Obama withdraws funding for constellation

[dwbrannon]

Re: Obama withdrawals funding for constellation

Perhaps what is should say is: "That's it, no more Americans in Space." Since the 60's, America has been the unquestioned leader in space exploration and we just decide to abandon that, with no national discussion, no public outrage. Maybe what we should say is: "That's it, America decides to be a second rate nation!"

 

[menellom]

Re: Obama withdrawals funding for constellation

It boggles my mind to see so many people in this community (a community which as recently as a few months ago during the Augustine Commission had many of its members calling for an exciting new direction to replace Constellation, and for Ares' proverbial head on a platter) is now suddenly arguing that trading in Constellation/Ares for a new program and a new rocket, is the end of America's space program in its entirety.

I can just see some of you, running out into the middle of busy intersections, jumping onto the hoods of cars and raising flimsy sheets of cardboard with, words crudely scrawled in sharpie - "The End of America's Space Program is Nigh!" Running madly around town looting hobby stores for telescopes and model rockets in irrational preparation for a perceived apocalypse that's only exists within your minds.

Human spaceflight is not, by any stretch of the imagination, going to end, nor will American dominance in the field.

The sky is not falling Chicken Little.

 

[thermionic]

Re: Obama withdrawals funding for constellation

I heard that they're going to make us all live underground, and start teaching the kids that stars are just a primitive myth.

Here's what I've learned from this forum over the last while:

=>The shuttle is a death trap and should be decommissioned
=>The ISS is a usless expense that's eating all the money best used for new projects
=>Constellation is an overpriced step backwards
=>Ares 1 is an underperforming Rube-Goldberg kludge and should be cancelled
=>Ares V should be shuttle-derived, or Direct, or Jupiter
=>LEO access should be 'commercial' rather than NASA
=>A moon base would be even worse than ISS, tying us down to an all-consuming but unproductive program
=>We should be aiming higher than the moon

Now we're outraged that the shuttle program is being shut down. How could they consider decomissioning the ISS when such a great investment has been made? Ending Ares 1 is shortsighed. Replacing Constellation with COTS and Direct means the end of human space flight. Cancelling the moon base and planning NEO, Phobos, Venus flyby is equivalent to abandoning American pride in being at the forefront of space exploration.

It's so hard to know what to think nowadays! Maybe we should wait a bit and listen to the announcements over the next two days...

 

[Valcan]

Re: Obama withdrawals funding for constellation

I heard that they're going to make us all live underground, and start teaching the kids that stars are just a primitive myth.

Here's what I've learned from this forum over the last while:

=>The shuttle is a death trap and should be decommissioned
=>The ISS is a usless expense that's eating all the money best used for new projects
=>Constellation is an overpriced step backwards
=>Ares 1 is an underperforming Rube-Goldberg kludge and should be cancelled
=>Ares V should be shuttle-derived, or Direct, or Jupiter
=>LEO access should be 'commercial' rather than NASA
=>A moon base would be even worse than ISS, tying us down to an all-consuming but unproductive program
=>We should be aiming higher than the moon

Now we're outraged that the shuttle program is being shut down. How could they consider decomissioning the ISS when such a great investment has been made? Ending Ares 1 is shortsighed. Replacing Constellation with COTS and Direct means the end of human space flight. Cancelling the moon base and planning NEO, Phobos, Venus flyby is equivalent to abandoning American pride in being at the forefront of space exploration.

It's so hard to know what to think nowadays! Maybe we should wait a bit and listen to the announcements over the next two days...

I understand what your saying but first

-ares 1 should be shut down there are plenty of cheaper commercial substitutes coming on line that can do it cheaper.
-The ISS is great unfortunatly so it would be easier for the russians to get to its in a very bad orbit. Hopefully when they fit the vasimr it will get better. Personaly id pull it higher and expand it more.
-most Nasa projects are over priced and Nasa moves at a glacial pace they have 5 yr studies to find out what they will do in the next 10 yrs. The study takes 200million dollars and a team of 500.
- i do think we should reconsider plans to go to the moon in exchange for plans for missions to NEO asteroids etc. Hopefully finding out if its possible to harvest there minerals for advancment in space.
-The shuttle was a great idea that like so many in this country got F'ed up my changes to the original plan. It went from a space truck to a all in one super machine. It just got to heavy to expensive and way way way to complicated. Sure its reusable.....if you practicaly rebuild it after every launch.

Basicaly everyone is kinda depressed but this is no reason to lose hope. I hope (god i cant believe i said that :roll: )
that obama will atleast relax taxes and try to help stimulate the space industry. :|

 

[SNAPPA49]

Re: Obama withdrawals funding for constellation

The lack of understanding of "deep time" and the blight of religion on this planet will be the death of the human race. The more humans on this planet the less the planet can take care of them. Until humans are threatened they do not act, wether it be the sun going super nova or an asteroid smashing into the Earth it will end without a doubt. When that day comes and it will, humans will wonder why the previous generation did nothing to get humans off this planet in time. That makes you think about civilization and why we do the things we do knowing full well that they will not survive to be remembered by anyone. History, art, literature will all be gone and then we ask what was it all for? Will anyone know that the human race had been here at all? Space flight isn't just about going to the moon its about stretching the human race into the vast universe to start colonies elsewhere. We might be talking 4.5 billion years from now or we could be talking about next week, the fact is the will not be here forever, that is a fact no one can dispute except the ignorant. We waste so much money on human-less space flight and visits to moons and other planets in a desperate attempt at finding micro-organisims to verify that life exists elsewhere anyone with half a brain doesn't need these flights because they know that of course life exists out there some where but the distantance to reaching them prevents us from ever finding it. We should be more concerned about extending the human race out to the stars so that it may survive until the end of the universe which is also coming without a doubt once the universe expands to an inconceivable distance it will be too late then because stars will no longer be visisble let alone reachable. Humans lack a quality they despeartley need imagination.

 

[EarthlingX]

Re: Obama withdrawals funding for constellation

The lack of understanding of "deep time" and the blight of religion on this planet will be the death of the human race. The more humans on this planet the less the planet can take care of them. Until humans are threatened they do not act, wether it be the sun going super nova or an asteroid smashing into the Earth it will end without a doubt. When that day comes and it will, humans will wonder why the previous generation did nothing to get humans off this planet in time. That makes you think about civilization and why we do the things we do knowing full well that they will not survive to be remembered by anyone. History, art, literature will all be gone and then we ask what was it all for? Will anyone know that the human race had been here at all? Space flight isn't just about going to the moon its about stretching the human race into the vast universe to start colonies elsewhere. We might be talking 4.5 billion years from now or we could be talking about next week, the fact is the will not be here forever, that is a fact no one can dispute except the ignorant. We waste so much money on human-less space flight and visits to moons and other planets in a desperate attempt at finding micro-organisims to verify that life exists elsewhere anyone with half a brain doesn't need these flights because they know that of course life exists out there some where but the distantance to reaching them prevents us from ever finding it. We should be more concerned about extending the human race out to the stars so that it may survive until the end of the universe which is also coming without a doubt once the universe expands to an inconceivable distance it will be too late then because stars will no longer be visisble let alone reachable. Humans lack a quality they despeartley need imagination.

Welcome to SDC, and just a little thing...
No lack of imagination around here ... :lol:

 

[Keatah]

Re: Obama withdrawals funding for constellation

Until we can build ships like in star trek, then man has no business being in space. So much more can be accomplished with robotics.

 

[jakethesnake]

Re: Obama withdrawals funding for constellation

Obama’s vision or the lack there of for NASA…

No new vehicles of any kind in NASA’s future…

Truly a very SAD day for USA…


From the Orlando Sentinel:

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_s ... udget.html

Notes, Observations and Insight into the NASA budget:

NASA officials stress that this is not a strategic or tactical move. Those at the top believe this needs to be done. The mantra is that this represents NASA going back to its roots, recreating the agency as an engine of technology development and innovation. The aim is to move away from a program pursuing incremental advancement in heavy lift to real game changers.

The budget shows these are the big programs:

– ISS –operations, research and extensions

– Space Shuttle, flying out the manifest

– Technology Development

– Exploration precursor program (robotic flights)

Spending Highlights:

– $300 million plus up to current $18.7 billion budget in FY11

– $2 billion for Earth Science over five years

– $7.8 billion for Technology Development programs over five years.

The flagship enterprise will be developing on-orbit refueling and automated approaches and docking technologies. They will also spend lots on new approaches in first stage advancement and advances in space engines which the USA has lost (look at dependence on Russian engines.

– $6 billion for development of commercial crew capability over five years.

Lots of parallels are being drawn with how the federal government used mail contracts to develop the aviation industry.

– $3 billion for robotic “precursor missions” over five years.

– $3.1 billion for Heavy Lift Vehicle Research and advancement over five years

– $3 billion for Space Operations over five years.

Embe dded in this sum is money for Kennedy Space Center and Cape Canaveral Air Force Station to upgrade facilities to support commercial lift.

– $2.5 billion in Constellation termination costs.

All of the Constellation moon program is dead — ALL OF IT — including the Orion space capsule, which means there are really no plans for NASA to develop a big rocket that could go anywhere in the near future. The conclusion was that Constellation was “not executable” and therefore had to be killed. There will be instead a shift to heavy lift research and “technological advancement.

 

[xxsassxx31]

Re: Obama withdrawals funding for constellation

Shame on you Barack Obama. This is coming from a life-long Democrat who's only reason for voting for this President was the hopes of him advancing science as he was a "progressive pragmatist" rather than a "religious right winger". Wow, Neil deGrasse Tyson was really right, the Republican administration's actually have a record of supporting science and the space program more than the Democrats. The fact of the matter is society is already ignorant of the space program and what it has done for science in technology, particularly military and medical advancement. Young kids growing up should be aspired by America's innovations in space travel to become something greater than just for themselves, but for mankind.

I don't think that necessarily a bad thing to add a private off and venture into the private industry, as it creates entrepreneurship and most likely faster growth in the long term; but the fact of the matter is that it needs to be a gradual change that does not result in the demise of the NASA space program. We have already spent billions of dollars on our new rocket protocols which is near completion; and Barack Obama, the man of "change", is setting our nation and science backwards; and the fact of the matter is and like others have said, this is giving the upper hand of mankind and humanity to foreign powers. No one is mentioning is that we recently found water on the moon! If we want to survive as a civilization (us humans) then we must expand and travel our own solar system and find out what is beyond us. This discovery of water on the moon allows this possibility of a lunar base but Obama is taking it away from us. The problem is that this will set the space program back a minimum of a decade; and life is too short! I am 25, I don't want to wait until I am 35-40 to have the space program on its feet again! This is truly shameful for America and for all aspirations of the progress of mankind in our life time.

 

[Tritium]

Re: Obama withdrawals funding for constellation

Until we can build ships like in star trek, then man has no business being in space. So much more can be accomplished with robotics.

This is like saying that we shouldn't have had cars until we could build one like the ones we are driving today.All technology and manufacturing goes through a development,or an evolutionary process.The shuttles are a long way from sputnik.I was not completely thrilled with the Constellation Program,but I could see it as the next step towards getting humankind off of the planet and out into space,so that if nothing else,all of our eggs were not in one basket.Someone else mentioned the future possibility of a fatal asteroid colliding with the Earth,which is indeed probable.This is a very good reason to be working hard and fast on developing manned spacecraft which can carry us to the moon,and then Mars,and beyond.Each vehicle is more advanced than the one before it.

I've seen a design for a space-plane which would be a great way to get people,materials,and supplies up into LEO.From there,build a new space station capable of supporting enough personnel,and equipment to manufacture spacecraft to travel to the moon,and establish a moon-base,capable of launching a spacecraft to Mars,to establish a Mars Colony.The technology exists to create all of this.The main obstacle is funding.In an earlier post,I suggested that humankind banish all war,and use all of the finances the world spends on military funding to build this space program,and help 3rd world countries develop agriculture,grow food in the world's oceans using aquaculture,develop new medicines and vaccines and medical procedures using medical research ,and help develop new energy sources which would be Earth friendly ecologically.Of course I realize that this will not happen,because we are still half stuck in the stone age.

I do not mean to belittle robotics.We have gained an enormous amount of knowledge from all of the unmanned missions which have been sent throughout our solar system from our planet.And there is still an infinite amount of science knowledge to be obtained from further robotic probes we can build and send out into the universe with much less expense and less risk than a manned mission.

But to increase our survival chances as a species,we need to get human beings onto the moon,and Mars,and later to other moons and planets in our solar system.Eventually,I believe that we will reach outward and inhabit other solar systems within the Milky Way Galaxy .And one day,we may even reach into other galaxies,if we can unlock a means of traveling such vast distances with our future knowledge and technology.I believe that advances in physics will help us accomplish these goals eventually.But right now we need to keep pushing toward the advanced designs of manned spacecraft and advanced propulsion engines to get humanity spread out into our solar system.There will be financial rewards to be gained along the way,once we get going.The private sector,combined with the ongoing programs of the governments of the Earth now involved in space programs,will eventually pick up speed and get us there.It's just painful to see a viable program like Constellation bite the dust.

 

[aaron38]

Re: Obama withdrawals funding for constellation

I do take some issue with anyone saying America is losing it's access to space, when SpaceX is an American company. The gov't doesn't build airliners, do we say that America has no access to the Stratosphere just because Boeing is a private company? If SpaceX gets flying and uses the economy of scale to provide cost effective service to Bigelow Aerospace, Americans may have a much greater access to space than they do now.

And considering SpaceX will be flying the Dragon years before Orion would have been ready, I can't really say I'm that heartbroken over this. If Dragon is shuttling astronauts up to the ISS in 2012, what have we lost? NASA really does need to get out of the LEO taxi business. The solar system is massively huge, and there are much more interesting places to go than 120 miles up.

I guess the big question to be asked is, is there anything Orion was going to do that the Dragon capsule can't? Or couldn't be redesigned to do later on?

 

[mj1]

Re: Obama withdrawals funding for constellation

This seems like a good time for me to re-post my take on all of this. I have been saying for the past 6 months that NASA needs to get out of the LEO business and hand it over to private companies like SpaceX, helping them out where necessary. They do it better and cheape, that includes going to the moonr. The Obama budget dovetails with my feelings on this issue exactly. My reason for this is that I feel that NASA actually needs a new mission. That mision would be to take the next 30-40 years and actually build and plan a real mission to explore/colonize the Solar system with a manned ship or ships worthy of the task. My vision would have these ships designed to be built in space and launched from there perhaps at a lagrange point. The role private companies would fill here is to ferry men and material back and forth to LEO while the ship or ships are under construction. We'd take our time and do this right, not spending a whole lot of money in the short term anyways. Sure, this will take several decades to get there, many of us will not even live to see it. Our grandchildren will be crewing the ships. However, it will be a true stepping stone to the solar system and the stars.

 

[Jlspence]

Re: Obama withdrawals funding for constellation

What people need to grasp is that what is missing from Obama's new direction is a MISSION. How many have been following the space program long enough to remember the days of Next Generation Launch Technology (NGLT) and Space Launch Initiative (SLI)? What the administration has laid out sounds to me like the very same type of "make work" jobs program that NGLT and SLI were. Taxpayers poured many billions down that hole and ended up with nothing to show for it because there was no over-arching mission to guide the work.

 

[moonfie]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, and I kind of hate to point it out, but has anyone besides me noticed the significance of what day it is? Making the official announcement of cancelling Constellation on the anniversary of the Columbia disaster just seems to me, I don't know, kind of cruel, especially considering that if not for that unfortunate tragedy Constellation may never have been proposed. It just seems to be rubbing it in the faces of the Constellation supporters all the more. Not really especially relevent, I guess, but interesting to think about at least.

 

[Smersh]

This is very sad news and, other than posting a link to the story just given to me by Aunty Beeb here it's difficult for me to know what to say. Perhaps it's no great surprise really, following trillions of dollars disappearing down the plughole recently. So I guess one could say it's the "banksters'" faults. :roll:

If private enterprise now takes up the baton, I wouldn't be surprised if Sir Richard Branson gets involved. Perhaps he'll be organising tourist flights to the moon, maybe to see the Apollo landing sites. It'll be great if some hoax believers take the ride ...

 

[quatermass]

Hate to say it, but told ya' so. No Constellation, Ares, Orion - no US manned programme at all. But we shouldn't be surprised - Obama has done exactly what he said he'd do before he was elected. He's been as good as his word - you have to give him that. And note - there is very specifically no money for Direct or any other Shuttle derived vehicle. Anything Shuttle related is dead - and no amount of clever drawings, animations etc. will resurrect it. Production lines will close, engineers will leave, expertise will be lost, and it'll be Saturn V all over again. It's over - move on.

Problem is - move on to what? The best that can possibly happen under this "bold new vision" is been-there, done-that trips to LEO, for no rational purpose. Vital research on weightless cricket reproduction, crystal growth and a bigger IMAX camera. Seriously - it's over. Commercial involvement in space will be exactly that - commercial. If there's no profit to be made, it won't happen.
That's the cold reality of it - and if the money comes direct from the US government to private companies via NASA - that's not commercial, that's subsidy. Subsidised, LEO missile-and-capsule 'missions' to nowhere, for nothing. Forget Branson - he won't put money into the development of anything - he'll only buy stuff that already exists, so he can make money from it - he's a businessman, and it doesn't matter if it's suborbital hops, insurance policies, banking, CD's or flights - only interested if it turns a profit. But, that's the same for all commercial space - come up with timelines, plans, inflatable moon bases and rest if you like, but please also explain how it is these companies can make a profit out of it! What's the product?
Robot missions to the Moon - Surveyor, Ranger, Lunar Prospector, Clementine, LCROSS... how exciting will new missions be! Very inspiring to a new generation, I'm sure! As for shuttle replacements, or new vehicles of any sort - there's no mention. Nothing new, nothing shuttle-derived - nothing. Just a big, empty hole which will be filled by wishful thinking, sexy animations, tables of very plausible looking figures, but nothing will actually happen.
However, President Obama won't be there very long if the runes are read right - so in a few years' time, President Whatever will order another review, and announce another bold, new initiative, but by then it'll be too late - all the skills and experience will have drained out of NASA, and pads 39 A and B will be cold, derelict monuments to what happens when the spirit that got them built in the first place gets crushed by people with no soul, passion or vision. Just weeds, rust, silence and decay. It's a crying shame. So welcome to Obama's bold vision - banks go on as if nothing happened, loss-making car companies carry on as before, millions lose their jobs, and guess who pays for it all? You, your children, and their children too.

As for being branded "Chicken Little" by hopelessly naive space cadets - that really doesn't help. I don't know if you noticed, but Obama just cancelled your space programme under your noses, and miraculously sold it to you as being a good idea. Just do one thing - remember what got said, and when, and by who - and come back in ten years and describe what actually happened, and what became of all the lovely paper rockets.

 

[grg1]

Sadly; we are giving up the high ground! Having grown up during the space race I have come to expect our Gov't to pursue space exploration. Now it seems as if we are sticking our heads in the sand! Please sign me- extremely disapointed

 

[rcsplinters]

So that's it?

Yes, US manned space flight is by definition, over once the shuttle returns for the last time. As if now, we have no solution, no plan, no strategy, nothing to return us to space. We have a series of commercial ventures where the business models are so tenuous that they can't even get off the ground without billions in seed money. We have high sounding words that scrapped billions in investment in a technically viable solutions. We will see US cosmonaunts aboard the ISS, where we take our place beside the Japanese, Canadians, Europeans and other hitchhikers to that research facility.

So that's it?

Well not exactly. There is a possiblity that Congress will correct this act of executive stupidity and blindness. I won't hold my breath. There is also the nearly impossible outcome that enough funding will be provided to NASA to build a deep space option. Considering this travesty of a decision just pulled the plug on viable components of such a system, I'd say we'll see the next big asteriod and join the dinosaurs before that happens. There is also the possibility that this is just another thinly veiled step to "de-bushify" the country and Constellation or parts of it will simply resurface with the magic O'bama seal of approval. This latter option actually seems plausible.

If you have a kid interested in space flight, I'd recommend a good Russian language sequence and cultivate a taste for Vodka. All the opportunities here are gone and the store is closed.

 

[Valcan]

OK first off to this guy

SNAPPA49 wrote:
"The lack of understanding of "deep time" and the blight of religion on this planet will be the death of the human race."

First what the heck does that have to do with the space program. I have never heard a preacher or talked to a christan who demanded we get away from those evil space exploration sins. That is mearly you trying to push your bigotry onto others. The belief in god doesn't mean you cant believe in evolution or science. Alot of early reaserch was done BY those same evil church people. God in my opinion wants us to as he said go forth and multiply. I figure part of our reason for being here is to spread life and to protect it (stop huge rocks from breaking our planet.

So seriously none of the atheist "PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN GOD ARE STUPID AND HATE SCIENCE AND BOOKS...AND PUPPIES!" i get enough of that crap on New Scientist.

Now i like most of his idea's here (which is amazing i dont hate the guy just feel the same general loathing i do for all politicians. Especialy the push to design faster more powerful drives for ships. And for the in orbit refueling facilities.

Also like the push for made in america rocket engines.

Now Obama has a habbit if being a big talker of showing little hopefully this isnt so. If it is, well vote him out.

Heck maybe the next guy could get neil degrass tyson as the next head of Nasa. : )

 

[menellom]

Now i like most of his idea's here (which is amazing i dont hate the guy just feel the same general loathing i do for all politicians. Especialy the push to design faster more powerful drives for ships. And for the in orbit refueling facilities.

Also like the push for made in america rocket engines.

To be completely honest, and I imagine many of us may feel the same way. I don't know how I feel about the new proposal. On the one hand:
- Extending the ISS through 2020, maybe even beyond. The possibility of reviving unfinished or canceled modules as well as funding commercial modules and expanding the ISS significantly.

- Seriously focusing on propulsion development and solutions that could make interplanetary travel something realistic. A big plus in my book.

- Working with the private sector instead of trying to compete with it. Again, I like this idea - multiple companies competing means they have to constantly be coming up with better, more innovative ideas. I'm all for making LEO 'private space' (pun).

However, here's where my concerns come in. I don't like some of the implications of the new budget, especially the possibility that NASA might put off development of its own spacecraft. Of course I have faith in the private industry to come through, but it seems far too risky to go forward without a public sector backup plan in case they don't. If I were Obama and I were looking at ways to compromise and get more people on board, I'd consider letting NASA work on something like Direct, which would drastically reduce the job loss after the shuttle's retirement, and give us a great backup.

Heck maybe the next guy could get neil degrass tyson as the next head of Nasa. : )

Today NASA Administrator Tyson met with the President to unveil his $150 billion NASA budget proposal. :lol:

 

[unclejoe101]

A Plea for Sanity.

I am so relieved that the Constellation program was canceled, which I know many won't like to hear. Many of the comments on the forum and in other articles here are filled with panic-stricken, fear-mongering people who declare that all HSF (human space flight) has been destroyed. They say it's all over, which is consistent with their all-or-nothing attitudes. Many of them are blaming President Obama because that's who happens to be in front of their nose at the moment. They also tend to invoke the them-against-us argument, as if China is trying to steal the solar system away from them. The hysteria is actually quite sad. You don't have to live in fear and paranoia.

In my mind, President Obama has made a very difficult decision--but a very smart one. President Bush declared a return to the moon. O.k., I wasn't on board with that, but that was what NASA was tasked to do. So, NASA started trying to do it--without the money to do it, of course. Jobs were created under President Bush's deluded vision, and these jobs will be lost now. So, people who blame President Obama for the loss of jobs are quite certifiably insane. The Constellation program was doomed before it left the drawing board and misled people and betrayed them. So that, now, when a sensible President, who inherited a desolated economy, terrifying deficit and two foreign wars, now when this President makes the hard decision to stop the waste of Constellation--somehow people blame him for the loss of jobs. You don't use gasoline to put out a fire.

But, it's my sincere hope, that those jobs can be saved by the private industry that President Obama is trying to stimulate. For the 6th quarter in a row, manufacturing in the U.S. has seen positive growth. This is very good news! I hope and pray that those people who were betrayed by a deluded vision that they will find work with the up-and-coming companies and the companies already here--these are companies that are on the right track for LEO business. And, that, my friends, was the principle goal of Ares I and the Orion module.

So, what exactly are the goals and objectives for HSF without Ares and Orion? I don't know, but I remain hopeful and optimistic--especially in the face of death-to-us-all fear-mongering people who declare all is dead. No. I will not give in to your panic. I say NO.

We definitely have the ISS operational for the next decade. We definitely have rising stars in LEO rockets and crew modules from the private sector. We have a definite commitment from the president to increase NASA's budget. We definitely have allies in space exploration from around the world: ESA, Russia, and Japan. We definitely have the potential to do great things.

I look forward to our first NEO mission and a mission to Lagrange points and, eventually, to the moons of Mars. These are the missions that will define NASA in the 21st century.

Another generation will see these missions through, and it will be wonderful! I won't be there to see it, but that's o.k. with me. My generation saw Apollo land on the moon, an amazing thing. The next generations will see people land on an asteroid and the moons of Mars. Now that's something to go to school for, isn't it?

I believe that the finest hours of NASA will be sooner that we expect.

 

[Stephen123]

aaron38 wrote:

I do take some issue with anyone saying America is losing it's access to space, when SpaceX is an American company. The gov't doesn't build airliners, do we say that America has no access to the Stratosphere just because Boeing is a private company? If SpaceX gets flying and uses the economy of scale to provide cost effective service to Bigelow Aerospace, Americans may have a much greater access to space than they do now.

You are aware that Boeing builds airliners which are available for purchase and delivery TODAY. How many US corporations are building spaceliners which are available for NASA to purchase today as a replacement for the Orion?

In fact what US corporation is building, let alone flying, any spacecraft capable of replacing the Space Shuttle, let alone the Orion?

In essence what OBama would have the US buy is the space technology's equivalent of vapourware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware). That is, an announced product accompanied by all kinds of promises, lots of pretty pictures to show the prospective clientele what it would look like, and a spiel which generally goes along the lines of: if you give us money (lots of money), in a few years' time look at what we'll be able to deliver!

Not that Bush didn't pull the same stunt with Constellation. That is, Constellation was arguably vaporware itself. Bush discontinued an existing product (the Shuttle) which, for all its problems, was available today in favour of a mere promise of getting a nice new and shinier toy which was not.

A promise that has now turned to dust thanks to another politician with different plans, who has now come along trying to pull the same stunt.

And surprise, surprise some of the suckers are actually cheering!

Poor fools!

If Constellation, Ares, Orion, etc are now to vanish like your typical vapourware product what makes anybody think this latest ploy will survive long enough for any corporation to build anything capable of achieving flight status, especially if nobody delivers enough public funding to keep their own products afloat?

 

[controltestguy]

It's time for a change, people. In my earlier posts I supported the idea of developing faster, more efficient ways of getting around the solar system. Per Charles Bolden:

Faster space propulsion

"Obama proposed devoting some of NASA's budget toward developing new spaceflight technologies, including innovative methods of space propulsion. The plans specifically call for building faster ways of moving through space so that future manned trips might not take as long, require as many resources, or expose astronauts to so much space radiation.

"Imagine trips to Mars that take weeks instead of nearly a year; people fanning out across the inner solar system, exploring the moon, asteroids and Mars nearly simultaneously in a steady stream of firsts," NASA administrator Charles Bolden said Monday in a briefing on the new plans."

How long are we going to keep spewing tons of chemicals out the back end of a rocket just to barely make it into LEO? If we are going to a space-faring nation, the we've got to move into the 21st century. So what if it takes fifty years. It's the right thing to do.

I know that canceling the Constellation Program will affect jobs but in the long term we could turn our society towards space and in 20 years or so it could be it's own commercial industry employing millions of people supporting the move to colonize the solar system.

So let's not panic yet. Let's not worry about being 'first' at everything. Let's develop the technology and then see where it takes us. Once we have the technology to go anywhere we want around the solar system, we will leapfrog ahead of those who have less of a desire to explore.

NASA has lost it's way for the time being and it's time to ask ourselves 'where do we want to be in fifty years?' What do we want to leave our children and grandchildren?

CTG

 

[gonzoprototype]

aaron38 wrote:

I do take some issue with anyone saying America is losing it's access to space, when SpaceX is an American company. The gov't doesn't build airliners, do we say that America has no access to the Stratosphere just because Boeing is a private company? If SpaceX gets flying and uses the economy of scale to provide cost effective service to Bigelow Aerospace, Americans may have a much greater access to space than they do now.

You are aware that Boeing builds airliners which are available for purchase and delivery TODAY. How many US corporations are building spaceliners which are available for NASA to purchase today as a replacement for the Orion?

In fact what US corporation is building, let alone flying, any spacecraft capable of replacing the Space Shuttle, let alone the Orion?

In essence what OBama would have the US buy is the space technology's equivalent of vapourware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware). That is, an announced product accompanied by all kinds of promises, lots of pretty pictures to show the prospective clientele what it would look like, and a spiel which generally goes along the lines of: if you give us money (lots of money), in a few years' time look at what we'll be able to deliver!

Not that Bush didn't pull the same stunt with Constellation. That is, Constellation was arguably vaporware itself. Bush discontinued an existing product (the Shuttle) which, for all its problems, was available today in favour of a mere promise of getting a nice new and shinier toy which was not.

A promise that has now turned to dust thanks to another politician with different plans, who has now come along trying to pull the same stunt.

And surprise, surprise some of the suckers are actually cheering!

Poor fools!

If Constellation, Ares, Orion, etc are now to vanish like your typical vapourware product what makes anybody think this latest ploy will survive long enough for any corporation to build anything capable of achieving flight status, especially if nobody delivers enough public funding to keep their own products afloat?

Be honest -- did you actually read the new proposal? Normally vaporware is par for the course at NASA, but I fail to see how a massive investment in science and technology, focusing on things like new propulsion systems and "space gas stations" could possibly be vaporware. Is the next president going to come in and retroactively wipe out the scientific gains we will make?

This budget is exactly what NASA needed. Dump the dead weight, ditch the absurdly outdated Constellation mindset, and start a truly 21st century program, complete with technology that is more than just a bastardized version of Apollo-era tech.

 

[Salbacka]

HLV Plans?

I have read various sources that say that there will still be funding for a heavy lift vehicle program... anyone know if this means Ares V is still going to be funded or is there another HLV in the works that I don't know about? I am mainly interested in knowing about HLV as we need to get on developing a Hubble replacement and Ares V looked like the best candidate to launch the largest possible replacement as it has a larger payload diameter.

I am sad to see this program end. It may not have been the most decorated program but at least it was going somewhere. Now we have billions spent with little to show. It is tough to get anywhere when you have multiple drivers and they all want to go different places. Lets kick out the politicians and let NASA do the driving. That worked for Mercury-Apollo; we gave them a destination and they got there.