Phoenix surface mission

MeteorWayne · Jun 16, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I wonder what the "feels like" temperature would be. Posted by centsworth_II</DIV> probably not too much different. There aren't many molecules of atmosphere to carry heat away. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

baulten · Jun 16, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>For the record, the all time low temperature in NJ, is -34 degree Fahrenheit = -36.7 degree Celsius on Jan 5, 1904.The coldest I can recall from my youth was about -15F.Typically, over the last decade or two the winter low in NJ is about -10F. I do no meteor observing below 0 F (-18C), In fact my lowest observing temp ever was for this year's Quadrantidswith a temp of 12F, -11 C. Yes I'm a wimp!!! The lowest ever recorded in the contiguous 48 States, was -69.7°F  (-56.5 degree Celsius) at Rogers Pass, in Lewis and Clark County, Mont., on Jan. 20, 1954. Rogers Pass is on State Highway 200 about 40 miles northwest of Helena. It is in mountainous and heavily forested terrain about one-half mile east of and 140 feet below the summit of the Continental Divide.The coldest temperature ever recorded east of the Mississippi River was -60°F in Tower, Minn., on Feb. 2, 1996.Hawaii is the only state that's never recorded a below-zero temperature. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Coldest I've seen it out here in South Dakota was a bit less than -40F.  Feeding horses on days when it doesn't get above 0F is not fun.  Soooo much ice in water tanks...Mars is seeming quite warm!

Someone asked a little ways up, but I'll ask again: Is there a temp. reading for the region around the two Rovers?

brandbll · Jun 16, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I wonder what the "feels like" temperature would be. Posted by centsworth_II</DIV> The "feels like" temperature in really cold climates always depends on the wind.  If it's -20 and the whindchill is -40 with gusting winds it's going to feel like it's -40.  However if it's -20, no winds, and the sun is shining; it probably would feel warmer than -20. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard! </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 16, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The "feels like" temperature in really cold climates always depends on the wind.  If it's -20 and the whindchill is -40 with gusting winds it's going to feel like it's -40.  However if it's -20, no winds, and the sun is shining; it probably would feel warmer than -20. Posted by brandbll</DIV> That was kind of my point, perhaps not very clear.The reason the wind makes it feel colder on earth is because the wind (air molecules) carry away the heat.On Mars, even though the current wind is SW at 14 kph, there are many fewer molecules to remove the heat. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Philotas · Jun 16, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>On Mars, even though the current wind is SW at 14 kph, there are many fewer molecules to remove the heat. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> Many less indeed. Are there any notable difference between the heat conductivity of Nitrogen/O2 and CO2 in the form of gases, though? Seeing that Mars' atmosphere is made up of 95 % CO2. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 16, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Many less indeed. Are there any notable difference between the heat conductivity of Nitrogen/O2 and CO2 in the form of gases, though? Seeing that Mars' atmosphere is made up of 95 % CO2. Posted by Philotas</DIV> That I do not know, but the density is about 0.8% of that of the earth's surface <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 16, 2008

Phoenix teleconference coming up at top of hour.audio link is active.You can listen live to media telecons on www.nasa.gov/newsaudio New images are up <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Testing · Jun 16, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>That I do not know, but the density is about 0.8% of that of the earth's surface Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>My reference book with the answer to the thermal conductivity is at work and I am not. I'll try to remember to look it up in the AM.    <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

steveisthe1 · Jun 16, 2008

Can anyone tell me if any of the ovens have operated yet? I can't seem to get an update of the mission yet. 21 days have already gone by. That's almost a third of the mission!

MeteorWayne · Jun 16, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Can anyone tell me if any of the ovens have operated yet? I can't seem to get an update of the mission yet. 21 days have already gone by. That's almost a third of the mission! Posted by steveisthe1</DIV> No it's less than 1/4 of the nominal mission. Relax! Yes, TEGA has been operated through a 35 C/95 F cycle, and a 175C/350F  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

thor06 · Jun 16, 2008

Good briefing.  The next 7 days are going to be incredible.  TEGA to 1000C, new trench in wonderland(top of polygon).  Sample "ice"!  Hope to see that chunk in goldi dissapear!  Wow what a mission.<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> www.watchnasatv.com ONE PERCENT FOR NASA! </div>

tanstaafl76 · Jun 16, 2008

Is the teleconference archived somewhere?  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 16, 2008

Ray Ardvidson Science Lead for Arm, Wash UofStLColored topographic map; about 20 cm between highest (pink) and lowest (blue). This is combined Dodo-Goldilocks trench, now combined and deepened. Now about 28 cm wide by 35 cm long.From edge of polygon into a trough. Ice/salt about 5cm below surface, If it's isolated ice, expect it to sublimate; if it's ice connected to lens below ploygon, expect it to have frost fowm on it.Next dig area is "Wonderland" to right of the National Park (within it, though) expected to be flat top of polygon with ice about 5 cm below. This material will be fed to all instruments to get a thorough examination. Can dig 50 cm deep in first day or two. TEGA: First two heating cycles completed. First to 35C/95F showed no sign of wice/water....since it sat on the surface for a fe days, not unexpected. 2nd cycle to 175C/350F No water whatsoever, and no minerals that released water at that temp. CO2 was detected, most likely trapped atmosphere. Next two cycles are both to 1000C/1800F...during next few days depending on using time, comm links and power most wisely. This will likely release bound water.Lander mission are not deterministic. thermal and electical conductivity probe will likely first go into "white material) in new dig, then later come back to Dodo-Goldilocks. In meantime, watch white perrble to the left of that trench. Since it is small pebble; if it's isolated ice, it should sublimate. We'll watch while we go off and do other science.End of Part 1 of scribblenotes. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

JonClarke · Jun 16, 2008

So much for hopes of moisture or ice causing the clumping.Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 16, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> Is the teleconference archived somewhere?  Posted by tanstaafl76</DIV> Yes, on one of the websites, when I find out which one, I'll let you know.Also available by phone 818.354.0383 for 7 days....international number 203.369.3915 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 16, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>So much for hopes of moisture or ice causing the clumping.Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV> Actually, it MIGHT have caused the clumping at macro scales. If you recall, the material didn't make it through the 1 mm screen until after a few days sitting in the sun and low vapor pressure.Because the clumping extended to the MECA OM samples, that doesn't mean what went into the TEGA oven was the same. IIRC, the MECA sample was pretty fresh. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Jun 16, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Actually, it MIGHT have caused the clumping at macro scales. If you recall, the material didn't make it through the 1 mm screen until after a few days sitting in the sun and low vapor pressure.Because the clumping extended to the MECA OM samples, that doesn't mean what went into the TEGA oven was the same. IIRC, the MECA sample was pretty fresh. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Cheers Wayne,My I've been having bloody connection problems again, with the connection hosing up. Back now.A very large pan 6.2 MB (Takes a little while to down load). I see the TEGA has failed to detect H2O when clearly the sample was more then hot enough to drive it off. I am not entirely surprised as I would have thought that trench is not yet deep enough.We're on Sol 22 today, with the martian solstice rapidly approaching a week today now (Earth's just three days earlier). BTW Happy Birthday Wayne. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/9/c5edc8c3-8734-4326-99fa-6767acb867c0.Medium.gif" alt="" /> I think the mission is progressing well, despite two sols when MRO & Odyssey hosed up within a few sols of one another, fortunately both are healthy now, so hopefully we will not lose any more sols.Looks like much of the data is now down for the high res pan & now the soil delivery problem appears to be worked out, things are going very well now. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jun 16, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> crap - I just wrote you a long, detailed post about this, then it deleted because I used the spell checker.Let me summarize:I really doubt that the phases ice 1c (squarish) and ice 1h (hexagonal)......... Posted by silylene</DIV>Cheers silylene. I did wonder if I was correct there, though I did predict squarish polygons. I agree what really we do need to see a straight down view with the polygon edges highlighted. This would be a good task at abouth the time of the Midnight Sun, as the low angle of illumination would show the boundaries very well indeed, as well as the distribution of the smallest stones (under a slightly higher sun, they tend to blend in a bit more).Of course, any frozen H2O will be mixed with the soil, hense it would not necassarily follow the same hexagonal or cuboid ice crystals as pure ice. It was a lame brain idea, I had prior to the arrival of Phoenix that there would be squarish polygons due to the very cold ice forming 1c crystals.What will be interesting will be to see the polygons further away & the distribution of small stones further from Phoenix when the high res images are down.Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

exoscientist · Jun 16, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>So much for hopes of moisture or ice causing the clumping.Jon Posted by jonclarke</DIV>  Er, the theory is the water evaporating/subliming away is what allowed it to pass throught the sieve in the first place. Let's see if they can get a sample through into an oven without having to let it sit exposed to the Sun for days.      Bob Clark <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Jun 17, 2008

Any ideas anyone yet as to the nature of the rocks, surrounding Phoenix? A good one for Jon Clarke, Bob Clark (exoscientist), Lucas, etc.I think we will have to wait for the colour images, but any guesses based on shapes & general forms? Volcanic, Sedimentary, meteorites, mixture of all all three strewn around? A few small stones Sol 21. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/10/85a17b7d-0c53-493c-aa88-d8bd846f7a9b.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Larger rock at azimuth 188 degrees, about 30.5 CM or a foot wide. Sol 21. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/15/12/6f87387e-6af8-4a0c-bca4-aeec47d0905b.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Hopefully the large boulder at Azimuth 151.5 degrees will be examined in detail by the SSI.Snow Queen. Sol 21. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/8/3d0432a3-49c5-4e21-88d0-fed72a8513b5.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Another of Snow Queen. Sol 21. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/3/8e07a8b4-eb46-44d5-931b-0848d11db467.Medium.jpg" alt="" />After a cursory look, does not look like it is subliming after 21 sols being exposed by Phoenix's thrusters.Weather report, Sol 11 to Sol 17 inclusive. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/10/35bd6e96-a948-4c85-9a35-d1c801c8ff96.Medium.bmp" alt="" />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MarkStanaway · Jun 17, 2008

How quickly can they get a sample into that TEGA oven without all the volatiles sublimating away? Would it be possible to practice the manoever with the engineering model on earth and then send the series of commands to dig, dump close oven door in one sequence without waiting for confirmation of each little move which seems to take hours. It seems that speed may be the essence if the want to get a near pristine sample into that oven. I'm probably missing something but its just a thought. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

CalliArcale · Jun 17, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>How quickly can they get a sample into that TEGA oven without all the volatiles sublimating away? Would it be possible to practice the manoever with the engineering model on earth and then send the series of commands to dig, dump close oven door in one sequence without waiting for confirmation of each little move which seems to take hours. It seems that speed may be the essence if the want to get a near pristine sample into that oven. I'm probably missing something but its just a thought. Posted by MarkStanaway</DIV>Part of the trouble is that they can't simulate the behavior of the soil itself, because they don't know enough about it, which is kind of the point of the mission.  ;-)  So although they could certainly send a series of commands to do the whole set of actions, they could ruin the whole thing if the soil doesn't get through the screen or the sample they've dug up doesn't look good or something else goes wrong.  That's why it's important to wait between steps. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

centsworth_II · Jun 17, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>That's why it's important to wait between steps. Posted by CalliArcale</DIV>I would think that the step where they look to see exactly what is in the scoop is especially important.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 17, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> Is the teleconference archived somewhere?  Posted by tanstaafl76</DIV> Link to June 16 teleconference:http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/multimedia/audiobriefing-20080616.html <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 17, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Link to June 16 teleconference:http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/multimedia/audiobriefing-20080616.html Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> Images from teleconference.Color of Dodo and Goldilocks,Elevation of Dodo-Goldilocks.Pink is highest, Blue is about 20 cm (7-8 inches) below.The trenches have been combined. At the back is the edge of a polygon with ice/salt. Note there is none in the front which is in a trough.MW <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/1/ca38ad22-5d67-4da4-81dd-88ebe7083fa5.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/0/12/20754714-0aa4-4f49-9c22-f7e19f43a15f.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Phoenix surface mission

MeteorWayne

Guest

baulten

Guest

brandbll

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

Philotas

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

Testing

Guest

steveisthe1

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

thor06

Guest

tanstaafl76

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

JonClarke

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

3488

Guest

3488

Guest

exoscientist

Guest

3488

Guest

MarkStanaway

Guest

CalliArcale

Guest

centsworth_II

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

Similar threads

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Moderators online

Share this page