Origins and Big Bang

[Catastrophe]

Well since we are on the subject. Quantum electrodynamics holds the view that all-pervading vacuum continuously spawns particles and waves that spontaneously pop into and out of existence on an unimaginably short time scale. This flux of particles is frequently referred to as ‘quantum foam’ which is believed to extend throughout the universe.

Theorists are now being led to consider the possibility that our universe is, indeed, just one bubble among many in some greater meta-universe.’ Michio Kaku writes... These universes might be compared to a vast collection of soap bubbles suspended in air.”

The fun of Quantum Physics.

Truthseker 007

Thank you for that. It is a subject on which I have been clearly missing out on the fun, and on which I will take steps to rectify. Any chance of a twenty word summary on where dark matter and dark energy fit into this?

Cat

Oh, just a moment. My career was very much centred on surfactants (inc emulsifiers) which provide the surface tension necessary in such situations. Any idea where our cosmic surface tension might come from? Oh, err, dark matter and dark energy?

 

[Truthseeker007]

Truthseker 007

Thank you for that. It is a subject on which I have been clearly missing out on the fun, and on which I will take steps to rectify. Any chance of a twenty word summary on where dark matter and dark energy fit into this?

Cat

Oh, just a moment. My career was very much centred on surfactants (inc emulsifiers) which provide the surface tension necessary in such situations. Any idea where our cosmic surface tension might come from? Oh, err, dark matter and dark energy?

Oh wow! Now we are going deep. Well my own hypothesis is that dark matter is the matter of another dimension. Kind of like a ghost. Well that's 20 words.lol! I think even in the infinite amount of Universes in each Universe is 12 dimensions also and that dark matter maybe the 4th dimension.

But dark matter is an open question because nobody knows. Some other possibilities: Normal matter which has so far eluded our gaze, such as: dark galaxies, brown dwarfs, planetary material (rock, dust,etc.),massive neutrinos, Exotica. So take your pick.lol!

I am not sure what you mean by cosmic surface tension? Do you mean gravity?

 

[Catastrophe]

Oh wow! Now we are going deep. Well my own hypothesis is that dark matter is the matter of another dimension. Kind of like a ghost. Well that's 20 words.lol! I think even in the infinite amount of Universes in each Universe is 12 dimensions also and that dark matter maybe the 4th dimension.

But dark matter is an open question because nobody knows. Some other possibilities: Normal matter which has so far eluded our gaze, such as: dark galaxies, brown dwarfs, planetary material (rock, dust,etc.),massive neutrinos, Exotica. So take your pick.lol!

I am not sure what you mean by cosmic surface tension? Do you mean gravity?

Bubbles are held together by surfactants (inc soap) which forms the film. If a Universe "is" a bubble then the membrane surrounding the Universe (if there is one) would be what separated space (or space-time) from the external non-space. I might be getting sorry I started this. Gravity, presumably, would act towards the centre, whereas surface tension acts within the membrane. Gravity, if you like, which acts towards each component 'molecule' of the surface film - laterally instead of centrally. Any connection with dark whatevers?

Does that make any sort of sense?

Cat

 

[Truthseeker007]

Bubbles are held together by surfactants (inc soap) which forms the film. If a Universe "is" a bubble then the membrane surrounding the Universe (if there is one) would be what separated space (or space-time) from the external non-space. I might be getting sorry I started this. Gravity, presumably, would act towards the centre, whereas surface tension acts within the membrane. Gravity, if you like, which acts towards each component 'molecule' of the surface film - laterally instead of centrally. Any connection with dark whatevers?

Does that make any sort of sense?

Cat

I think the way you said that is brilliant! And yes that does make a lot of sense. I think you know more then you give yourself credit for because now my brain is even hurting. But I think that really helps in thinking of terms of bubbles and the Universe is also nature just like bubbles that you can see on a waterfall.

Also think about if you were on the Moon and how small the Earth would look in your view. Earth seems very big when we are in it but if we were on the outside looking at it, it would seem very small. "So as above so below". Now think about space and how big it is when we are in it. Now if you could get outside of this bubble of space it would seem very small. Sorry I might have gotten of track a bit but that popped in my head.lol! I can't remember where I seen it and even are brain looks kind of like a universe. We are even little universes on our own but are endless to an amoeba or bacteria.

 

[Truthseeker007]

Bubbles are held together by surfactants (inc soap) which forms the film. If a Universe "is" a bubble then the membrane surrounding the Universe (if there is one) would be what separated space (or space-time) from the external non-space. I might be getting sorry I started this. Gravity, presumably, would act towards the centre, whereas surface tension acts within the membrane. Gravity, if you like, which acts towards each component 'molecule' of the surface film - laterally instead of centrally. Any connection with dark whatevers?

Does that make any sort of sense?

Cat

I forgot to mention on the most easy explanation I heard of gravity is when a mass is present in the above space-time it distorts it so that whilst it remains true that travelling through space causes you to travel through time, travelling through time now causes you to move (accelerate) through space. In other words just by existing, you are compelled to move through space - this is gravity.

 

[Catastrophe]

I think the way you said that is brilliant! And yes that does make a lot of sense. I think you know more then you give yourself credit for because now my brain is even hurting. But I think that really helps in thinking of terms of bubbles and the Universe is also nature just like bubbles that you can see on a waterfall.

Also think about if you were on the Moon and how small the Earth would look in your view. Earth seems very big when we are in it but if we were on the outside looking at it, it would seem very small. "So as above so below". Now think about space and how big it is when we are in it. Now if you could get outside of this bubble of space it would seem very small. Sorry I might have gotten of track a bit but that popped in my head.lol! I can't remember where I seen it and even are brain looks kind of like a universe. We are even little universes on our own but are endless to an amoeba or bacteria.

OK I will dive in further. "just like bubbles that you can see on a waterfall."
There are (at least) two kinds of bubbles. The bubbles in the waterfall are very short-lived - a transient product of energy. Those formed of surfactants (short for surface active agents or agents which act at surfaces) have this stabilising film which makes them, err... stable. That's why detergents cause foam on rivers. (I have edited a book in the Marcel Dekker Surfactant Science Series).

So maybe some Universes are more 'stable' than others because they contain dark matter (instead of none)?

Cat (Maybe named thus by my parents because I had four legs and a tail, and kept spilling the milk?).

Actually, it just popped into my head that dark matter might be matter acting at right angles to 'ordinary' matter (like surface tension acting along surfaces at right angles to gravity reacting centrally). Perhaps that just means the same as being in a different dimension so not really very original.

 

[Truthseeker007]

OK I will dive in further. "just like bubbles that you can see on a waterfall."
There are (at least) two kinds of bubbles. The bubbles in the waterfall are very short-lived - a transient product of energy. Those formed of surfactants (short for surface active agents or agents which act at surfaces) have this stabilising film which makes them, err... stable. That's why detergents cause foam on rivers. (I have edited a book in the Marcel Dekker Surfactant Science Series).

So maybe some Universes are more 'stable' than others because they contain dark matter (instead of none)?

Cat (Maybe named thus by my parents because I had four legs and a tail, and kept spilling the milk?).

Actually, it just popped into my head that dark matter might be matter acting at right angles to 'ordinary' matter (like surface tension acting along surfaces at right angles to gravity reacting centrally). Perhaps that just means the same as being in a different dimension so not really very original.

I give you a 10 on your dive! That could be a part of what dark matter does. So here is a question for you. If the universe is expanding, does that mean atoms are getting bigger?

The jobs you have had sound very interesting. I have never heard of the Marcel Dekker Surfactant Science Series.

You must have been a bad kitty spilling all that milk all the time!My cat always wants to drink the water out of my glass if I have it on the table.

Well another interesting thing about Dark Matter is We only see 0.01 M out of 0.05 M baryonic matter in the Universe. The rest must be in baryonic dark matter halos surrounding galaxies. And there must be some non-baryonic dark matter to account for the remaining 95% of the matter required to give Ω, the mass of the Universe, in units of critical mass, equal to unity. I thought I would just throw that out there.

 

[Catastrophe]

Truthseeker007

"If the universe is expanding, does that mean atoms are getting bigger."

I wondered about that. Seems galaxies aren't so atoms should not either. If everything in the Universe expanded, as well as the Universe itself, then we would not know anything was expanding. If our rulers expanded equally they would always show the same?

As far as the rest is concerned, I shall need a lot more aspirin for my headache.

Cat

 

[Truthseeker007]

Truthseeker007

"If the universe is expanding, does that mean atoms are getting bigger."

I wondered about that. Seems galaxies aren't so atoms should not either. If everything in the Universe expanded, as well as the Universe itself, then we would not know anything was expanding. If our rulers expanded equally they would always show the same?

As far as the rest is concerned, I shall need a lot more aspirin for my headache.

Cat

I think your answer is correct. You win a free Cat treat.

To make it even more complicated We have two competing effects: on the one hand, the overall mass of the universe tends to slow the expansion over time. On the other hand, the mysterious dark energy tends to accelerate it.

Coffee might do the trick.lol!

 

[Catastrophe]

"To make it even more complicated We have two competing effects"

Ah, but are they competing or just at right angles?

 

[Truthseeker007]

"To make it even more complicated We have two competing effects"

Ah, but are they competing or just at right angles?

I never was good at Geometry. You would have to explain the right angles to me because I am lost on that one.lol!

 

[Catastrophe]

Right angles means 90 degrees or L-shaped. The forces along the L bits are neither pulling together nor apart. So going north (up the letter L) does not affect going east or west (along the L). <- -> would be 2 x 90 degrees or pulling apart.

So going N or S does not compete with going E or W.

 

[Truthseeker007]

Right angles means 90 degrees or L-shaped. The forces along the L bits are neither pulling together nor apart. So going north (up the letter L) does not affect going east or west (along the L). <- -> would be 2 x 90 degrees or pulling apart.

So going N or S does not compete with going E or W.

Thanks for that explanation.

Reading that makes me wonder though. I wonder if you would go out of this Universe the same way you leave Earth by going up? But since there is no ground in space I wonder what would happen if you went down. But I am trying to picture when you look out at night at space from the Earth what part of space are we looking at? N,S,E.W?

 

[Catastrophe]

"Reading that makes me wonder though. I wonder if you would go out of this Universe the same way you leave Earth by going up? But since there is no ground in space I wonder what would happen if you went down. But I am trying to picture when you look out at night at space from the Earth what part of space are we looking at? N,S,E.W?"

EEEk! You are giving me another headache.

Imagine when you are standing on Earth that the Earth is flat. Now N,S,E and W are easy. OK?

Now imagine you are somewhere else on Earth, the same would apply.

This works on Earth or any celestial body assumingyou have a compass (and it is magnetic.
If it is not magnetic you will have to define an arbitrary frame of reference.

If you are not standing on ground somewhere NSEW cease to have any meaning. You can either settle for 'up' or adopt something like the heavens where you have Right Ascension (angle from a zero starting point like N is zero on a compass) which is around (from a defined flat plane) and Declination which is the angle up or down.

 

[Catastrophe]

Sorry, missed a bit. ""Reading that makes me wonder though. I wonder if you would go out of this Universe the same way you leave Earth by going up?"

Going up is like leaving the 'flat' Earth i.e., leaving 2 dimensions.
Leaving the Universe would be like leaving 3 space dimensions since, as you suggest, there is no flat plane to start from.

 

[Truthseeker007]

"Reading that makes me wonder though. I wonder if you would go out of this Universe the same way you leave Earth by going up? But since there is no ground in space I wonder what would happen if you went down. But I am trying to picture when you look out at night at space from the Earth what part of space are we looking at? N,S,E.W?"

EEEk! You are giving me another headache.

Imagine when you are standing on Earth that the Earth is flat. Now N,S,E and W are easy. OK?

Now imagine you are somewhere else on Earth, the same would apply.

This works on Earth or any celestial body assumingyou have a compass (and it is magnetic.
If it is not magnetic you will have to define an arbitrary frame of reference.

If you are not standing on ground somewhere NSEW cease to have any meaning. You can either settle for 'up' or adopt something like the heavens where you have Right Ascension (angle from a zero starting point like N is zero on a compass) which is around (from a defined flat plane) and Declination which is the angle up or down.

Nothing like getting the ol brain moving.

That sounds about right. That is a great explanation. Gosh it really would be amazing to go to space. I guess the only way we really can go is through our consciousness. I have had some cool dreams about space. Although I remember one of them I somehow jumped off the moon and was floating around in space. I had a really vivid dream of the moon once where there are buildings on the inside of it and rooms. It was pretty interesting and fun.

 

[Catastrophe]

Nothing like getting the ol brain moving. nd 101.

That sounds about right. That is a great explanation. Gosh it really would be amazing to go to space. I guess the only way we really can go is through our consciousness. I have had some cool dreams about space. Although I remember one of them I somehow jumped off the moon and was floating around in space. I had a really vivid dream of the moon once where there are buildings on the inside of it and rooms. It was pretty interesting and fun.

That sounds pretty good. Post just arrived and may be long lost Just About Space 100 Back in 5 minutes ...

 

[Catastrophe]

Nothing like getting the ol brain moving.

That sounds about right. That is a great explanation. Gosh it really would be amazing to go to space. I guess the only way we really can go is through our consciousness. I have had some cool dreams about space. Although I remember one of them I somehow jumped off the moon and was floating around in space. I had a really vivid dream of the moon once where there are buildings on the inside of it and rooms. It was pretty interesting and fun.

Do you subscribe to All About Space?

 

[Catastrophe]

I have been reading some articles about Moon and Mars colonisation. Best see if there are any relevant threads to discuss it. It would be a bit off topic here!

Cat

 

[Truthseeker007]

Do you subscribe to All About Space?

No. What is it a website?

 

[Truthseeker007]

I have been reading some articles about Moon and Mars colonisation. Best see if there are any relevant threads to discuss it. It would be a bit off topic here!

Cat

Yea they don't seem to like if you get off topic. There may be some threads about that and feel free to message me to talk about things off topic.

 

[Catastrophe]

"All about Space" is a very good magazine. I also like the US Astronomy, which usually has a couple of good deep articles each month.

 

[Catastrophe]

Just noticed "Quantum electrodynamics holds the view that all-pervading vacuum continuously spawns particles and waves that spontaneously pop into and out of existence "

That is beginning to sound a bit like Hoyle's continuous creation.

 

[Truthseeker007]

"All about Space" is a very good magazine. I also like the US Astronomy, which usually has a couple of good deep articles each month.

Nice! I forgot all about magazines. I used to get guitar magazines. That is the last type I got.

 

[Truthseeker007]

Just noticed "Quantum electrodynamics holds the view that all-pervading vacuum continuously spawns particles and waves that spontaneously pop into and out of existence "

That is beginning to sound a bit like Hoyle's continuous creation.

I think it was even the ancient Hindu Vedas that said the universe appears and disappears every quadrillionth of a second.