Phoenix Mars Lander Extended Mission. Sol 90+ & R.I.P Sol 157.

3488 · Sep 5, 2008

Thanks Jon, regarding MER communications with Earth.Yes I was aware they used the oribters for relays, but also aware that they have direct to Earth capabilities. What I was not aware of was how much of each method they used. Thank you for clarifying that the Direct to Earth is only a backup procedure. Also yes, that;s one hell of a gamble for Phoenix, to completely remove that capability, seeing as both MO & ME are well into extended missions & that the MRO UHF radio has occassionally shut down (not much I know, but is still a warning shot).Imagine if MO packed up, ME went into safing & the UHF radio on MRO packed up at the same time. Very unlikely I know, but is still possible.  Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>It is probably possible, but if the clouds are fast moving the pictures would look bad.  Almost eveeything we an learn from cloud pictures can be learned from B&W images.Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>Very true, it would take several seconds for the RGB frames to rotate into position, during which time, the clouds would have moved, so yes the images would have been messy.The B & W ones reveal enough info.Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

efron_24 · Sep 5, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>It is probably possible, but if the clouds are fast moving the pictures would look bad.  Almost eveeything we an learn from cloud pictures can be learned from B&W images.Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>thanks.. for me that was not about learning.. but just enjoying the beauty of it.grin.Just saw on a Dutch site that it seems that the soil of Mars, despite of ice and water vapor is extremely dryPhoenix is going to test some more !http://www.astronieuws.nl/http://www.astronieuws.nl/and there is : http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-171   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Sep 5, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>thanks.. for me that was not about learning.. but just enjoying the beauty of it.grin.Just saw on a Dutch site that it seems that the soil of Mars, despite of ice and water vapor is extremely dryPhoenix is going to test some more !http://www.astronieuws.nl/and there is : http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-171   Posted by efron_24</DIV>Hi Chris, Indeed & not even hydrated as if that regolith has not been in contact with H2O ice. Major surprise. Ice is lying literally CM below the surface & we know that H20 frost forms on the surface prior to CO2 frost & post CO2 frost each Martian year. It seems as if the regolith immediately below the surace & aboce the ice rich layer is incredibly bone dry, as dry as moon regolith. Major finding indeed. Jon Clarke & Bob Clark, any ideas??????????Hi all, Guess what Phoenix has been upto in the early morning of Sol 99?All important frost monitoring duties again.http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=27042&cID=271Sol 99 Alt - 16.73 deg Azm 126.05 deg @ 05:35 HRS LMST. <a href="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Forums/#" title="Click to view a larger photo" onclick="return gSiteLife.LoadForumPage('ForumImage', 'plckPhotoId', '0844dc8f-a59d-4c34-839d-5422d5ce25d3', 'plckRedirectUrl', gSiteLife.EscapeValue(window.location.href));"><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/8/3/0844dc8f-a59d-4c34-839d-5422d5ce25d3.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></a> <a href="http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=27043&cID=271" target="_blank">Sol 99 Alt - 16.73 deg Azm 126.05 deg @ 07:07 HRS LMST.</a> <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/2/ee636cbf-b070-4773-9210-54eff08294ed.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

exoscientist · Sep 5, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi Chris, Indeed & not even hydrated as if that regolith has not been in contact with H2O ice. Major surprise. Ice is lying literally CM below the surface & we know that H20 frost forms on the surface prior to CO2 frost & post CO2 frost each Martian year. It seems as if the regolith immediately below the surace & aboce the ice rich layer is incredibly bone dry, as dry as moon regolith. Major finding indeed. Jon Clarke & Bob Clark, any ideas??????????Hi all, Guess what Phoenix has been upto in the early morning of Sol 99?All important frost monitoring duties again.Sol 99 Alt - 16.73 deg Azm 126.05 deg @ 05:35 HRS LMST.Sol 99 Alt - 16.73 deg Azm 126.05 deg @ 07:07 HRS LMST. Andrew Brown. Posted by 3488</DIV>   Perhaps they can take TECP measurements directly from the areas covered by frosts at the Phoenix site: http://www.universetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/frost-on-mars.jpg Also, in the report I didn't see any mention of their taking into account the daily timing of the TECP measurements. Ice deposition, even when not directly visible as with the frosts, takes place maximally in the evening hours and evaporates/sublimates off during the early morning. The measurements should be taken during the specific time of the day when modeling suggests there would still be sufficient water/ice on the surface yet the solar insolation should make a large proportion of it undergo a phase transition from ice to liquid and/or vapor. Bob Clark <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

JonClarke · Sep 6, 2008

Given the presence of ice in the soil and the low pressure, I would have expected the water vaour pressure in the soil to be near saturated.Maybe the ground is no colded that no sublimation takes place at all, unless it is exposed to the atmosphere?  Maybe the very cold surface is such an efficient cold trap that when tha atmosphere is saturated it forms frost on the surface and does not prentrate any deeper?When humidity drops the frost sumblimes back into the atmosphere and not into the soil  pores?I would think that this too suggests there is very little salt.  if there were lots of salts in the soil under the current temperatures there would be traces brines forming from these frosts, this moisture might then percolate downwards into the soil before evaporating.But these are questions for a soil physicist or micrometeorologist, not a hairly knucked geologist.At least the public comments on the SDC story are not as moronic those made on the 90-day announcement.Jon  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

MarkStanaway · Sep 6, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I believe the problem isn't the camera technology - it's the capacity of data transmission network back to Earth.  In other words, right now they could have superduper cameras on Phoenix, but there would be no efficient way to get the video.I know I've seen specific details floating around these forums.    Posted by phaze</DIV>This sounds like an issue that could be addressed by a Mars Sample Return (MSR) mission. Bringing back some hard copy video of IMAX quality would do wonders for garnering public support for Mars exploration. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

JonClarke · Sep 6, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>This sounds like an issue that could be addressed by a Mars Sample Return (MSR) mission. Bringing back some hard copy video of IMAX quality would do wonders for garnering public support for Mars exploration. Posted by MarkStanaway</DIV>The problem is mass.  Current MSR missions are looking at 500 grams of payload.  Rocks will be more important than movies.  A  pity in a way, but there it is.  Mind you, if you could pursuade a movie  mogol to part with their ill gotten gains you might be able to fund a rover mission whose sole aim would be to  return high definition TV.  It might be est to start with the Moon first, then go to Mars.Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Sep 6, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>  Perhaps they can take TECP measurements directly from the areas covered by frosts at the Phoenix site:http://www.universetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/frost-on-mars.jpg Also, in the report I didn't see any mention of their taking into account the daily timing of the TECP measurements. Ice deposition, even when not directly visible as with the frosts, takes place maximally in the evening hours and evaporates/sublimates off during the early morning. The measurements should be taken during the specific time of the day when modeling suggests there would still be sufficient water/ice on the surface yet the solar insolation should make a large proportion of it undergo a phase transition from ice to liquid and/or vapor. Bob Clark Posted by exoscientist</DIV>Hi really hope so Bob, that IS being done. Now that the season is changing for Phoenix, environmental readings like those are becoming more important, as are early morning, late afternoon ground imagery, tracking frost development, though that appears to be carried out as a matter of course & rightly so as is twilight, sunset & sunrise observations, for glows & high clouds. Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The problem is mass.  Current MSR missions are looking at 500 grams of payload.  Rocks will be more important than movies.  A  pity in a way, but there it is.  Mind you, if you could pursuade a movie  mogol to part with their ill gotten gains you might be able to fund a rover mission whose sole aim would be to  return high definition TV.  It might be est to start with the Moon first, then go to Mars.Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>I can see that Jon, ragrding MSR, but they should still put a decent imager on the lander like those carried by Mars Pathfinder, MERs & Phoenix. It's not that mass hungry, is it? A rover with a HDTV camera & with the proper filters, would still carry out fantastic science, even if no other payload was carried. The rover would still be capable of imagery of the landscape, ground morpholgy, rock layering, distribution of boulders, rocks, dunes, craters, etc & maybe also Mars based Astronomy during the night. So whilst the motive maybe to make a film for a movie company for public viewing, etc, that craft could still carried out much useful science. As you say, the Moon would be ideal for such a venture also. How about Mercury, Phobos, 433 Eros or 1 Ceres also? I suppose it's dependant on the time element & profit margins. I also agree with you regarding the idiot troll comments following on from the Sol 90 report. Absolutely appalling stuff & rude too, towards the author of that very informative article.Hi all, I have been distracted by the excellently executed Rosetta Asteroid 2867 Steins encounter today, but certainly have not forgotten Phoenix. No Way.Sol 101 Sun just beneath horizon at 01:23 HRS LMST. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/3/6b70f106-9a1c-47d2-83ff-76c56e361346.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Sol 101. Sun just coming up at 01:40 HRS LMST. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/8/ca956c19-6a41-4cfc-a84d-dbf6086ec6b5.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Frost in the morning of Sol 101. Sol 101. Alt -16.73 deg, Azm 126.05 deg at 03:13 HRS LMST <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/15/e7351f6a-7862-4b66-9fb3-13ec305e1c06.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

JonClarke · Sep 6, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I can see that Jon, ragrding MSR, but they should still put a decent imager on the lander like those carried by Mars Pathfinder, MERs & Phoenix. It's not that mass hungry, is it? A rover with a HDTV camera & with the proper filters, would still carry out fantastic science, even if no other payload was carried. The rover would still be capable of imagery of the landscape, ground morpholgy, rock layering, distribution of boulders, rocks, dunes, craters, etc & maybe also Mars based Astronomy during the night. So whilst the motive maybe to make a film for a movie company for public viewing, etc, that craft could still carried out much useful science. As you say, the Moon would be ideal for such a venture also. How about Mercury, Phobos, 433 Eros or 1 Ceres also? I suppose it's dependant on the time element & profit margins.   Posted by 3488</DIV>Hi AndrewIt is not that HDTV would not be great, but that from a science perspective it wuld not tell us any more than we can get from much simpler systems.  A HDTV system would chew up lots of things - power, mass, memory, transmission band widfth.  If used on a rover (the only time I think it would be used) it would need to be on a stablised mount - more power and mass.  On a small rover (if you could do it at all) you probably could not to anything else.  So no analytical capacity, no ability to interact with the surface beyond the wheels.  Not really worth it.  Perhaps possible on a very large rover - several tonnes.  Jon    <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

efron_24 · Sep 7, 2008

Is there a kind of soil that does not "keep" water.. I know that is not correct English.. but I mean  is there a kind of soil that pushes water molecules awaylike to + + or - - magnets push eachother awaySo water that was ice and becomes gas can't cling to the soil as it is not able to hold on. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Sep 7, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi AndrewIt is not that HDTV would not be great, but that from a science perspective it wuld not tell us any more than we can get from much simpler systems.  A HDTV system would chew up lots of things - power, mass, memory, transmission band widfth.  If used on a rover (the only time I think it would be used) it would need to be on a stablised mount - more power and mass.  On a small rover (if you could do it at all) you probably could not to anything else.  So no analytical capacity, no ability to interact with the surface beyond the wheels.  Not really worth it.  Perhaps possible on a very large rover - several tonnes.  Jon   Posted by jonclarke</DIV>Cheers Jon,I did think that a HDTV camera may be too heavy.Yes I agree about that being at the expense of other instumentation on a science rover like the MERs. As a film maker, yes that's fine, I shall certainly see the film & purchase the DVD.  As you say, other systems are available like the Imager for Mars Pathfinder, the MER PanCams & the Phoenix Stereo Surface Imager, all more than capable of high definition imagery & all have delivered big time, so yes A HDTV system is unnecessary.I was saying a HDTV only Rover for a movie maker, could still be used by us to carry out some science, i.e it would still be able to provide info on ground morphology, rock mapping, rock types in multispectral images, monitoring changing weather & perhaps even Astronomy at night. So it would not be useless, though of course as you say, there would be no physical interaction with the surface, other than the wheels.Hi all,A couple of extra Sol 101 bits.Crop of Sun just below horizon at 01:23 HRS on Sol 101. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/9/7d6d921a-eeb1-4c09-a94d-d0c917809d16.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Clouds on Sol 101 at 17:02 HRS LMST. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/15/4cac8155-dd34-43bc-9fe0-67de108b13b0.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

baulten · Sep 7, 2008

I don't know why, but seeing clouds from another world is just... Amazing.  It strikes home I guess.  Makes you feel like Mars really isn't quite so alien after all.

3488 · Sep 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I don't know why, but seeing clouds from another world is just... Amazing.  It strikes home I guess.  Makes you feel like Mars really isn't quite so alien after all. Posted by baulten</DIV>That's quite true. Worth bearing in mind, those clouds will be against an orange sky & an atmosphere fairly close to what we would consider to be a vacuum. Looks like frost has appeared on Sol 102. Sol 102 Alt -16.73 deg Azm 126.05 deg at 09:47 HRS LMST.  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/2/4/225e7683-f40c-47ce-a44c-05093c47dac8.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

efron_24 · Sep 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>That's quite true. Worth bearing in mind, those clouds will be against an orange sky & an atmosphere fairly close to what we would consider to be a vacuum. Looks like frost has appeared on Sol 102. Sol 102 Alt -16.73 deg Azm 126.05 deg at 09:47 HRS LMST.  Andrew Brown.  Posted by 3488</DIV>The "close to vacuum" makes it hard to believe it is even possible to have clouds. It again strengthens my believe that in the days when the Moon was cooling down.. there must have been water vapor clouds over our moon.. perhaps dissolving into the nothing rappidly.. but there must have been some clouds of steam there. Perhaps more like the vague material at Enceladus .. but still.. and It is fantastic to think of that <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

tampaDreamer · Sep 8, 2008

The clouds really got me as well.  I second the motion for higher transmission capacity from mars' satellites.  What is the restricting factor there, power?  Slap a couple of corn plants on there and generate some ethanol (yuk, yuk, yuk). Looking at the clouds really hits home.  You almost expect to see a shadow move by and then a person come into view, or maybe a plane overhead.  I wish we had a couple of minutes of color video of the clouds.  I know NASA is all about the science, but they need to try to pack in some of this PR work into each mission, I don't think they realize the potential impact on the public.  Not sure I ever realized we would see clouds there, and I'm an avid follower of space news. Thanks for all the analysis, guys (gals?).  You are all talking about looking for frost in the photos, can someone circle where you see it or explain what to look for? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

efron_24 · Sep 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The clouds really got me as well.  I second the motion for higher transmission capacity from mars' satellites.  What is the restricting factor there, power?  Slap a couple of corn plants on there and generate some ethanol (yuk, yuk, yuk). Looking at the clouds really hits home.  You almost expect to see a shadow move by and then a person come into view, or maybe a plane overhead.  I wish we had a couple of minutes of color video of the clouds.  I know NASA is all about the science, but they need to try to pack in some of this PR work into each mission, I don't think they realize the potential impact on the public.  Not sure I ever realized we would see clouds there, and I'm an avid follower of space news. Thanks for all the analysis, guys (gals?).  You are all talking about looking for frost in the photos, can someone circle where you see it or explain what to look for? Posted by tampaDreamer</DIV> True.. Nasa forgets the PR and is surprised to see it's budget cut. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Sep 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The clouds really got me as well.  I second the motion for higher transmission capacity from mars' satellites.  What is the restricting factor there, power?  Slap a couple of corn plants on there and generate some ethanol (yuk, yuk, yuk). Looking at the clouds really hits home.  You almost expect to see a shadow move by and then a person come into view, or maybe a plane overhead.  I wish we had a couple of minutes of color video of the clouds.  I know NASA is all about the science, but they need to try to pack in some of this PR work into each mission, I don't think they realize the potential impact on the public.  Not sure I ever realized we would see clouds there, and I'm an avid follower of space news. Thanks for all the analysis, guys (gals?).  You are all talking about looking for frost in the photos, can someone circle where you see it or explain what to look for? Posted by tampaDreamer</DIV>Hi tampaDreamer. I think Jon Clarke explained as to why it is difficult to get colour video of the clouds. In order to do that, the sky needs to be imaged through Red, Green & Blue filters for EACH colour image. Then do that for maybe, lets say 100 frames. So for 100 frames say, there will need to be 300 images taken. How much will the clouds move between the time for the red filter image to be taken, then the green filter to rotate into place, then take (15 seconds), then for the blue filter to rotatate into place then take (another 15 seconds). During the first colour frame alone (30 seconds), the clouds will have moved. It would look very messy & poor, the second frame likewise, another 15 seconds for the red filter to rotate back into place & take, then so on.A dawn scene would be OK, as the Sun would rise slowly enough for this to not be a real issue & the twilight would not change sufficiently in such a short time to be a problem. Hi All, Sol 97 Holy Cow article. Holy Cow @ 03:55 HRS LMST Sol 97. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/12/a5cac3d8-3ee6-44ad-bc0c-a42c34feaa3a.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Holy Cow @ 02:09 HRS LMST Sol 97. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/5/2b482021-1665-4b06-a528-9380c14d86b3.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Holy Cow @ 22:30 HRS LMST Sol 96. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/5/cb5180ba-3166-443c-85de-63d33b36a086.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Holy Cow @ 18:31 HRS LMST Sol 96. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/7/559c31ad-d140-48af-972a-38a52240364f.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Holy Cow @ 16:20 HRS LMST Sol 96. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/9/12/497f9c90-768a-4302-ac8e-a02d18538225.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

tampaDreamer · Sep 9, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi tampaDreamer. I think Jon Clarke explained as to why it is difficult to get colour video of the clouds. In order to do that, the sky needs to be imaged through Red, Green & Blue filters for EACH colour image. Then do that for maybe, lets say 100 frames. So for 100 frames say, there will need to be 300 images taken. How much will the clouds move between the time for the red filter image to be taken, then the green filter to rotate into place, then take (15 seconds), then for the blue filter to rotatate into place then take (another 15 seconds). During the first colour frame alone (30 seconds), the clouds will have moved. It would look very messy & poor, the second frame likewise, another 15 seconds for the red filter to rotate back into place & take, then so on.A dawn scene would be OK, as the Sun would rise slowly enough for this to not be a real issue & the twilight would not change sufficiently in such a short time to be a problem. Hi All, Sol 97 Holy Cow article.Holy Cow @ 03:55 HRS LMST Sol 97. Holy Cow @ 02:09 HRS LMST Sol 97. Holy Cow @ 22:30 HRS LMST Sol 96. Holy Cow @ 18:31 HRS LMST Sol 96. Holy Cow @ 16:20 HRS LMST Sol 96.  Andrew Brown.  Posted by 3488</DIV>My girlfriend can take color video on her cell phone's camera.  She can also drop the camera on cement repeatedly and it still works.  Is there any reason we can't add another 3 ounces to the lander to take some cellphone quality color videos?  I still don't see any obstacles besides bandwidth. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Sep 9, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>My girlfriend can take color video on her cell phone's camera.  She can also drop the camera on cement repeatedly and it still works.  Is there any reason we can't add another 3 ounces to the lander to take some cellphone quality color videos?  I still don't see any obstacles besides bandwidth. Posted by tampaDreamer</DIV> And those are the points. Weight and bandwidth. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

JonClarke · Sep 9, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>My girlfriend can take color video on her cell phone's camera.  She can also drop the camera on cement repeatedly and it still works.  Is there any reason we can't add another 3 ounces to the lander to take some cellphone quality color videos?  I still don't see any obstacles besides bandwidth. Posted by tampaDreamer</DIV>Your girlfriend's camera does not have to operate for years in a dusty near vacuum, while exposed  to high radiation and daily temperature swings of between 50 and 70 degrees.  It has not have the ability to operate in wavelengths beyond human vision. It does not have to be assembled and cleaned to punishing planetary protection standards.  if it fails it can be easily replaced from a shop.Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

efron_24 · Sep 9, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Your girlfriend's camera does not have to operate for years in a dusty near vacuum, while exposed  to high radiation and daily temperature swings of between 50 and 70 degrees.  It has not have the ability to operate in wavelengths beyond human vision. It does not have to be assembled and cleaned to punishing planetary protection standards.  if it fails it can be easily replaced from a shop.Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>Well.. last on this topic, as there is more to see and learn there : They can make 19th century black and white photo's have color nowso why would they not be able in the 21th century to change Mars Black and White images into color so we can get an impression of how it is..   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

nimbus · Sep 9, 2008

Just my semi-educated guess, but I think it's the substrate (paper+chemicals) those old pictures were taken on that allows us to eke out the colors.  Whereas a cam like those on space probes are digital right from the sensor plate.  There's nothing but monochrome data. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

a_lost_packet_ · Sep 9, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Well.. last on this topic, as there is more to see and learn there : They can make 19th century black and white photo's have color nowso why would they not be able in the 21th century to change Mars Black and White images into color so we can get an impression of how it is..  Posted by efron_24</DIV>They already do that.  In fact, there are gazillions of examples of that technique all over the internet. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I put on my robe and wizard hat... </div>

paulscottanderson · Sep 10, 2008

There is an update regarding the "clumps" on the lander leg:http://uanews.org/node/21442Also here:http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=29789&cID=278 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> -----------------The Meridiani Journal a chronicle of planetary exploration web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

nimbus · Sep 10, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>They already do that.  In fact, there are gazillions of examples of that technique all over the internet. Posted by a_lost_packet_</DIV> And those are composites of monochrome pictures at different wavelengths.. If you take just one picture at one wavelength, it still won't be possible to color it, other than by guessing. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

Phoenix Mars Lander Extended Mission. Sol 90+ & R.I.P Sol 157.

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