New Horizons-Voyager Comparison?

[lampblack]

I apologize in advance if this question has already been pounded to death.<br /><br />But with the New Horizons folks getting ready to do a Jupiter fly-by while on their way to Pluto, I couldn't help but wonder how the quality and quantity of data at Jupiter will compare with the Voyager fly-bys back in the '70s (or whenever they were).<br /><br />Could anyone here point me toward a concise comparison? Or provide one? <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[lampblack]

well... let's not all jump on the question at the same time!<br /><br />Nobody's got any insight to offer? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[qso1]

Its probably something that has to be researched a bit before being able to offer a reliable comparison. But just off the cuff, I'd say it will first depend on how close the NH flyby will be to Jupiter. Aside from that, advances in digital imaging and data transmission are bound to make NH better from a qualitative standpoint. Jupiter images visually, there may not be a noticeable difference. Another advantage NH will have I would think is that its imaging system is designed to image a target under lighting conditions far more constrained than they were at Jupiter.<br /><br />Just a few off the cuff. I would have to get detailed specs on the two craft to do better or if you are looking. I'd recommend the links below:<br /><br />http://astronautix.com/<br /><br />http://astronautix.com/craft/newizons.htm<br /><br />http://astronautix.com/craft/voyager.htm<br /><br />http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/<br /><br />http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/ <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[brellis]

They've cut back their window of science operations for the Jupiter flyby, so the quantity won't be optimal. Regarding computer capabilities, I recall a comparison between Cassini and Voyager as about a Mac II vs. a 64k Fortran tape drive. IIRC, the New Horizons has computing power equivalent to a PowerPC-level Mac.<br /><br />NH is travelling much faster than either Voyager or Cassini were when they swept past Jupiter, but it should be able to add sginificantly to our knowledge of Europa and Io. Thanks to those missions, and to Galileo, we have a great idea of where to look and what to look for. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Well, Gallileo blew the doors off of Voyager's cameras. Cassini wasn't quite that much off an upgrade, but the Jupiter specialist probably wished it would stay at Jupiter anyway (and that's if Gallileo had survived). New Horizons has access to early 2000's tech. Cassini settled for late 1980's/early 1990's tech. Gallileo launch with 80's tech (actually derived from Voyager gear from what I understand which was in turn built from Mariner equipment).<br /><br />Now as you probably noticed, the others have noted how New Horizons might be travelling farther from Jupiter (unknown). It is also moving faster -- much faster. Because of the speed, images will be more blurred. They can fix that by panning the camera (er, spacecraft), but that changes the angle. (Try aiming your camera at the curb from a car moving at 70 mph!) Faster movement also means less time to take pictures or whatever. Some of that time is reserved for navigation (including probably a MAJOR burn) and transmission.<br /><br />Complicating things, while New Horizons had some access to newer technology than Cassini, using all of that to the maximum possible extent is another matter. New Horizons had a lot of budget and weight issues to contend with during construction. (Kirk: "We need warp speed in five minutes or we're dead!" Scotty: "Captain, I need more time. We are too massive!") <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Bottom line is Pluto-Charon is the priority.<br />While any obs than can be made at Jupiter, including the benefit of a shakedown, are great, nothing can be done that would in any way jeapordize the Prime Directive.<br /><br />We will not have another shot at anything in the Kuiper Belt, TNO range that will get there before 2025.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[brellis]

IIRC, they're so on target that they don't need a burn prior to Jupiter flyby. They'll do one afterwards. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

Speaking totally off-the-cuff because it's bedtime and I need to hurry, I think New Horizons is a much lighter spacecraft than Voyager; it doesn't have as much instrumentation. That will be a bigger limiting factor than the computing power, although the computers will allow it to record a lot more data for later playback, which will help maximize the returns in a way which Voyager couldn't quite do. NVRAM (flash memory, basically) has changed a lot of things in space processing. No more reliance on bulky mechanical tape drives with greatly reduced capacity and the ever-present possibility of motor failure.<br /><br />But by the same token, NH's sensor technology is decades ahead of Voyager. It may get a lot more out of its more limited instrument suite. Certainly camera technology has advanced tremendously. The Voyagers are equipped with vidicon tubes for imaging; NH has CCDs, which are definitely superior.<br /><br />One really fundamental limiting factor will be encounter speed, and there's nothing that can be done about that. NH is approaching Jupiter at fantastic speed. This is necessary in order to make the Pluto rendezvous. But it means that it will have significantly less time near Jupiter than either Voyager did, and that's a very hard limit. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

Voyager ushered in a new era.Out solar system was a riddle befor pioneer and voyager.Nothing like that.

 

[willpittenger]

TNO? As for the Kupiter Belt, will either Voyager encounter anything? Their cameras are history, but other instruments might tell us something. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>No more reliance on bulky mechanical tape drives with greatly reduced capacity and the ever-present possibility of motor failure.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />I find myself thinking of Galileo's balky tape drive. As I remember, the problem wasn't with the moter, the tape stuck at select points. This deprived the craft of much of its storage. BTW: What does Cassini use for memory? Hard Drive? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Actually, I was talking about a burn at Jupiter. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

BTW: The Pioneer 10/11 craft were great for discovering how dangerous the Jupiter radiation field would be for Voyager, but they had lousy cameras, if you can call them that. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[chode]

This page gives a summary of what New Horizons will be doing at Jupiter:<br /><br />http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/science/jupiterScience.html<br /><br />Since they are passing Jupiter (and satellites) at much larger distances (and greater speeds) than the Voyagers, I doubt that the "quality" of observations would compare to that of the Voyagers. It looks like they are going to do limited observations that have the greatest chance of giving some useful results. After all, the main purpose of the Jupiter flyby is to speed it on to Pluto.<br /><br />Regards

 

[3488]

Hi all.<br /><br />The Pionerrs 10 & 11 craft had two 'photopolaramiters' (not true cameras) that imaged light in red & blue channels. The green channel was added on Earth. However they still returned images far better than anything at the time that could be accomplished on the ground. They were really low cost trail blazers to test whether or not it was safe to cross the Asteroid Belt, possible to pass Jupiter & maybe Saturn (Pioneer 11 did & discovered Titan's smog layer & carried out some useful ring observations).<br /><br />Voyagers 1 & 2 did carry true cameras, a huge improvement. They used the old vidicon system, quite quaint compared to NH or Cassini, but was able to deliver some amazing sharp images (Voyager 1 at Io & Rhea, Voyager 2 at Miranda & Triton, where almost of orbiter quality). <br /><br />NH will be belting through the Jovian system, but will hopefully carry out some decent science despite the downgrade of the encounter (Jupiter weather & Io observations appear to be largely unaffected thankfully).<br /><br />Main concern at the moment is the above than expected consuption of thruster fuel from two of the sixteen 'jets'.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I find myself thinking of Galileo's balky tape drive. As I remember, the problem wasn't with the moter, the tape stuck at select points. This deprived the craft of much of its storage. BTW: What does Cassini use for memory? Hard Drive?<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Part of Galileo's problem was that the tape drive was never intended to be used so heavily. It carried a whopping communications system, so it was expected that it could beam much of the data back live. This was not to be.<br /><br />Cassini uses flash, if I recall correctly. It's pretty standard in spacecraft these days. I'll just double-check..... Yep. According to the mission website, it uses a solid state recorder. It's referred to as a "disk" at some times, but this is simply a linguistic legacy of magnetic disk drives. It has no moving parts and no physical disk; its guts would just look like printed circuits and microchips. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

This is not disc actually?

 

[3488]

Hi alokmohan.<br /><br />No it was decided with Cassini, that there would be as few moving parts as possible (fixed high gain antenna instead of fold up umbrella type as on Galileo, no spin / despin mechanism as on Galileo & no tape recorders / hard drives & no scan platforms as on both Voyagers).<br /><br />I do not know what the memory is, but it must be enormous. I would assume that there must be memory dumps once every so often.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>