Phoenix Mars Lander Extended Mission. Sol 90+ & R.I.P Sol 157.

3488 · Oct 29, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>OK, would anyone be willing to summarise in 10-20 lines in layman's terms exactly what has been learned/achieved by Phoenix to date ?  Many thanks indeed. Posted by halcyondays</DIV>Hi halcyondays,Good to see that you have come out of lurker mode.I have virtually copied over an old post with additions which I think will go a long way to answering your question."Phoenix discovers & confirms Calcium Carbonates. The PH (8.3) of the regolith is very similar, actually almost a doppleganger of the PH of Earth's Oceans. To prevent acidification (mostly from volcanic sources) a buffering action takes place. With Earth a big part of it is the alkaline left behind by dead sea creatures. On Mars the alkaline rich clays takes the role of the buffering, through non biological processes. Calcium Carbonates require long periods (biological or non biological, sounds like a damn washing powder) of liquid water to form & they prevent acidification. On Mars it was assumed that this could never happen (imagine the Sulphuric acid belched out when Olympus Mons, the other Tharsis volcanoes, Elysium volcanoes etc where active), Phoenix has clearly shown that it can & it does indeed happen.Calcium Carbonates are a huge revelation in martian studies & overturns quite a few preconceived ideas. Some of this was hinted at with Mars Pathfinder & the MERs, but Phoenix has really turned the tables on this.Further Phoenix results, confirms precipitation using LIDAR, VIRGA (precipitation that evaporates before reaching the surface, can be snow, sleet or rain, but in this case, snow) is seen falling from an altitude of 4,600 metres / 15,100 feet, sublimating at 2,500 metres / 8,200 feet. High ice content of subsurface regolith confirmed. Further evidence of varying Martian obliquity (axial tilt) has been uncovered by Phoenix. Visual detection of clouds & dust devils for the first time from ground level at high latitude. First ever Martian Midnight Sun observations (significant first IMO). Whilst aesthetically spectacular, the science behind such observations include sky glows, high clouds, atmospheric dust levels as well as useful in fine tuning our knowledge on the movements of Mars.Monitoring change of Martian seasons for the first time ever from ground level in the high latitudes. First Martian polar dust storm observed from ground level.  Once the MECA, TEGA, Imaging & Weather analysis is complete, I'm sure there are going to be some further revelations". Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Oct 29, 2008

Replying to:<div class="Discussion_PostQuote">I must admit that i have a little tear in the eyes the robot arm has now stopped workingthe mission is coming to an end and it is asif we say farewell to a great friend Posted by efron_24</div>Hi Chris,We ain't done just yet. True, power consumption is being curtailed, bit by bit, but remember, these measures will enable Phoenix to survive quite a bit longer, than would otherwise have been possible.The loss of the arm in many ways now is no big loss, the arm has successfully carried out it's mission to dig trenches, investigate regolith mechanics, using its own small camera to image beneath Phoenix, image trenches close up & deliver samples to both TEGA & MECA. It's job is done & is now surplus to requirements.The Cameras & Weather station are still fully operational, in fact these are by far the most important instruments for monitoring for the first time ever, the change of seasons from ground level in the Martian Arctic.True Phoenix is in the end game now for sure, in fact the end game started when the first early morning frosts appeared, that's a lot of sols ago now.Think of it like this. We know the mission is winding down, but also this is the next phase of the mission. I think that we are going to learn a huge amount still from Phoenix, before she shuts down for good, or maybe not, who knows? Replying to:<div class="Discussion_PostQuote"> I assume there isn't even a possibility of Phoenix being able to restart after winter due to the impact of extreme cold on the batteries and such?  Posted by tanstaafl76</div>Hi tanstaafl76.I think mee_n_mac is correct, chances are very remote indeed. Phoenix almost certainly will be encased in CO2 ice for at least nine months, the batteries I would imagine will be dead, whether or not they'll be rechargeable again, is open to considerable doubt, soldering will shrink & possibly crack, circuitry will glastinate (be like glass), rock hard but extremely brittle, conductive pathways damaged, solar arrays may snap off, phoenis herself my  buckle if the ice moves or if deposited from above (CO2 ice is heavy even under Mars's 38% gravity).A hell of a lot can go wrong during the Winter & early Spring.A LAZARUS program has been uploaded, should the arrays generate power & Phoenix is in good enough shape to respond & I'm also sure that ground controllers will send commands from Earth in the Spring (Martian northern Spring that is). MRO HiRISE will also image the Phoenix site as & when possible, post loss of communication (I was one of those who put in such a request, since then one of the big guns has also asked for them, so I think they will happen), so we'll see with the MRO HiRISE, when Phoenix is buried in ice & likewise re-emerges from said ice, & the HiRISE has enough resolving power to see if the arrays are still attached to Phoenix & / or if Phoenix has moved, whilst encased. Replying to:<div class="Discussion_PostQuote">Vanishingly small is what I'd say.  They'll listen for an "I'm alive" signal come springtime but nobody expects to hear one.  Too bad there wasn't a way to include just 1 small RTG.  Would have been neat to see (camera and metrology station) the winter close in on the lander.  Oh well ............ Posted by mee_n_mac</div>I agree mee_n_mac, for the reasons stated above. I would like to see an RTG powered polar lander, designed to survive the entire Martian Year in the polar region. I'm sure it will happen one day. The information from Phoenix will be very valuable indeed for planning such a mission. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

JonClarke · Oct 30, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>OK, would anyone be willing to summarise in 10-20 lines in layman's terms exactly what has been learned/achieved by Phoenix to date ?  Many thanks indeed. Posted by halcyondays</DIV>To add to Andrew's excellent post:The discovery of segegated ice, the most likely explanation is past liquid water.The discovery of perchlorates, which is a potential oxidant for organics, and indicator of more stronger oxidants that may eplain the Viking soil behaviour, and a potential energy source for bugs.The non discovery of organics, nitrates, and sulphates.The possible discovery of brine films to explain the stickyness (disputed)Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Oct 30, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>To add to Andrew's excellent post:The discovery of segegated ice, the most likely explanation is past liquid water.The discovery of perchlorates, which is a potential oxidant for organics, and indicator of more stronger oxidants that may eplain the Viking soil behaviour, and a potential energy source for bugs.The non discovery of organics, nitrates, and sulphates.The possible discovery of brine films to explain the stickyness (disputed)Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>Thank you very much Jon for your compliment & from a Mars expert too. I am learning more all the while & hopefully I will really be able to engage with you properly soon. Of course I did not think of everything or have expected too either, but looks as though I got most of the main points.Hi everyone,Phoenix went into safing on Sol 152 & will not be operating until the weekend. Deteriorating weather caused Phoenix to go into safing & switch to the backup B Channel for communications. Looks like the primary A Channel has ceased permanently, but the B Channel is operating well.Apparently daytime temperatures are now not rising above -45 C / -49 F & night temperatures are now averaging -96 C / -141 F. Hopefully the CSA weather widgets & reports will be updated soon.Once Phoenix has fully recharged the batteries, approx two sols, there appears to be no real reason as to why Phoenix cannot complete the full extended mission. Lets hope the B Channel does not fail. If it does, the mission's over for sure. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Oct 30, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> I would like to see an RTG powered polar lander, designed to survive the entire Martian Year in the polar region. I'm sure it will happen one day. The information from Phoenix will be very valuable indeed for planning such a mission. Andrew Brown. Posted by 3488</DIV> That one reason MSL has one. It could possibly survive several years. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

JonClarke · Oct 30, 2008

I see the SDC story about Phoenix entering safe mode as power decreases has brought the ignorant and stupid out of the wood work again.I just don't get it.  Phoenix is a very innovative mission that makes clever use of surplus hardware to study a part of Mars we had never been to before.  It has made a stack of paradigm shaking discoveries.  But just because it hasn't got wheels and isn't designed to survive winter all these people think its garbage.  Worse, they think the people who run it are rubbish.The take home lesson is that space mission should not be run based on the opinion of the  great unwashed but on real goals, meeting real needs.Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

MeteorWayne · Oct 30, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I see the SDC story about Phoenix entering safe mode as power decreases has brought the ignorant and stupid out of the wood work again.I just don't get it.  Phoenix is a very innovative mission that makes clever use of surplus hardware to study a part of Mars we had never been to before.  It has made a stack of paradigm shaking discoveries.  But just because it hasn't got wheels and isn't designed to survive winter all these people think its garbage.  Worse, they think the people who run it are rubbish.The take home lesson is that space mission should not be run based on the opinion of the  great unwashed but on real goals, meeting real needs.Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV> Are you talking about the comments on the story? If so, you deserve what you got. Such ignorance and trolling would never be permitted here in the forums. It's really astounding what gets posted. It sure does attract the less aware element, doesn't it? I haven't looked yet. Perhaps I'll do it later after the STS-125 and TS 126 news conferences whan I have absorbed enough hydrocarbon insulation

We here know what a great accomplishment the mission has been, and will continue to be for most likely another decade as the superb data is analyzed.Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Oct 30, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>That one reason MSL has one. It could possibly survive several years. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Hi Wayne,I hope MSL does last for years & cover a great many of KM. Mind you Phoenix has done really very well considering the location & conditions. We will learn a great deal from an engineering point of view from Phoenix & the MERs, for very long duration missions on Mars, in quite frankly the most difficult conditions.I have high hopes for MSL assuming a successful launch & successful EDL. She lands safely & like ALL successful Mars landers to date, she'll knock our socks off regarding survivability as well as quantity & quality of data returned. Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I see the SDC story about Phoenix entering safe mode as power decreases has brought the ignorant and stupid out of the wood work again.I just don't get it.  Phoenix is a very innovative mission that makes clever use of surplus hardware to study a part of Mars we had never been to before.  It has made a stack of paradigm shaking discoveries.  But just because it hasn't got wheels and isn't designed to survive winter all these people think its garbage.  Worse, they think the people who run it are rubbish.The take home lesson is that space mission should not be run based on the opinion of the  great unwashed but on real goals, meeting real needs.Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>Hi Jon,Believe you me, you are not alone at being peeved & fed up with the comments following on from that well written article. I too am sick to my back teeth with those comments Jon. Also have you checked the comments on the actual NASA Phoenix site? I gave up posting stuff on there, just got fed up with the troll & uneducated responses. Those people who make those troll comments for goodness sake have logins to a space community website & should know a lot better.Phoenix as we all know has carried out the mission very successfully with very few problems, none of which were unsolvable & despite the current problem, which is almost solved, I think Phoenix will bounce back & surprise us with how long she will continue producing results that will further enrich our knowledge of the Fourth Rock from the Sun.The only regret with Phoenix I have is that NASA sent only one!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/8/11/d89afc9f-9c7a-4e09-9bab-4fbd55ee27de.Medium.gif" alt="" /> Phoenix is a great mission & will join the ranks of the greats. I've thoroughly enjoyed the mission & continue to do so. Well worth the campaign to get Phoenix to Mars & not remain in the cancelled bin.Perhaps Wayne & yourself should knock some sense into them. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/15/fad8ac0c-2816-47fc-affe-ee4a3bb6bbef.Medium.gif" alt="" />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Oct 30, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Are you talking about the comments on the story? If so, you deserve what you got. Such ignorance and trolling would never be permitted here in the forums. It's really astounding what gets posted. It sure does attract the less aware element, doesn't it? I haven't looked yet. Perhaps I'll do it later after the STS-125 and TS 126 news conferences whan I have absorbed enough hydrocarbon insulation

We here know what a great accomplishment the mission has been, and will continue to be for most likely another decade as the superb data is analyzed.Wayne Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Too damn right Wayne.Those comments are trolling, pure & simple. I'm glad that they do not post their crap comments on here. If they did, I would delete their posts & ask permission from dh to permaban them.it's a disgrace Wayne, it really is & I think you will be very cross at their troll comments. I know that I am.Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

JonClarke · Oct 30, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Jon. Also have you checked the comments on the actual NASA Phoenix site? I gave up posting stuff on there, just got fed up with the troll & uneducated responses.Those people who make those troll comments for goodness sake have logins to a space community website & should know a lot better.Phoenix as we all know has carried out the mission very successfully with very few problems, none of which were unsolvable & despite the current problem, which is almost solved, I think Phoenix will bounce back & surprise us with how long she will continue producing results that will further enrich out knowledge of the Fourth Rock from the Sun.The only regret with Phoenix I have is that NASA sent only one!!!!!!!!!!! Phoenix is a great mission & will join the ranks of the greats. I've thoroughly enjoyed the mission & continue to do so. Well worth the campaign to get Phoenix to Mars & not remain in the cancelled bin.Perhaps Wayne & yourself should knock some sense into them. Andrew Brown. Posted by 3488</DIV>I just don't get it.  I have not seen such hostility to an unmanned mission before, except perhaps Huygens and Beagle 2, which were European missions and I attributed that to anti Europe and anti ESA prejudice from ignorant, stupid, and bigoted Americans.  And the Phoenix site was even hacked!Why?  Is it just because it doesn't move and has a short mission life?  Or are there other issues at play?Don't worry, I have them a few good serves in the comments to the SDC story!<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

MeteorWayne · Oct 30, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I just don't get it.  I have not seen such hostility to an unmanned mission before, except perhaps Huygens and Beagle 2, which were European missions and I attributed that to anti Europe and anti ESA prejudice from ignorant, stupid, and bigoted Americans.  And the Phoenix site was even hacked!Why?  Is it just because it doesn't move and has a short mission life?  Or are there other issues at play?Don't worry, I have them a few good serves in the comments to the SDC story!Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV> Like I said, I'll get there later after the NASA news conferences!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Oct 30, 2008

Hi Jon & Wayne,Seen your comments on the article section & I too have thrown my hat in the ring in support of both of you & of the Phoenix mission.I just do not get it either. Such blatant & ill informed hostility. It's an absolute disgrace & I think the three of us have risen the tone somewhat. Anyway,The U of A site have posted some more Sol 150 images that where not there only a few hours ago, when I checked last.This time an image of the frost monitoring area was imaged ay 20:40 HRS LMST.Alt -16.73 deg, Azm 126.05 deg 20:40 LMST Sol 150.Already just prior to sunset (the sun is now setting for nearly 7.0 hrs per sol), frost is well established. These visual clues are enough evidence for rapidly falling temperatures. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/9/91abe23f-3fa5-49c1-89da-29f057bd1392.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

earth_bound_misfit · Oct 30, 2008

To me, those images of frost forming alone have made this mission worthwhile. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ----------------------------------------------------------------- Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?Go here to see how: SDC Eye saver </div>

anthmartian · Oct 30, 2008

It is a great shame that these type of comments have been made. Its true, it does show a huge amount of ignorance. If it is because Phoenix is wheel less, then i find it ridiculous, it was fairly well understood terrain that phoenix landed in, it had a series of tasks to perform, and it was pretty certain that wherever it came down it would be able to achieve its goals. Which it did. What did they expect the lander to do come winter? High tail it to the equator!?Trolling about a short life span? Well it just shows a complete lack of understanding about the conditions and environment which Phoenix is operating in. It is a huge shame Phoenix is not responding to hails from the orbiter. I hope it is a case of it going in to a start up, shut down mode to conserve what little power it has. Fingers crossed they can catch it during a wake up cycle. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"Han Solo - 1977 - A long time ago in a galaxy far far away.... Click Here And jump over to my site. </div>

fsm · Oct 31, 2008

With regards to the use of solar power on Phoenix (taken from my post in another thread)..Nuclear RTG batteries woud have added a LOT of cost to the mission (ie: $x00 million) - this was a "cheap" mission with a $400 million total budget. Furthermore, RTG power output does degrade over a period of years - and it is looking like the Solar powered Rovers (5 years so far) will be end up being more long-lived than the static RTG powered Viking landers were.. There is actually a serious shortage of the isotope of Plutonium (238) used for these - it is not the same isotope used in commercial reactors, and there are only a few places in the world where it is made. The US had to buy some from Russia for the New Horizons Pluto mission, and using it for the MSL could mean a shortage for a future Outer Planet mission. The real costs are probably higher, because the reactors used to make Pu238 have Government operational costs hidden in the running costs of places like Los Alamos. Nuclear has *never* had to pay for its huge original gov-funded research costs in the same way Solar and other alternative power sources have.. Anyway, there a some missions for which a nuclear source of some sort is essential - but remember, it is not a cheap alternative. BTW I would like to have seen more smaller solar powered rovers go up before the (very expensive) MSL - the incremental cost of a third rover on much the same frame as the first two MERs might have been $200 million - as opposed to the $1.3-2 billion the MSL will cost - and if the very risky new landing method fails, we could end up with no operational Mars missions.Back to Phoenix - great mission, shame it may be over. Did I understand it right that during the Safe-mode shutdown ALL 4 heaters were off overnight? That could be bad news for the electronics on board. It would be shame if those last samples that are lined up in the ovens dont get analysed.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

JonClarke · Oct 31, 2008

Quite a few of the coments on the story seem to think that Phoenix has fallen short of its goals.  So here is a reminder of what those goals were.Full mission success was defined in 2007 (http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00001567/) as:  1. Land successfully on the surface of Mars and achieve a power safe state.2. Acquire a true color (RGB), 360° panorama of the landing site.3. Obtain calibrated optical spectra of at least 3 locations that include both rocks and soil.4. Provide temperature and pressure measurements throughout landed surface operations at a frequencythat determines key atmospheric properties.5. Provide samples of the surface soil, and samples from two depths beneath the surface, to both TEGA and MECA.6. Use TEGA to analyze at least 3 soil samples to create a profile of H2O (in the form of hydrated minerals, adsorbed water, or possibly ice at the deepest level) and mineral abundances near the surface. It shall also analyze an atmospheric sample in its mass spectrometer.7. Use MECA to analyze the wet chemistry of at least 3 soil samples. It shall also analyze 3 additional samples in its microscopy station. 8. Document all 9 non-atmospheric samples and their collection locations (before and after sampling) with images.Phoenix has well and truly exceeded its goals as well has lasting at least 60 days past its design life.Jon    <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

JonClarke · Oct 31, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>BTW I would like to have seen more smaller solar powered rovers go up before the (very expensive) MSL - the incremental cost of a third rover on much the same frame as the first two MERs might have been $200 million - as opposed to the $1.3-2 billion the MSL will cost - and if the very risky new landing method fails, we could end up with no operational Mars missions.Back to Phoenix - great mission, shame it may be over. Did I understand it right that during the Safe-mode shutdown ALL 4 heaters were off overnight? That could be bad news for the electronics on board. It would be shame if those last samples that are lined up in the ovens dont get analysed.  Posted by fsm</DIV>Yep, a few more MERs would have been nice,perhaps with payloads modified in light of experience.  Two MSLs would be good too. And another Phoenix at the south pole, plus a network of meteorological and geophysical staations.  But sadly only in our dreams. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-cry.gif" border="0" alt="Cry" title="Cry" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

fsm · Oct 31, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Yep, a few more MERs would have been nice,perhaps with payloads modified in light of experience.  Two MSLs would be good too. And another Phoenix at the south pole, plus a network of meteorological and geophysical staations.  But sadly only in our dreams. Posted by jonclarke</DIV>Perhaps we can persuade the MER team to clean up and upgrade the operational "spare", and send it off on top of a Delta (or Falcon-9) in 2011. I think ESA did this with Venus Express,which was the spare test craft for Mars Express - if I recall right, it cost around $200 million.. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Oct 31, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Quite a few of the coments on the story seem to think that Phoenix has fallen short of its goals.  So here is a reminder of what those goals were.Full mission success was de.....................Jon    Posted by jonclarke</DIV>I agree Jon, we all know that Phoenix has not only met the maximum success criteria, but has exceeded it by an enormous margin. Unfortunately, many (not all certainly) of those posters on the comments section following the article, appear to have the impeccable ability to not bother finding out the facts, troll & post utter drivel.It makes me cross, but I think Wayne & yourself gave them a large, quality dose of reality regarding the huge success of the Phoenix mission.Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Perhaps we can persuade the MER team to clean up and upgrade the operational "spare", and send it off on top of a Delta (or Falcon-9) in 2011. I think ESA did this with Venus Express,which was the spare test craft for Mars Express - if I recall right, it cost around $200 million.. Posted by fsm</DIV>It would be great to recondition the test bed spare MER C Destiny to be launched on a Delta 2 & given a proper mission. IIRC it was considered too expensive & the test bed MER C has really been put through its paces on Earth. I still say, recondition her & give her a mission. May not last as long as Spirit & Opportunity, but Destiny could still IMO carry out an interesting & scientifically valuable mission.Don't think its gonna happen though. Shame.Great News concerning Phoenix.Phoenix has reawoken from a 19 hour recharge session (Dunno where the author got 19 hours from, as the Sun is setting for nearly 7 hours, unless it was spread out over two sessions, I suppose). Apparently the onboard Lazarus software kicked in.Looks like Phoenix will indeed be resuming the extended mission after all. Wonder what the trelemetry report said? I really hope the SSI & Met Station are still working. After all, they are the most important instruments for the monitoring of the change of season, in Scandia Colles.Sol 151 weather widget has just appeared. Night temp, not quite as low as initial reports suggested, though we have not seen Sols 147, 148, 149 & 150. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/13/4d837f2b-edc3-4ee6-9d1d-d5fc7f3bb025.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

nimbus · Oct 31, 2008

Is that the Lazarus software they uploaded just recently? What a bit of good luck, if it is

victo · Oct 31, 2008

Sorry if that was discussed before but I couldn't find any explanation, what is "pyrotechnic initiation unit" for and why they kept it alive until this time? It sound to me as a self distruction device.

vIC

JonClarke · Oct 31, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Perhaps we can persuade the MER team to clean up and upgrade the operational "spare", and send it off on top of a Delta (or Falcon-9) in 2011. I think ESA did this with Venus Express,which was the spare test craft for Mars Express - if I recall right, it cost around $200 million.. Posted by fsm</DIV>I asked Steve Squyres this very question back in 2005 when he was in town.  The back up MER isn't collecting dust here on Earth.  The compents are in constant use to test mobility and instrumentation issues.  They will only become available when the MER missions finally finish.  By which time they will be worn out.Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

JonClarke · Oct 31, 2008

It's off topic, I know, but I wonder how the people who winge about Phoenix will react to MSL?On one hand its has aa very high coolnes factor.  Two billion dollar mission, largest Mars lander ever, largest Mars rover ever, first nuclear powered rover, first nuclear lander since Viking, largest rover anywhere since 1972, most sophisticated lab ever,  laser beam, neutron beam,  movies, Skycrane landing system, etc. etc.On the other hand the expectations are very high.  because it is nuclear some people seem to think it has almost no limiations, that it can travel fast and far, has no restrictions as to weather or latitude, nd can work 24 hours a day.  the reality is quite different.  It is very limited as to where it can land with respect to altitude and latitude, can't work 24 hours a day andd, if it ends up at the southern sites, will have to shut down over winter to conserve heat.  Although it may well be faster than the MERs, the highly complex lab means that it will spent most of its time sitting still.  So to may not offer much improvement in coverage over the 10 or so metres a day that the MERs did early on. So there is huge potential for disillusioment.  Especially if some of the insanely complex equipment does  not work as advertised, or gets jammed by grit or a pebble.  We could se a lot of whining about NASA incompetence or why MSL was choen over repeat MERs.Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Nov 1, 2008

Hi Jon,It's not really off topic as unfortunately the uneducated in such matters seem to think they are experts overnight & despite Wayne's & yourself's quality input, they still continue to moan & troll.They will moan about MSL Jon. You know it, I know it. The thing is though, that those who post on these threads know better, a lot better & we all bother to find out what is actually happening.The bloke on the comments section still thought only 4 TEGAs were used. A two minute check online will have told him that only the Organic Free Blank has remained unused. They cannot even be bothered to find out the basics. You have explained now, what three or four times that Phoenix has EXCEEDED the MAXIMUM mission success criteria, by a huge margin. Not the minimum, the maximum.No matter what we tell them, if they cannot be bothered to find out the facts & choose to troll on this site & also on the NASA Phoenix site, than more fool them. They are missing out on something truly remarkable.It'll it be the same with MSL Jon & I think you realise that all too well. Shame really, an enormous shame indeed. I think too many watch too much Star Trek & Star Wars & thinking that they are documentaries.I just feel like doing this <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/13/31169dd8-2f7d-408f-9d9f-370f3234e28f.Medium.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/14/6d14aa14-8fd1-4920-aed3-b2aa45c766fa.Medium.gif" alt="" />  sometimes because of those who troll & cannot be bothered to find out what has really happened. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Nov 1, 2008

People elsewhere are making disparaging, offensive & troll remarks, Phoenix is going through a difficult patch (the mission is NOT over though, I think far from it).Now I think to cheer ourselves up a bit, I would like to post some of my personal visual highlights from the mission, both Primary & Extended. Have not included any of the trenches, but have kept to the Martian landscape. I hope others will also join in. Sol 0 Phoenix sends back first horizon view. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/14/013de143-3692-437e-9e1f-bb422e60e1a6.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Sol 0 First foot pad view. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/0/9efdc1cd-9121-486a-803a-acb8fd01e6a4.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Sol 0 First view up to horizon.  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/10/26d4274a-4a89-46c6-8a33-1436d84720b2.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> First Colour view of small portion of horizon. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/1/2556ed3f-b295-400a-9134-32a4753cc252.Medium.jpg" alt="" />First 360 degree Panorama. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/7/3b072a54-e197-4e75-9762-01f6c3766ce3.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  First montage of Phoenix looking down on to herself. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/1/8dfc34f4-7fea-4b3f-91dc-82a7cb91f307.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Colour View looking due North. North Pole is approx 1,301 KM / 809 miles north due centre. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/0/f37d483f-682b-45d5-b0f3-70207a468fda.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Wider view looking due north. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/8/9c5cba8a-496d-45c0-a8c3-7b8cdfaabc9b.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Looking West with sampler arm. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/0/b5c4a0e1-7246-45c9-9022-be1695c462b1.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Hills in the South West. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/9/fa8b24c6-4e69-490e-a9ad-6228bf3ed1b6.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Hills in the North West.  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/7/ab54461f-4559-4184-875d-dbe693536a79.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Mission Success Full Colour Panorama. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/2/cb476d60-9b30-4403-a2b4-2a189843723c.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Phoenix montage looking down on herself in colour. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/14/7d79e085-11e3-440c-aef1-0135d47a4347.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Boulders & Phoenix Backshell, Azm 151.58 degrees. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/2/71bb57dc-cddc-42ac-9292-42ce659ec0bf.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Azm 151.58 deg from Phoenix to horizon. Large Boulders & backshell are visible. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/7/2cabfece-f4a5-4dd9-875b-acd990faae86.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Sol 80 @ 00:08 HRS LMST. First ever Midnight Sun on Mars. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/5/2cf19dcd-ca8c-4c30-9509-4f62c1d36651.Medium.jpg" alt="" />First ever Midnight Sun sequence (spread out over 11 sols).  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/12/7b6181c0-4f0e-434c-bc92-e169b78576c7.Medium.jpg" alt="" />First Frost Sol 79. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/6/03a4de07-4e04-4a83-b609-e1a49c7f5e35.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Frosty morning Sol 83. Montage by James Canvin. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/1/db9b1bb5-9fda-4629-a10e-9995103c1ce0.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Sol 90 Sunrise. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/10/0d58fba6-2b71-4be0-9a68-5b1be11691ad.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Sol 101, 01:23 HRS LMST. Sun just below horizon. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/4/12/44879730-aabb-44ca-9c88-d345b63a8a1d.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Sol 117 Dust Devil. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/2/4/e2781f59-a47a-4609-a450-d25a95db1164.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Sol 131 Frosty landscape. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/0/4/30e0f8d5-24e5-4786-8469-fa61ac2c9c77.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

Phoenix Mars Lander Extended Mission. Sol 90+ & R.I.P Sol 157.

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