NASA's Perseverance is exploring Mars! Come watch updates with us!

[Catastrophe]

But see this:

When Did Mars Lose its Global Magnetic Field? - Universe Today
Ctrl click to follow. Or just click seems to work,

"For years, scientists believed that this field disappeared over 4 billion years ago, causing Mars’ atmosphere to be slowly stripped away by solar wind. But according to new research led by the University of British Columbia (UBC) has placed new constraints on when this magnetic field disappeared, indicating that Mars’ magnetic field existed sooner (and laster hundreds of millions of years longer) than previously thought."

and

"Scientists attribute this to Mars’ lower mass and density (compared to Earth) which resulted in its interior cooling more rapidly. This caused the planet’s outer core to become solid, thus arresting the Martian dynamo effect. Meanwhile, its inner core is believed to be in a liquid state because the pressure in Mars’ interior is too low to cause it to solidify."

My emphasis.

Cat

 

[Wolfshadw]

@Catastrophe

Thanks for the link! That clears up a lot of my mis-information.

-Wolf sends

 

[vincenzosassone]

"If that is true, I solved the problem. Any questions?"

No, it is not true, and I do have some questions.

First of all, you stress the inert gases, or rare gases as they re also known. From the relative proportions of gases (as you see from my reference) these are present in small amounts Not sufficient to contribute to Mars' atmosphere in any useful way.

Second, you have ignored the fact that Mars has not the gravity to retain an atmosphere. Any idea that any planetary atmosphere has a mass remotely comparable to the mass of the planet (solid + liquid) is, to be honest, unthinkable. Take the mass of solid Earth (OK solid + liquid) -look at Earth's diameter. Now look at the extremely thin layer of insubstantial gas surrounding it - the atmosphere. If you like, I will look up the mass of Earth. Mass of atmosphere is already quoted above. I think that one is also settled.


I am very sorry. I believe this whole idea is dead in the water. I have the greatest respect for you but I really do think you have to look carefully at the reality. You are not the sort of person who says "Don't confuse me with facts - my mind is made up".

With sincere best wishes,

Cat

That is a speech I can't "win". There are many proof (and evidence) you provided that I really can't beat. The most difficult problem was this, after all:

"The total mass of Earth’s atmosphere is about 5.5 quadrillion tons, or roughly one millionth of Earth’s mass.

I didn't pay enough attention to it, and I'm really sorry...
I made you waste your time uselessly, I'm sorry. Anyways, as you already said, live on Mars is possible even without terraform the planet, but at what cost? The people there, are forcet to live underground . That is all for now, if I find something new, I'll make you know it! Thanks.

 

[Catastrophe]

VS Thank you for that. It is not a waste of time if I was able to help.

All best wishes

Cat

 

[Particle Article]

so I would like to chime in, I have very rudimentary knowledge in cosmology, but it seems to me that the biggest hurdle(apart from the difficult transport), is that Mars is around -60 celsius --so growing our canola/soy/food will be so desperately hard/largely impossible. It sadly is true also that it is plants that can make the atmosphere breathable for us. If we can surmount this huge obstacle(the temperature) I think it must be in enclosed habitats. Maybe we can produce plants that can bear the cold in time?

--I have noted the contention that the magnetic field may not allow an atmosphere. Youch, how could we even dream of fixing that for habitation

 

[Wolfshadw]

-I have noted the contention that the magnetic field may not allow an atmosphere. Youch, how could we even dream of fixing that for habitation

NASA proposes building artificial magnetic field to restore Mars' atmosphere - ExtremeTech

We can't restore Mars' magnetic field, but maybe we can give it a new one.

www.extremetech.com

I think a "few decades" is pretty optimistic, but not entirely out of the question.

-Wolf sends

Edit: Of course, even if we COULD protect the atmosphere, there's no way (we currently know of) to replenish it.

 

[Particle Article]

thank you- that's very interesting!

possibly to replenish the atmosphere we could create a greenhouse effect by burning a solid portion of the plants we may be able to grow in our habitats/shelters

 

[Wolfshadw]

thank you- that's very interesting!

possibly to replenish the atmosphere we could create a greenhouse effect by burning a solid portion of the plants we may be able to grow in our habitats/shelters

As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, we're talking about trillions of tons of gases. The Sun would have probably burned out before we could generate that much gas.

-Wolf sends

 

[Catastrophe]

"we could create a greenhouse effect by burning a solid portion of the plants "

When, of course you are burning up the oxygen you need to breathe!

Cat

 

[vincenzosassone]

possibly to replenish the atmosphere we could create a greenhouse effect by burning a solid portion of the plants we may be able to grow in our habitats/shelters

If I understand correctly, the real problem isn't the heat as much as the atmosphere. Now, I'll explain it better: I proposed before to use greenhouse gases to gain heat and warm the atmosphere as well as the soil of this planet; but then thanks to Catastrophe I acknowledged that Mars is too thin to allow us to put on it many gases that excape from the planet once it (this amount of gases) will be released by Mars itself. The issue of magnetic field can be a correct solution instead!

It is not a waste of time if I was able to help.

Many thanks again. As I said before, if I'd had news (or new issues) to talk about, I would have proposed them. Now, this isn't another proof but a sort of clarification I want to do: if Mars is as large as Venus (more or less we are here) how is it possible that on Mars we have an atmophere that is less than 1% of that of Earth, and on the other hand we have Venus with an athmosphere 90 times that of Earth? This is a question I tried to answer, and maybe if I can use this theory of magnetic field I figured it out, my question is: is the magnetic field involved in the solution of this discrepancy?

 

[Catastrophe]

"if Mars is as large as Venus "

It isn't. Nowhere close.

QUOTE
Mars' mass is 6.42 x 1023 kilograms, about 10 times less than Earth. This affects the force of gravity. Gravity on Mars is 38 percent of Earth's gravity,
QUOTE (Google)

Earth and Venus are quite similar. Mars about 1/10th either.

Cat

 

[Wolfshadw]

if Mars is as large as Venus

It's not. Venus is about 81% the mass of Earth whereas Mars is only about 10% the mass of Earth.
Venus has a diameter of about 7500miles whereas Mars is only about 4200 miles.

-Wolf sends

 

[Catastrophe]

VS There you are. Two for the price of one. Simultaneously!

Cat

 

[Alfred Herman Schrader]

What are we about to find there?

Dirt.

 

[Alfred Herman Schrader]

Perseverance has Landed!

UPDATE: We've got a livestream today (March 11th, 2021) concerning the flight of the Ingenuity helicopter on Mars! Tune in at 7PM PT/ 10PM ET to watch Farah Alibay and Tim Canham how it'll be done!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoLYqFB6kVY

Image credit: NASA
​

After setting off in the Summer last year, NASA's Perseverance rover is finally set to touchdown on the red planet. For a few reasons, this is an exciting time to be a space enthusiast. First of all, this mission represents a the most promising cache of samples, adding to a whole lot of Mars exploration that focuses on how habitable this planet was. Additionally, part of this mission involves a helicopter, named Ingenuity, that launched with Perseverance. This aircraft be testing out what flying through the Martian atmosphere is like!

Flying a drone on Mars. So what's new.

 

[Mike McCracken]

I'm not up on worm holes but I hope the helicopter can fly. They tried it on earth in a chamber that had the same atmosphere as Mars. If it ever crashes maybe the rover can retrieve it.

 

[MHF]

I heard that the drill used to measure Mars seismicity did not work as expected. Are they doing that or something similar in this mission? I was also considering if there are caves on Mars? I know that is dangerous to go where anything can collapse or block sunlight.

The Drill used on the seismicity experiment on another lander did not penetrate well into the Martian soil. Was designed to go 2 meters down. Might have gotten 12" at best. The drill on Perseverance is only inches long and is designed to drill in hard rock with a lot of pressure behind it from the extension arm. This design worked well on Curiosity.

 

[Lov_space&rockets]

Definitely enjoying this... I mean it's so cool... I can't yet imagine that it is actually on another planet...

 

[Alfred Herman Schrader]

But see this:

When Did Mars Lose its Global Magnetic Field? - Universe Today
Ctrl click to follow. Or just click seems to work,

"For years, scientists believed that this field disappeared over 4 billion years ago, causing Mars’ atmosphere to be slowly stripped away by solar wind. But according to new research led by the University of British Columbia (UBC) has placed new constraints on when this magnetic field disappeared, indicating that Mars’ magnetic field existed sooner (and laster hundreds of millions of years longer) than previously thought."

and

"Scientists attribute this to Mars’ lower mass and density (compared to Earth) which resulted in its interior cooling more rapidly. This caused the planet’s outer core to become solid, thus arresting the Martian dynamo effect. Meanwhile, its inner core is believed to be in a liquid state because the pressure in Mars’ interior is too low to cause it to solidify."

My emphasis.

Cat

It's a drone on Mars. So what's new ?

 

[Lonfas2]

Helicopters on Mars. How so freaking cool!
Just the fact the atmosphere allows that to take place.
Awesome JPL!

 

[Duncan_Idaho]

After bad news for the past four years, we now have a new future to look forward to!

 

[Dr Suresh Vatsyayann]

Excitement all over, tired fingers, but still crossed for the ultimate success of the latest mission finding life on Mars. I am sure (not wishful thinking) there would be microscopic life on Mars as the Nature Almighty has the odds of having life everywhere with at least a 50% probability on such planets humans, that would visit. For me, everything is either living or non-living, therefore what I am talking about is a life that is biological living life, not just any cosmological living life. Keep stretching the finger intermittently, if they are crossed. It might take a bit longer to find.

 

[Drew55]

I think with the new space race going on around the world, it's only a matter of time before we see a manned orbit of mars.
And I'm pretty excited that it's going to be in my short lifetime.

 

[MaxGaofeiYan]

We contacted NASA before, and suggested to use a self-righting frame protection design, like this one in the following video, for some unforeseen incidents.

XT Flyer

Hopefully nothing bad happens for Ingenuity on the Mars. Other wise it would be a very expensive mistake.

 

[robertwelton3366]

Very exciting!