Phoenix Mars Lander Extended Mission. Sol 90+ & R.I.P Sol 157.

3488 · Aug 27, 2008

Following a suggestion from freya, thought I would take a lead & start the Mission Extension Thread.Phoenix Surface Mission has been extended by 34 sols to Sol 124 / Tuesday 30th September 2008 & may last into October, November or even longer.Martian Northern Seasons for next Martian Year:Autumn Equinox: Friday 26th December 2008 / Boxing Day.Winter Solstice: Friday 22nd May 2009.Spring Equinox: Tuesday 27th October 2009.Summer Solstice: Thursday 13th May 2010.The Sun WILL NOT rise at all for Phoenix from: Monday 6th April 2009 to Monday 6th July 2009 inclusive. Phoenix Surface Mission thread, which covered the entire 90 Sol primary mission in Scandia Colles.I'll start with the below.http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=25263&cID=252Sol 90 @ 00:51 HRS LMST 'Sunrise'. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/15/5/2f65f361-72c3-4cd3-b5b7-7024602460a2.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Sol 91. First Sol of extended mission.   Looks like the extended mission kicks off with frost monitoring. -16.74 Alt, 126.05 Azm Sol 91 at 01.12 HRS LMST.  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/11/1bedd140-dc70-4de7-9b98-4b1c33d3ecb9.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  -16.74 Alt, 126.05 Azm Sol 91 at 01.20 HRS LMST. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/12/7b9fcc94-1fc3-49f9-9c70-8795f79e2bd6.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Current situation is TEGA Oven #7 is currently going through a run with a small sample from just above the ice rich regolith layer. MECA beaker 3 will shortly be starting a run. The SSI (Surface Stereo Imager) is embarking on an ambitious full resolution 360 degree panorama using all 13 filters on the filter wheel, (unlikely to complete, but hopefully will capture all points of interest) as well as images of added interest, such as 'dusk / dawn' shots, atmospheric observing, clouds, dust hazes, frost monitoring, etc. Weather monitoring is continuing, using the MET / LIDAR supplied by Canada. The microscope imagery of dust & / or ice will continue.Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

centsworth_II · Aug 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>....Current situation is TEGA Oven #7 is currently going through a run with a small sample from just above the ice rich regolith layer. MECA beaker 3 will shortly be starting a run..... Posted by 3488</DIV> Of course all the TEGA samples (which fill the tiny oven) are the same size.<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" />  (Actually I don't know if the oven needs to be full to run, or if an almost full, or even half full oven will run.)As mentioned in the quote below, the sample that is being analysed in MECA beaker #3 is from deeper than any other sample.  Seven inches deep, and not hitting ice yet! I'm looking forward to seeing how deep they can get.  I wonder if they will use the final MECA beaker to analyse a sample from even deeper in Stone Soup.And, I'm waiting for them to get an ice sample into TEGA!   Digs Deeper As Third Month Nears End "Phoenix's main task for Sol 90 is to scoop up a sample of soil from the bottom of a trench called 'Stone Soup,' which is about 18 centimeters, or 7 inches deep.... When digging near a polygon center, Phoenix has hit a layer of icy soil, as hard as concrete, about 5 centimeters, or 2 inches, beneath the ground surface. In the Stone Soup trench at a polygon margin, the digging has not yet hit an icy layer like that." <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Aug 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> Digs Deeper As Third Month Nears End "Phoenix's main task for Sol 90 is to scoop up a sample of soil from the bottom of a trench called 'Stone Soup,' which is about 18 centimeters, or 7 inches deep.... When digging near a polygon center, Phoenix has hit a layer of icy soil, as hard as concrete, about 5 centimeters, or 2 inches, beneath the ground surface. In the Stone Soup trench at a polygon margin, the digging has not yet hit an icy layer like that." Posted by centsworth_II</DIV> OT but cute....Ironically, I am currently asking to use a "Stone Soup" (the Comic Strip) strip to highlight my Perseid article in the next issue of NJAA's Astronotes.http://www.gocomics.com/stonesoup/2008/08/20 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Aug 27, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>OT but cute....Ironically, I am currently asking to use a "Stone Soup" (the Comic Strip) strip to highlight my Perseid article in the next issue of NJAA's Astronotes.http://www.gocomics.com/stonesoup/2008/08/20 Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Good for you Wayne. it's one way of getting your work known & to highlight the work done at the NJAA.  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/10/3d734443-c890-46b6-aa41-fb54d9d16717.Medium.gif" alt="" />  Work Area after Sol 90. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/2/0/425ef101-1157-4634-a0c6-d14803513fbe.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Aug 27, 2008

Sun behind Robotic Arm Sol 91 at 18:30 LMST <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/11/d52908cb-4f3f-49aa-ab55-e9563acc2d43.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Is frost beginning to persist all Sol in a few pockets now?Azm 199.95 degrees Sol 91 at 14:25 LMST. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/12/8a02bdbd-0ba9-4c64-9c03-68ec1b532ff4.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

Mee_n_Mac · Aug 28, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>  Seven inches deep, and not hitting ice yet! I'm looking forward to seeing how deep they can get.  I wonder if they will use the final MECA beaker to analyse a sample from even deeper in Stone Soup.And, I'm waiting for them to get an ice sample into TEGA!   Posted by centsworth_II</DIV> Yeah to both points above.  Does anyone know what the plan is re: digging in the inter-polygon region ?  I think there's a lot to be learned simply by digging a bit, imaging the result and then repeating the process every, I dunno 0.5 cm, until hard ice is (apparently) hit.  I'm worried that power/time might run out before a complete excavation could be done.  What depths have been imaged so far.That said I prolly should have more faith in the team that's been thinking about this stuff for far longer and more deeply than I have. ps - ScribbleNotes, ScribbleNotes, I want my ScribbleNotes .... <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" />  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> -----------------------------------------------------Ask not what your Forum Software can do do on you,Ask it to, please for the love of all that's Holy, STOP ! </div>

3488 · Aug 28, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Yeah to both points above.  Does anyone know what the plan is re: digging in the inter-polygon region ?  I think there's a lot to be learned simply by digging a bit, imaging the result and then repeating the process every, I dunno 0.5 cm, until hard ice is (apparently) hit.  I'm worried that power/time might run out before a complete excavation could be done.  What depths have been imaged so far.That said I prolly should have more faith in the team that's been thinking about this stuff for far longer and more deeply than I have. ps - ScribbleNotes, ScribbleNotes, I want my ScribbleNotes ....   Posted by Mee_n_Mac</DIV>Hi Mee_n_Mac,Sounds like a great plan that would work. So far appox 18 CM has been excavated, though I do not have the actual figures as yet (I will try & obtain them).It wil be interesting to see how deep the scoop has get before rock hard ice is reached in the boundary. Hi all,Not too much has been imaged of interest this sol, mostly the Wind Teller.Does look like more frost in the morning of Sol 92. Alt -16.73 Azm 126.05 degrees. Sol 92 at 07.42 HRS LMST. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/0/2/107b3941-62bd-4c7f-b202-2132b8fd6d6b.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Aug 29, 2008

Pile of regolith left by Scoop. <a href="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Forums/#" title="Click to view a larger photo" onclick="return gSiteLife.LoadForumPage('ForumImage', 'plckPhotoId', '7df734dd-43f3-445a-87c0-33e0e208f107', 'plckRedirectUrl', gSiteLife.EscapeValue(window.location.href));"><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/7/7df734dd-43f3-445a-87c0-33e0e208f107.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></a>Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

freya · Aug 29, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Pile of regolith left by Scoop.Andrew Brown. Posted by 3488</DIV>Tell me if I'm wrong, but I do believe this is the first bit of architecture (ignoring landers and etc), built on another planet. Sure it's a pile of dirt, but it's starting to look fairly substantial and has been heaped in a deliberate manner. It's an impressive sandcastle. Sure, the coming ices may erase mans first Martian building in short order, but this mission is getting bigger by the day. Congrats to all for another first. Thanks Andrew, for the great work.Gaz  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Aug 29, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Tell me if I'm wrong, but I do believe this is the first bit of architecture (ignoring landers and etc), built on another planet. Sure it's a pile of dirt, but it's starting to look fairly substantial and has been heaped in a deliberate manner. It's an impressive sandcastle. Sure, the coming ices may erase mans first Martian building in short order, but this mission is getting bigger by the day. Congrats to all for another first. Thanks Andrew, for the great work.Gaz  Posted by freya</DIV>Hi freya,I had not thought of it like that, but then my solitary brain cell isn't capable of any real thought!!!!!!! But yes, I suppose it is. The scoop could just as well as scatter the spoil evenly outside of the trench areas. The pile of soil is also serving another purpose which suggests to me another reason for the conical piles being deliberate.That is, there are no large boulders close by to cast deep long shadows, necessary for the obervation of frost development & sublimation. There is a very large boulder at Azm 151.58 degrees, but that is probably too far away for his purpose. I have noticed the scene at Alt -16.74 deg Azm 125.05 deg is used for frost monitoring, probably because there are sizable rocks & differing textures & well as being photogenic in differing illumination. Thanks for your compliment. I have thoroughly enjoyed this mission & I had a personal involvement withing the campaign to overturn the permanent cancellation of the Mars Surveyor 2001 Lander mission, that became The Phoenix Mars Lander. Hi all,Looks like more frames towards the monster Pan. Sol 93.Sol Azm 186.64 deg Sol 93. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/8/9/b82a725c-d637-4170-a9b8-c0e13dc4feba.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Worth noting that Phoenix is down to 2.5 KW HRS now, lost a KW Hrs since landing, due to the lowering Sun. Also night time temperatures are showing an average drop of 6 C / 9.8 F since the Solstice. Now they are approaching -85 C / -121 F down from an average of -79 C / -110.2 F.Phoenix's end game is approaching, but how long? So far the situation is not looking bad. Phoenix requires 1 KW Hrs for operation, so she can still afford to drop another 1.5 KW Hrs. Wonder if that power requirement is for the full function of Phoenix or just for survival, low consumption acitivies, such as imagery, weather monitoring etc, not using TEGA or the Arm. Also the Wind Teller has been busy this Sol. Perhaps getting a little windier? Wind Teller Sol 93 at 09:51 Hrs LMST.   <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/11/0171d746-5763-40cc-bb7e-019d1fb332b3.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

freya · Aug 30, 2008

Right on, and I must admit, I never thought that the piling of the sand is serving the purpose of measuring the mechanical properties of the Martian soil (via angle of repose). Quite a steep angle we have here too. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

exoscientist · Aug 30, 2008

90 Days on Mars: Phoenix Lander Sends Martian Postcard. By Tariq Malik SPACE.com Senior Editor posted: 28 August 2008 6:51 pm ET "As the sun dips lower in the Martian sky with each passing day, NASA's solar-powered Phoenix Mars Lander took time this week to send a postcard of sorts to scientists on Earth after more than three months studying the red planet. "Phoenix beamed home a view of its trench-filled worksite after surpassing the 90-day mark of its initial mission to hunt for water ice buried beneath the barren arctic plains of Mars. While the Martian days, or sols, are getting colder and the sun expected to dip completely below the horizon tonight for the first time since Phoenix landed in late May, the probe itself is in fine health, mission managers said. "It's doing fabulously," said Barry Goldstein, NASA's Phoenix project manager at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. "But I've made it clear to the science team that the warranty's over."" http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080828-phoenix-postcard.html A little disconcerting though to read the comments posted after that article on Space.com. Most of us here on this forum are glad of any tidbit of info that comes from our space probes on Mars. Some interesting info that still might be revealed from Phoenix: 1.)The TECP results have not been reported yet. This has the potential to show that liquid water in the form of brines exists at the Phoenix site. The ever increasing water ice frost deposits might be good places to check for this. 2.)The atomic force microscope has just released its first images. The size of the particles detected are about the size of clay particles. Does it have the capability to determine if they actually are clay particles? 3.)TEGA has not yet detected organics. But the release of CO2 only at high temperatures at least raises the possibility they could be there. Provable detection of organics would be major big story. 4.)Clouds over Phoenix are increasing in size and density. Could we see by the end of the mission water ice snow on Mars? Others? Bob Clark <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Aug 31, 2008

Hi Bob, great to see you again here.Yes I agree. The Sol 95 images coming in right now confirm much thicker cloud formation & certainly more early morning frost.Regarding comments on the SDC front page articles, there are a lot of uninformed woo woos & trolls posting comments. I do not take any notice anymore of that banter. Tariq Malik is a very good writer & it is very rude to him, the rubbish that is posted in the comments section. Fortunately on these threads, we are able to & do rise above that & can see what is being achieved. Phoenix has been a huge success, far in excess than those trolls seem to give credit for. It takes time for the TEGA, MECA & full SSI products to come through. I would rather wait for accurate information to be published rather than some half cocked false reporting that generates rumours as AW / ST did a while back, purporting a White House Briefing that did not even exist.It will be some time before they live that one down. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/7/f5be67c8-213f-4aa6-b7e4-78c423df6756.Medium.gif" alt="" />  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/12/439a6785-a0f9-41cf-bc0f-8ca6188e009c.Medium.gif" alt="" /> #<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/15/c718a98c-cf97-49a1-bff8-3249cd54c13f.Medium.gif" alt="" />#  Hi all, as Bob Clarke said above, clouds are getting denser.Sol 95 at 02:43 LMST clouds. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/15/7/ff74ea0f-ce44-41ac-b78c-09d5820be61c.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Alt - 16.73 deg Azm 126.05 at 02:35 LMST Sol 95.Also note how the shadows are becoming muted, where as around the solstice, by this time in the very early morning, they were already sharp. There is clearly frost also. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/1/ca0cd868-0482-4bea-91b5-e3822f5bc400.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  It would be really good to get some sunset / sunrise images, perhaps Martian parhelia may be visible now????? I wonder though Bob, would the frost be brines? I would have thought it would be pure H2O??? Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

brandbll · Aug 31, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>That is, there are no large boulders close by to cast deep long shadows, necessary for the obervation of frost development & sublimation. Andrew Brown.  Posted by 3488</DIV> Did they expect more boulders like that to be around closer to the targeted landing site?  Or is it just sort of an after the fact thing that once they discovered the frost it would have been nicer to land closer to bigger rocks? On side note: i saw that line of article comments with all the garbage, first time i've checked those out.  Funny thing is, i expected that having that article 'comment feature' would detract from these discussions on the forums by pulling away activity, when in fact it appears to have worked as a nice little troll filter. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard! </div>

3488 · Aug 31, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Did they expect more boulders like that to be around closer to the targeted landing site?  Or is it just sort of an after the fact thing that once they discovered the frost it would have been nicer to land closer to bigger rocks? On side note: i saw that line of article comments with all the garbage, first time i've checked those out.  Funny thing is, i expected that having that article 'comment feature' would detract from these discussions on the forums by pulling away activity, when in fact it appears to have worked as a nice little troll filter. Posted by brandbll</DIV>Hi brandbll, good question & post.It was decided from day 1 of landing site selection that the area would be as boulder free as is possible. Being a powered landing like the Vikings, rather than air bags like Mars Pathfinder & the MERs, a fairly smooth site was essential. Ground clearance was 45 CM IIRC.The Mars Polar Lander failure has never been explained 100%, the most popular theory being that the descent thrusters shut off some 40 metres above the surface as the radar changed modes from altitude to landing mode, the computer misread a switch, that flipped when the lander legs were opened some 11,000 metres above the surface, on the sensors stating that the craft landed when it fact the ground was still 40 metres below. However that is theory, not proven fact. There is the chance the descent was flawless, but MPL landed & tipped over on a large boulder. Until we find the wreckage, it is still supposition, but cannot be ruled out.Worth mentioning Viking 1 missed the Big Joe boulder by only 8 metres, which would have tipped Viking 1 over had she came down on top of it.Big Joe boulder, Viking 1. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/6/41308f3f-1f32-4879-861c-ec0e3ce038d4.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> The Sweet Spot in Green Valley, Scandia Colles for Phoenix, was deemed safe enough based on MRO HiRISE imagery from orbit, with perhaps one or fewer 1 metre or above boulders per surface area of a Football Pitch, & the valley called Green Valley, was called Green Valley, due to the fact, Green meant safe.There is a large boulder at Azm 151.58 degrees, but is a few hundred metres away . <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/14/1ca710d1-27b8-4369-8ebc-60a195512ffd.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Close up of above boulder. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/3/f7c4d503-cfd5-4a7d-b372-eb341f32c453.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  I also agree about the comments section on the articles page being a troll filter. At least we do not have them on these threads. However it is still rude & disrespectful towards the authors of those articles. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

brandbll · Aug 31, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi brandbll, good quetion & post.It was decided from day 1 of landing site selection that the area would be as boulder free as is possible. Being a powered landing like the Vikings, rather than air bags like Mars Pathfinder & the MERs, a fairly smooth site was essential. Ground clearance was 45 CM IIRC.The Mars Polar Lander failure has never been explained 100%, the most popular theory being that the descent thrusters shut off some 40 metres above the surface as the radar changed modes from altitude to landing mode, the computer misread a switch, that flipped when the lander legs were opened some 11,000 metres above the surface, on the sensors stating that the craft landed when it fact the ground was still 40 metres below. However that is theory, not proven fact. There is the chance the descent was flawless, but MPL landed & tipped over on a large boulder. Until we find the wreckage, it is still supposition, but cannot be ruled out.Worth mentioning Viking 1 missed the Big Joe boulder by only 8 metres, which would have tipped Viking 1 over had she came down on top of it.Big Joe boulder, Viking 1. The Sweet Spot in Green Valley, Scandia Colles for Phoenix, was deemed safe enough based on MRO HiRISE imagery from orbit, with perhaps one or fewer 1 metre or above boulders per surface area of a Football Pitch, & the vallay called Green Valley was called Green Valley, due to the fact, Green meant safe.There is a large boulder at Azm 151.58 degrees, but is a few hundred metres away .  Close up of above boulder.  I also agree about the comments section on the articles page being a troll filter. At least we do not have them on these threads. However it is still rude & disrespectful towards the authors of those articles. Andrew Brown. Posted by 3488</DIV>Whoa yeah!  That's one big boulder, not something you'd want to land on!  I like the name they gave it though...Do these landers have the capability of detecting and attempting to avoid such a boulder(say radar for example) or are they coming too fast to make such an adjustment? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard! </div>

MeteorWayne · Aug 31, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Whoa yeah!  That's one big boulder, not something you'd want to land on!  I like the name they gave it though...Do these landers have the capability of detecting and attempting to avoid such a boulder(say radar for example) or are they coming too fast to make such an adjustment? Posted by brandbll</DIV> Phoenix did not have that ability. From what I understand, Mars Science Lab will be able to do that. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Aug 31, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Phoenix did not have that ability. From what I understand, Mars Science Lab will be able to do that. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Hi Wayne, yes that's correct, Phoenix was going to come down where, well where Phoenix was going to come down. This was why a smoothish site was necessary. If Phoenix did have that ability, then perhaps a more difficult site could have been chosen.I am not complaining though, Phoenix has landed in a beautiful & scientifically interesting location, in fact, I would be hard put to find anywhere better for a craft like Phoenix. Hills in the background, martian polygonal terrain all around, wide open skies, many small rocks, a few larger ones here & there, couldn't have done any better really. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/13/1ce35f3e-325f-450a-9de7-18ef5151694b.Medium.gif" alt="" /> Yes MSL can. AFAIK the 'SkyCrane' can maneuver horizontally controlled by the radar readings from the MSL itself. I would hate to be the engineers responsible for the prelaunch testing. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-surprised.gif" border="0" alt="Surprised" title="Surprised" /> That bridge will be crossed in about a couple of years time during MSL's EDL. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

brandbll · Aug 31, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi Wayne, yes that's correct, Phoenix was going to come down where, well where Phoenix was going to come down. This was why a smoothish site was necessary. If Phoenix did have that ability, then perhaps a more difficult site could have been chosen.I am not complaining though, Phoenix has landed in a beautiful & scientifically interesting location, in fact, I would be hard put to find anywhere better for a craft like Phoenix. Hills in the background, martian polygonal terrain all around, wide open skies, many small rocks, a few larger ones here & there, couldn't have done any better really. Yes MSL can. AFAIK the 'SkyCrane' can maneuver horizontally controlled by the radar readings from the MSL itself. I would hate to be the engineers responsible for the prelaunch testing. That bridge will be crossed in about a couple of years time during MSL's EDL. Andrew Brown.  Posted by 3488</DIV> The way i look at it, if you can take a lander like Phoenix and launch it from Earth and land it in good condition on another planet, any site is a good site!  Perhaps in later years to come, when/if this stuff becomes clockwork and we've done a successfuk hundred or so of these missions, THEN we can get picky about whether sites where they end up landing at are good or bad. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard! </div>

3488 · Aug 31, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The way i look at it, if you can take a lander like Phoenix and launch it from Earth and land it in good condition on another planet, any site is a good site!  Perhaps in later years to come, when/if this stuff becomes clockwork and we've done a successfuk hundred or so of these missions, THEN we can get picky about whether sites where they end up landing at are good or bad. Posted by brandbll</DIV>I hope that we get to have landers in as many different types of locations as possible, from the summit calderas of the giant shield volcanoes, particularly Olympus Mons to the depths of Coronae Scopulus in northern Hellas Basin (the lowest point on Mars), Valles Marineris, Arum Chaos, lava tubes on Pavonis Mons, Chasma Borealis, the actual permanent polar caps, etc.I hear it being rumoured, though as yet I have found nothing to substantiate that a Phoenix or Mars Pathfinder type craft may be sent to the ill fated Mars Polar Lander site in the South Polar region. I hope it's true. I would be happy for either type, both have been successful. Thank you to both Wayne & brandbll for engaging in such a fascinating conversation today.Just in,More clouds from Phoenix. This time these are well into the afternoon. Clouds at 14:11 LMST. Sol 95. Alt 63 deg, Azm 167 deg. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/2/12/529d6d93-99b5-435c-8c34-fd516bd35521.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Clouds at 14:16 LMST. Sol 95. Alt 37 deg, Azm 172 deg. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/8/1125222e-cbe0-4b73-a844-94032f18fa6d.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Clouds at 14:19 LMST. Sol 95.Alt 11 deg, Azm 171 deg. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/0/5/d0c05d7b-0738-44aa-a5bd-37e35ddd775f.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  There is most definitely a change in the weather. The mostly cloudless skies during the 90 Sol primary mission appear to be less common now. This is most fascinating, monitoring a change of season, at a high latitude from the surface of Mars, for the very first time. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

efron_24 · Aug 31, 2008

All of us have different reasons for looking at MarsDigging in dirt is funDriving to and into craters is funbut I love to see the Dust Devils and I love the cloud images and am so curious to what will happen with them !!How thick will they get and will they produce Snow.That would be a milestone and it will bring a tear of emotion on my face  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

baulten · Sep 1, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>All of us have different reasons for looking at MarsDigging in dirt is funDriving to and into craters is funbut I love to see the Dust Devils and I love the cloud images and am so curious to what will happen with them !!How thick will they get and will they produce Snow.That would be a milestone and it will bring a tear of emotion on my face  Posted by efron_24</DIV>They won't produce snow, because they atmosphere is so thin.  At least I think that the general consensus is that all of the ice (CO2 and H2O) will condence, not fall from the sky, due to low atmospheric pressure.

freya · Sep 1, 2008

I'll throw my hat in the ring by saying various ices will accrete around air borne dust and settle out of the atmosphere. This will be an almost invisible condensation, but once the conditions on the ground are cold enough, the change in the landscape will be very rapid. The Phoenix team had better get a wriggle on and start filling them ovens and cells.Gaz  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

baulten · Sep 1, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I'll throw my hat in the ring by saying various ices will accrete around air borne dust and settle out of the atmosphere. This will be an almost invisible condensation, but once the conditions on the ground are cold enough, the change in the landscape will be very rapid. The Phoenix team had better get a wriggle on and start filling them ovens and cells.Gaz  Posted by freya</DIV>Well, I guess it wouldn't be unreasonable to say you might see a little tiny bit of ice falling out of the sky... I don't know for sure, I'll let someone else who knows more answer this

3488 · Sep 1, 2008

Clouds from Sol 95 into an image animation.Also click on image below. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/6/1776e6b8-da6e-4e6b-a6ab-a35ca65b6341.Medium.gif" alt="" />  Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

Phoenix Mars Lander Extended Mission. Sol 90+ & R.I.P Sol 157.

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