what and where is the best way to organise, on these threads, or through email, or pm's?<br /><br />

 

[spacester]

Yes please! My online html editor screwed up some of the formatting. Please clean up my mess, thank you. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> (edit: wow, that was fast, already done, Check out our website now )<br /><br />OK, I'm just winging it here, but I'm thinking that Arobie, grooble and I are co-webmasters and for now I'm the Admin of the overall site. Communications between us for web site business can be done with e-mail using the accounts I just set up. All three of us will have admin access but I figure only one of us should tinker at that level. Since grooble, unlike me, actually knows what he's doing, I'll ask him to do some admin stuff as it comes up. But he doesn't have the burden of the responsibility of being an official admin.<br /><br />I'm not fond of PM here at sdc. It's a great service and all, but we should be conducting our business at our own site. I see PM as a way for sdc visitors to contact us on 'neutral ground'.<br /><br />The forums on our site can be used to figure out most everything, and we can use these forums to keep the folks here updated on our progress. Maybe we set a date for a changeover from discussing things here (this thread) to doing it there. Maybe we keep using bandwidth here until they kick us off. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> What do y'all think?<br /><br />I see our forums as being open to all for posting. I can see the need to control access to certain forums to exclude trolls, but as soon as we do that we go away from the openness and transparency we talked about. If we're totally open, I guess we'll have to spend time banning IP addresses etc to ward off evil-doers.<br /><br />The big question is if we want to allow non-registered folks to post. I take it that's a bit nuts because I see very few forums where that's allowed.<br /><br />We want people to register. We're going to be hitting them up for cash down the road so we need to send them an email or two. Or <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[arobie]

spacester,<br /><br />I like the whole baseline plan, edit it on consensus stategy. Lets do it! Very nice posts starting out from the DIMWDYAABOFI! and launching into the stategy. Very cool. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />I'm glad to be a co-webmaster, and the setup for that it great. This will work fine. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />So, when should we set the date to make the switch? A couple weeks, maybe a month? More?<br /><br />The forums should be open to all to see, but only those who register should be able post. When they register, they get an option to whether or not they want to receive a weekly or even monthly newsletter type email. If they turn down the offer, we respect that and do not send it to them. (And we make that clear to them that we will respect their decision.) If they accept, the email should be a type to keep them informed on the current happenings. In it could be count of how many people have donated so far, a subtle hint for them to join the effort, but not much more than that. I don't like the idea of sending out email with the purpose of asking people for money. If we don't pester people, that adds to our credibility. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />So if people register for the forums, they can opt to recieve a weekly or monthly newsletter email. For those who <i>donate</i>, they get full access to the ACCESS site, a magazine, the email newsletter, and a chance to win something...a trip to space.(?) The full access to our site is automatic. Everything else should be optional. <br /><br />One thing that really irks me is not being able to be taken off of an email list. If a donator or forum member asks to be taken off of the mailing list, we do it. I hate it when websites automatically send you their stuff every week or day and you can not get off their mailing list. Requesting to be taken off does nothing for you. We need to respect our visitors requests.<br /><br />The reason why I have it that we shou

 

[jwsmith]

spacester wrote >> Starting March 1 2005, we began discussing the idea of Settling Mars sooner than later. It was my feeling, based on experience here, that the outline of a plan I had put together in my head contained too many "out-of-the-box" ideas to just jump right in <<<br /><br />I do not stop by these forums very often, The last time I did you had just began this idea. <br />I wish to congratulate the real contributors to the idea. You have done a good job, not as good as mine, done by myself, but a great job never the less. <br />I wish you the most success possible. I will not be participating because I have my own plan to pursue. However when you get to the point of actually getting equipment to make the trip I will sell you the modules to make the trip in. By that time I should already be on Mars but those who will stay here can take care of your needs. <br />While I have not read all of the post nor all of the threads, I am satisified that you have it well in hand. <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2">John Wayne Smith, CEO</font></p><p><font size="2">1000 Planets, Inc</font></p><p><font size="2">Http://www.1000Planets.com</font></p><p><font size="2">203 W.Magnolia St.</font></p><p><font size="2">Leesbutg Florida 34748</font></p><p><font size="2">Ph: 352 787 5550</font></p><p><font size="2">email jwsmith42000@aol.com</font></p> </div>

 

[scottb50]

Still at it? Last I heard you had a couple of 18 year old followers to do the web site and that was about it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jwsmith]

Scottb50 writes: >> Still at it? Last I heard you had a couple of 18 year old followers to do the web site and that was about it. <<<br /><br />I am not as diplomatic as is Spacester but fools like you and Jon Clark are the reason I did not take part in this. . You know so little and think you know so much. <br /> <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2">John Wayne Smith, CEO</font></p><p><font size="2">1000 Planets, Inc</font></p><p><font size="2">Http://www.1000Planets.com</font></p><p><font size="2">203 W.Magnolia St.</font></p><p><font size="2">Leesbutg Florida 34748</font></p><p><font size="2">Ph: 352 787 5550</font></p><p><font size="2">email jwsmith42000@aol.com</font></p> </div>

 

[arobie]

JWSmith,<br /><br />Thank you good sir for your wishes of good luck, and I wish you good luck in yours too, but please do not come in insulting my respectable friends. Thanks.<br /><br />And once again, good luck! We are all working towards the same goal anyways, the raison d'etre of any space efforts: to make humankind a spacefaring race.<br /><br />Scottb50,<br /><br />I'm sorry if you don't care for him and his plans, but please don't make remarks that will sidetrack this discussion like that. Thank you. <br /><br />And to your modular post, oh wait wrong thread, sorry. I'll respond to that later when I get the time and am on the right thread! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[dan_casale]

Scottb50:<br />I am one of those "18 year old" followers, and like here progress is slow but we are still progressing....

 

[scottb50]

I'm sorry if you don't care for him and his plans, but please don't make remarks that will sidetrack this discussion like that. Thank you......<br /><br />I didn't mean to sidetrack anything. I was simply pointing out what I was told when I discussed my plan with him a couple of years ago. <br /><br />I would still be more than happy to work with anyone in reaching what appears to be a common goal. It makes a lot more sense than everybody going their own way.<br /><br />The fact Mr Smith feels he has to be in control of everything rather than embracing other opinions is where I disagree. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[grooble]

On the contrary, the fact the several of us are young means we can see how this develops over the course of our lives.<br /><br />If my health holds up i should be able to make it to the 2050s at least. <br /><br />Do you think we'll be on the moon and mars by then? Damn right, but the question is, what role will we play? Will we here have had any significant role in bringing about that dream?<br /><br />Time will tell.

 

[scottb50]

I wasn't meaning to make light of 18 year olds. Im in my fifties and know I will never be able to go, I wish we were discussing this 20 or 30 years ago.<br /><br />I was simply repeating what Mr. Smiths response was when I suggested combining efforts. I asked about the availability of graphic artists and others that could illustrate my plans. I am definitely not an artist. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[ldyaidan]

Great work, guys! I suggest that we contact other space societies, once the site is a little more complete, and ask permission to link to their sites, just as a courtesy, and invite them to participate in our plans. If nothing else, this may help open up the doors for communication and cooperation.<br /><br />Rae

 

[jwsmith]

grooble writes: >> On the contrary, the fact the several of us are young means we can see how this develops over the course of our lives. <<<br /><br />This is true and I hope you and the rest of this group stay the course until the job is done. <br /><br /> />> If my health holds up i should be able to make it to the 2050s at least. <<<br /><br />In a few weeks I will be 60, there is no reason we can not share a meal on Mars in 2050. I look forward to it. <br /><br /> />> Do you think we'll be on the moon and mars by then? Damn right, but the question is, what role will we play? Will we here have had any significant role in bringing about that dream? <<<br /><br />If this group decides that they really want to do it, we can have a city on Mars within 10 years. My plans are further along. Recently I have contracted for architectural blueprints and engneering specifications for self sustaining habitat modules for both 8 and 16 people. Now I am looking for mass produced launchers. Nothing exotic, just big dumb boosters. <br /><br />This exercise under the capable direction of Spacester has been and is important. Once it is moved to a more permanent site it will be even better. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2">John Wayne Smith, CEO</font></p><p><font size="2">1000 Planets, Inc</font></p><p><font size="2">Http://www.1000Planets.com</font></p><p><font size="2">203 W.Magnolia St.</font></p><p><font size="2">Leesbutg Florida 34748</font></p><p><font size="2">Ph: 352 787 5550</font></p><p><font size="2">email jwsmith42000@aol.com</font></p> </div>

 

[grooble]

What sort of price did you pay for the blueprint work?

 

[jwsmith]

grooble writes: >> What sort of price did you pay for the blueprint work? <<<br /><br />I will not divulge that at this time, but the total architectural and engineering work will run into the mid 6 figure range. We did supply the conceptual drawings and all perimeters to where the actual work could be done by a competant draftsman and only review by the architect and engineer will be necessary. <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2">John Wayne Smith, CEO</font></p><p><font size="2">1000 Planets, Inc</font></p><p><font size="2">Http://www.1000Planets.com</font></p><p><font size="2">203 W.Magnolia St.</font></p><p><font size="2">Leesbutg Florida 34748</font></p><p><font size="2">Ph: 352 787 5550</font></p><p><font size="2">email jwsmith42000@aol.com</font></p> </div>