Phobos & Deimos Type D asteroids?

3488 · Nov 28, 2007

Very interesting development in the study of the Mars moons Phobos & Deimos. Are they from the outer Asteroid Belt & among the oldest objects in the Solar System? Phobos & Deimos Type D asteroids? Earlier paper (2003) outlining Deimos as being of type D. Is the Tagish Lake Meteorite a fragment from a Type D asteroid? NASA Astrobiology article. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Nov 28, 2007

Interesting indeed. However, there is no proof they are D asteroids, and to be perfectly honest, despite the likelyhood based on their composition, a capture mechanism for them to become moons of mars is mighty hard to come by. It's darn near impossible. Not impossible, mind you, but darn close. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> Hopefully, when we visit them more closely, things will become clearer. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

qso1 · Nov 29, 2007

Don't know about asteroid types but I wondered if they may have been captured asteroids when the Images of Gaspra and Ida IIRC were released and I noticed similarities between them and the martian moons. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

3488 · Nov 29, 2007

Hi MeteorWayne, I fully understand your doubts. I agree, it does seem very difficult. However, the similarities between Phobos, Deimos, type D asteroids & the spectral similarities with some of Jupiter's small outermost moons like Sinope, Pasiphae, Ananke, Erinome, etc, (type C & Ds) does seem to be more than just a coincidence, but that is my own opinion, rather than perhaps based on true science. I would love Phobos & Deimos to be captured type Ds, but as you correctly say, with the information to hand, we cannot say that with 100% certainty. BTW, what is your take on Phobos & Deimos? Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Nov 29, 2007

Hi qso 1. The appearance is striking. Appearance of course is not everything. Phobos, Phobos, Phobos, wall of Stickney Crater, Phobos, giant boulders, Phobos, 85 metre wide boulder, Phobos, 85 metre boulder again, Phobos linear striations. Deimos, Deimos, Deimos, Deimos, ultra close up, 2 metre resolution. Type S (silicate asteroids). Orbit of 951 Gaspra. 951 Gaspra, 951 Gaspra, 951 Gaspra during approach. Orbit of 243 Ida. http://photo</safety_wrapper <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Nov 29, 2007

I'm not sure that really means too much, though it might. Certainly Gaspra looks a lot like Phobos, but small objects that get whacked will tend to look alike. Does anyone know of a source that shows the orbits of Phobos and Diemos around Mars? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

why06 · Nov 29, 2007

If I may ask without such a derivation from the course... I am not familiar with asteroid types. Type S is (silicate asteroids) and Type C is (Carbonancerous asteroids). Now I infer that asteroids are classified based on their primary components. So what is the defining element of a Type D? thanks in advance. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ </div><div><ul><li>your move...</li></ul></div> </div>

R1 · Nov 29, 2007

good question, classifications go even as far as around X criteria for their type can include their albedo But specifically what all determines a D type I don't know. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

why06 · Nov 29, 2007

There's probalbly some big long list somewhere on the NASA website Im guessing, but I really dont want to go look at that. <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ </div><div><ul><li>your move...</li></ul></div> </div>

3488 · Nov 29, 2007

Hi why06, Good question that I have an answer for. Type D asteroids, appear to be very primitive Type Cs, even less evolved, no evidence of heating, so likely formed through Cold Accretion (a common factor with type Cs too), but also appear to be hydrated, with a proportionaly high amount of ice (Phobos & Deimos likely to be exempt from this, as too close to the Sun, but still share the hydrated signature), appear reddish (type Cs are greyish) & also appear to be rich in pre-organic chemistry. In a way, type Ds may be part of the link between asteroids & comets. Notable examples include 944 Hidalgo (very eccentric orbit), & the largest Jupiter Trojan, 624 Hektor. 2060 Chiron (although more likely to be more like the Saturn moon Phoebe) & 5145 Pholus (very Red indeed) may also be part of this link between asteroids & comets. This is why I really hope, it can be proven in time that Phobos & Deimos are of type D. If so, we will have a window on some extremely primitive solar system chemistry. Also related to the Type Cs & Ds are the type Bs. These also are very primitive (Deimos was suggested of being of this type, but is now known not to be), but the second largest asteroid 2 Pallas is one as is the Mars Crosser 5261 Eureka. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Nov 30, 2007

This will have to do till I recall where my better reference is. A type: Very few have ever been discovered and are believed to contain an abundant amount of olivine. C type: approximately three-quarters of the asteroids visible from Earth belong to this category. C type asteroids appear to be similar to the carbonaceous meteorites and are believed to be the most primitive materials in the solar system because they seem to be unaltered since the planets' formations. These asteroids are unaltered because they are dark in color, thus revealing their hydrocarbon content. This hydrocarbon content shows evidence of containing water that has not been melted since they first formed. D type: These are redder in color than the P type asteroids and remain a mystery to scientists. E type These contain a high concentration of enstatite. Enstatite is a compound, white-brown or pale green in color. M type: These asteroids are very rare because they contain an iron-nickel alloy. They appear to be 'melted' for there are indications of volcanic lava flow on the surface. P type: they have a reddish tinge and are currently unknown in composition. S type: These asteroids are considered to make up 15% of the total population. They appear to contain silicate minerals pyroxene and olivine as well as considerable amount of metals. It is believed that they are related to the stony-iron meteorites or the ordinary chondritic meteorites. MW: The S type is proposed as the type of the Batista family which may have led to the K-T impactor/ From here <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Dec 2, 2007

This is why the encounter with type M, Asteroid 21 Lutetia, with the Rosetta spacecraft will be so important on: Saturday 10th July 2010. 21 Lutetia is the second largest known type M, approx 120 KM across. In many respects, this encounter is likely to be more important than the mission's primary target Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

alokmohan · Dec 3, 2007

Type D or not type D is the question now.Do we digress>

bdewoody · Dec 4, 2007

You can show the orbit of the moons in Celestia <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Bob DeWoody </div>

qso1 · Dec 5, 2007

Keep in mind, I just mentioned they had some similarities. One source of Phobos or Deimos orbits would be Starry Night software but online you might want to try the solar system sim at http://space.jpl.nasa.gov/ You'll have to plug in some numbers but it should do the trick. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> My borrowed quote for the time being:There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened. </div>

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