- Status
Well the only people that have really missed former President George W. Bush are probably comedians. I must admit I have always liked the guy; he just seems like a good person to have a beer with. As far as being a President is concerned he really did put our country in a tough spot with 2 wars that really trashed our economy. But I believe his worst mistake was the Vice President that he chose. Vice President Dick Cheney in my opinion was one of the most dangerous persons ever to be that close to the Presidency. This guy has some very scary ideas and actually tried to usurp some power from the President until President George Bush put him in his place.
So I guess I do miss him a bit, but I don’t miss Cheney.
So I guess I do miss him a bit, but I don’t miss Cheney.
Gravity_Ray":1ay9twi8 said:
Please enlighten us.... What are Cheney's top two or three most dangerous ideas ?
How did he try to usurp power ?
Ahhh...you know MP...libs are going to Bit_h about any little thing... wait till I give em the link to the Impeach Obama bumper stickers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:
warpfactor999":800jyhzc said:
I actually don't mind that, but if they are going to complain about Cheney's "dangerous ideas" they should tell us exactly what ideas they are that bother them so much....
I don't know...but if its hunting with Cheney...I would rather do that than driving with T. Kennedy...ooh wait he's dead now too!
Miss Bush? No, not at all. Granted, he is ALLOT better than the current POTUS but Bush was a liberal spender as well and also circumvented the constitution. McCain wouldn't have done much better, but I think he would have been a more conservative spender than the current administration!
Well.... it appears that GravityRay has chosen to leave the arena...
Allright. Next time it's a CAGE Match !!!
Allright. Next time it's a CAGE Match !!!
MannyPim":2rjrfo9z said:
Manny if you wish to know more about Vice President Cheney and his pluses and minuses, may I recommend his wiki page? But sorry, not my job to enlighten you!
If you wish for some enlightenment, may I recommend the Dalai Lama? He is in the country talking to President Obama right now. Or, if you don't have time to talk to the guy, here is his book
http://www.amazon.com/Path-Enlightenmen ... 1559390328
CAGE Match? Nah, I'm a lover not a fighter.
MannyPim":2ak5k6jf said:
1. Eating a cheeseburger
2. Getting too riled up a CPAC
3. Pushing too hard while pooping
Any single one of these things could be fatal to a guy with his bum ticker...
I loved it when Louis Armstrong met the spirtual leader of Tibet and sang that beautiful rendition of "Hello Dalai."
Brought a tear to my eye...
Brought a tear to my eye...
Gravity_Ray":c66rslmc said:
Well, there you have it.... a powerful and persuasive argument if I have ever heard one.
You have won me over...
Yeah, I can now see that Cheney is indeed a man with very dangerous ideas....
But seriously GR, I don;t understand guys like you....
I am NOT interested in what Wiki says about Cheney... I am interested in what YOU have to say....
You make a flat statement that he has dangerous ideas and provide no reasoning, evidence or examples of what you are talking about... you should have done that in the same post where you made the claim.... but you didn;t and that's ok...
But then when I asked you to share with us how you came to conclude these things about Cheney, you bail.... you seem piqued that I even dared to ask you ....
It doesn't make sense... this is a DISCUSSION forum.... presumably you are here because you want to engage in DISCUSSION.... because you are interested in other opinions and are willing to engage and share yoru thoughts with others here....
What gives, dude ?
Well I must admit I was a bit piqued, as you say. It’s a discussion forum and I do want to discuss things, although most of the things I want to discuss here are space related and not so much politics related. However the reason I was not in a mood to tell you what I thought about Vice President Cheney was because I don’t think you really are interested in other people’s opinions. You once asked me a bunch of questions about global warming and climate change, and told me that if I responded to your questions you would be willing to listen to them and give me some feedback. You never did, so I assume you have already made up your mind about most things, and don’t really want to discuss things. You just want to hear your ideas come out of other people’s mouths, and that is fine, but I don’t feel the need to discuss things with you then. You see a discussion is a two way street and requires some level of compromise.
So once again I don’t want you to think I am ignoring you so I will answer a question that is directed at me.
Back to the Vice President Cheney and why I don’t really like him:
From the beginning his ideas are against most things I stand for. For example he has on more than one occasion used the brave men and women in service as a club against the Democratic Party, however, when he was eligible for the draft during the Vietnam War he applied and received five draft deferments, because he said he had other priorities in the 60s. So he stayed in college and finished a four-year program in seven years. For the last deferment he used his unborn first child as a hardship exemption and basically dodged serving his country.
Mr. Cheney voted against the creation of the US Department of Education claiming that such a department was an encroachment on states rights. He voted against Head Start but after it passed changed his position. Apparently he likes people to stay ignorant and easy to control.
Following 9/11 Mr. Cheney asserted a connection between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda despite contrary claims from the Pentagon, and others in the intelligence community. He was the biggest supporter of the idea that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. You know why? Because he needed a way into Iraq for Halliburton to make its way into the oil fields there.
The Washington Post reported that Vice President Cheney’s office was responsible for the Valerie Plame CIA leak scandal that is when Lewis Libby took a bullet for his boss and resigned from office. Libby later stated before a grand jury that his boss Mr. Cheney had authorized him to disclose classified information to the press regarding intelligence on Iraq’s weapons. Mr. Libby was convicted of four felony counts of obstruction and perjury. The fruit never falls too far from the tree. President Bush never did pardon Libby even though Mr. Cheney repeatedly pushed him to do so; it seriously strained their relationship. This shows a very aggressive Cheney that is not impressed by the office of the President, and President Bush finally had enough of him.
This came from the fact the Mr. Cheney persuaded President Bush to allow him to make many of the details of White House policy, like the environmental policy to ease pollution controls for power plants, facilitate the disposal of nuclear waste, open access to federal timber resources, and avoid federal constraints on greenhouse gas emissions, among other issues. Mr. Cheney really wanted to have the presidential power, without getting the Presidential seat. He tried to usurp power from Mr. Bush and thinks he is a shadowy President, and that scares the heck out of me.
Finally as a neo conservative Mr. Cheney is a big supporter of the idea of preemptive war. This to me is so un-American that makes my skin crawl. We are a nation of God fearing free peoples, and it goes smack against our nature to be the aggressor. If we are attacked we will fight back and we will win because we have God behind us, but the idea that we should ram our way of life down other peoples throats changes us to fascists. So after 9/11 instead of attacking and killing Al Qaeda we have mired ourselves in a war in Iraq to make sure companies like Halliburton make as much money from Oil deals as possible, enriching people like Mr. Cheney who was the CEO for Halliburton and still makes money from that company. What I wanted after 9/11 was Osama Bin Ladens head on a pike in Washington D.C. but Mr. Cheney and the neo conservatives have got us in crap hole in Iraq wasting US money, and precious American blood and pissing off every Muslim in this world, and Bin Laden is still running around.
So now Manny, please tell me why do you like Mr. Cheney? Please enlighten me!!
So once again I don’t want you to think I am ignoring you so I will answer a question that is directed at me.
Back to the Vice President Cheney and why I don’t really like him:
From the beginning his ideas are against most things I stand for. For example he has on more than one occasion used the brave men and women in service as a club against the Democratic Party, however, when he was eligible for the draft during the Vietnam War he applied and received five draft deferments, because he said he had other priorities in the 60s. So he stayed in college and finished a four-year program in seven years. For the last deferment he used his unborn first child as a hardship exemption and basically dodged serving his country.
Mr. Cheney voted against the creation of the US Department of Education claiming that such a department was an encroachment on states rights. He voted against Head Start but after it passed changed his position. Apparently he likes people to stay ignorant and easy to control.
Following 9/11 Mr. Cheney asserted a connection between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda despite contrary claims from the Pentagon, and others in the intelligence community. He was the biggest supporter of the idea that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. You know why? Because he needed a way into Iraq for Halliburton to make its way into the oil fields there.
The Washington Post reported that Vice President Cheney’s office was responsible for the Valerie Plame CIA leak scandal that is when Lewis Libby took a bullet for his boss and resigned from office. Libby later stated before a grand jury that his boss Mr. Cheney had authorized him to disclose classified information to the press regarding intelligence on Iraq’s weapons. Mr. Libby was convicted of four felony counts of obstruction and perjury. The fruit never falls too far from the tree. President Bush never did pardon Libby even though Mr. Cheney repeatedly pushed him to do so; it seriously strained their relationship. This shows a very aggressive Cheney that is not impressed by the office of the President, and President Bush finally had enough of him.
This came from the fact the Mr. Cheney persuaded President Bush to allow him to make many of the details of White House policy, like the environmental policy to ease pollution controls for power plants, facilitate the disposal of nuclear waste, open access to federal timber resources, and avoid federal constraints on greenhouse gas emissions, among other issues. Mr. Cheney really wanted to have the presidential power, without getting the Presidential seat. He tried to usurp power from Mr. Bush and thinks he is a shadowy President, and that scares the heck out of me.
Finally as a neo conservative Mr. Cheney is a big supporter of the idea of preemptive war. This to me is so un-American that makes my skin crawl. We are a nation of God fearing free peoples, and it goes smack against our nature to be the aggressor. If we are attacked we will fight back and we will win because we have God behind us, but the idea that we should ram our way of life down other peoples throats changes us to fascists. So after 9/11 instead of attacking and killing Al Qaeda we have mired ourselves in a war in Iraq to make sure companies like Halliburton make as much money from Oil deals as possible, enriching people like Mr. Cheney who was the CEO for Halliburton and still makes money from that company. What I wanted after 9/11 was Osama Bin Ladens head on a pike in Washington D.C. but Mr. Cheney and the neo conservatives have got us in crap hole in Iraq wasting US money, and precious American blood and pissing off every Muslim in this world, and Bin Laden is still running around.
So now Manny, please tell me why do you like Mr. Cheney? Please enlighten me!!
Gravity_Ray":3qxdsa69 said:
Hmmm... I don;t actually remember promising you feedback. If it's the thread that I am thinking about on global warming, what happened was I asked you a bunch of questions and instead of answering you asked me one or two questions. So I said that I would respond to yours if you responded to mine.
Eventually you did respond to my questions which I appreciate. And I left it at that. At some point every line of discussion must come to an end... I asked questions, you responded... I accepted your answers.... I could have chosen to continue the discussion but simply chose not to. Primarily because I had coverd that same terroritory dozens of times already.
That should have not made you mad at me. If it did, you could address me directly and ask for feedback and I would have likely given it to you...
Correction: the question wasn't why you don't like Cheney.... the question was that you gives us examples or evidence of why you believe that Cheney has "dangerous ideas".
I shall assume that the issues you address below are those that you consider his most "dangerous ideas"; if I am making an incorrect ssumption, of course, please feel free to clarify.
Ok, fine.... you disagree with his ideas... you have different ideas... perfectly acceptable in a free society...
Assuming that everything you say here is correct for the sake of not getting bogged down, I am willing to stipulate that he was able to stay out of the Vietnam war... That doesn't make him a hero of course, but it also doesn't make him dangerous...
I would need an example to understand what you are trying to say about using soldiers against the Democratic party.
Again: where is the "danger" part of it ?
I happen to agree wiht his views on this. First, can you tell me where in the US Constitution is the Federal Governmnet given the power and authority to be involved in education ?
Secondly, there were some results published recently about a study of the impact of HEad Start that clearly show there is NO NET BENEFIT to the students that are enrolled in the program. Here we are spending billions and billions and getting nothing for all of that wasted money. So, Mr. Cheney seems to have been doubly vindicated in this instance. He was right and you are wrong.
I can only address this claim if you can give me specifics: What did Cheney say about sadam and al qaeda ? when did he say it ?
Then you go on to make another unsupported assertion: that Cheney's position on the Iraq war was driven by his interest in Halliburton. Is there ANY evidence that you can provide to support this ? Is there any evidence you can provide to prove to me that you are capable of discerning another human being's motivations ?
Remember, this post of yours is a response to my request that you provide evidence to support a previous unsubstantiated claim that Cheney has "dangerous ideas". So it is generally NOT a good tactic to respond to such a request by COMPOUNDING the original error by piling on additional unsubstantiated claims...
I can't believe that you are still harping on this. Valerie Plame was outed by Richard Armitage. He did NOT work for Cheney.
Even if all you believe was true: How is it dangerous ?
Again, you insist on trying to impress us with your mind reading skills.... and I agree with all the positions he adopted as you describe them above.... I think they are all sensible and not at all dangerous...
Really ?? I would be EXTREMELY CURIOUS about your opinion on obama ramming his "way of life" down our throats... perhaps you can address that on another thread ?
Also, on the pre-emtpive war issue: how do you feel about obama's UAV's blowing up terrorists in Pakistan ? Most of those he has blow up never did anything to us and definitely never attacked us on on our soil. Most are guilty of just attacking the Afghan people.... isn't that kind of "pre-emptive?
Of course, your point is moot, because we are not forcing anything down the Iraqi's throats. We liberated them from a brutal tyrant who actually WAS forcing his murderous control on his people to the point of using WMDs to murder entire villages... We gave the Iraqis , for the first time ever, the opportunity to choose their own leaders and theri own system of government. And we are about to leave the place and hand it all back to them again... If obama's socialist hellthcare system is ever passed, when will it expire and return our individual Freedom back to us ?
Well, it's kind of up to obama to make your dream come true now, isn't it ? Don't worry... obama promised that he would follow osama to the gates of hell... or was it osama who was going to follow obama ? (it's so confusing)... Anyway, obama knows where osama is and is waiting for just the right moment to kill him and parade his body on TV.... look for that to happen around September or October of 2012..... (as far as seeing his head on a pike, you may need to talk to obama directly to see if he can make that happen)
You had already raised the halliburton issue above and I already responded to it.
You apparently have run out of bad things to say about Cheney since you are begnning to repeat yourself.
I appreciate your attempt to provide reasonable evidence that Cheney has "dangerous ideas". Unfortunately, you did not make your case....
Cheney is a grown up. He is a serious man. He knows what he is doing. He is a no nonsense guy and doesn't take any crap from anyone. He deals with reality and with results. He is a straight shooter and speaks clearly and plainly about where he stands on issues.
I would say that I completely agree with his stand on most issues.
He has an incredble amount of experience and a very impressive record of service and achievement. In spite of all your claims, I would challenge you to find a single instance where Cheney has lied to the American People. He is man of honor.
Contrast all of that with what we have right now occupying the White House....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-wort ... 53419.html
Former Head Of Star Wars Program Says Cheney Main 911 Suspect - Dr. Robert M. Bowman, Lt. Col., USAF, ret., the former head of the Star Wars missile defense program under Presidents Ford and Carter has gone public to say that the official version of 9/11 is a conspiracy theory and his main suspect for the architect of the attack is Vice President Dick Cheney. - He said it is plausible that the entire chain of military command were unaware of what was taking place and were used as tools by the people pulling the strings behind the attack.
http://tvnewslies.org/html/cheney_s_secrets.html
Dick Cheney's tortured lies. The former vice president has declared that secret CIA memos would show that torture works. Except that they don't.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard ... ick-cheney
Former Head Of Star Wars Program Says Cheney Main 911 Suspect - Dr. Robert M. Bowman, Lt. Col., USAF, ret., the former head of the Star Wars missile defense program under Presidents Ford and Carter has gone public to say that the official version of 9/11 is a conspiracy theory and his main suspect for the architect of the attack is Vice President Dick Cheney. - He said it is plausible that the entire chain of military command were unaware of what was taking place and were used as tools by the people pulling the strings behind the attack.
http://tvnewslies.org/html/cheney_s_secrets.html
Dick Cheney's tortured lies. The former vice president has declared that secret CIA memos would show that torture works. Except that they don't.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/richard ... ick-cheney
Oh ! The huffington post ! Then it MUST be true.....
As far as the Star Wars General, I believe he now is fully qualified for a Professorship at Princeton University...
As far as the Star Wars General, I believe he now is fully qualified for a Professorship at Princeton University...
Well if a vice president trying to usurp power from a sitting president does not appear to be dangerous to you, then you dont think he is dangerous. To me that is dangerous.
I am glad you have such a high opinion of Mr. Cheney, and you are welcome to your opinion. I mean if you like that coward then its not my business.
So since I didnt prove that he was dangerous and you didnt prove he is a good guy, I assume the discussion is over and we can both go about our business.
I am glad you have such a high opinion of Mr. Cheney, and you are welcome to your opinion. I mean if you like that coward then its not my business.
So since I didnt prove that he was dangerous and you didnt prove he is a good guy, I assume the discussion is over and we can both go about our business.
Gravity_Ray":j2dkmsci said:
Again... what evidence do yo uhave that he tried to usurp power ?
Anyone who didn't go to Vietnam is a coward ? Does that make obama one too ?
The discussion is over when either one of us decides it is....
My whole point is that it is generally bad form to make a straight out statement like "Cheney has dangerous ideas" without giving us any basis for how you came to form that opinion.
And it's ok of course to have your own opinion... but since you failed to make a persuasive case that Cheney has dangerous ideas, I am left with the impression that you formed your opinion based on emotion, or prejudgement, or based on poorly processed second hand information (maybe from the Liberal mass media outlets ?) .....
MannyPim":7r1kj9n8 said:
Anybody that dodges the draft is a coward, so yes if Obama dodges the draft then he is a coward.
You might consider finding out more about the situation before making such a judgmental comment. There are many valid reasons for not agreeing to be drafted, and several variations on “dodging the draft” that are also valid. You have clearly made a harsh statement about a subject you know very little about.Gravity_Ray":es3wucwb said:
mental_avenger":1hyb4jzs said:
Ok let me restate that.
Anybody that dodges the draft is a <filter bypass deleted> coward, so yes if Obama dodges the draft then he is a <filter bypass deleted> coward. Every coward always has a valid reason for being a coward, its called cowardice.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
TRENDING THREADS
-
-
A video made by me about space and the loneliness in the universe- Started by drakotol
- Replies: 54
-
2 colossal solar flares explode from the sun and Earth is in the firing line (video)- Started by Admin
- Replies: 3
-
Does a cosmic 'glitch' in gravity challenge Albert Einstein's greatest theory?
- Started by Admin
- Replies: 2
-
Did the James Webb Space Telescope really find life beyond Earth? Scientists aren't so sure
- Started by Admin
- Replies: 0
-
2 astronaut taxis: Why NASA wants both Boeing's Starliner and SpaceX's Dragon
- Started by Admin
- Replies: 14
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram