Phoenix surface mission

[MeteorWayne]

<p><br />I think this one shows it well, which I missed yesterday while writing my scribblenotes. Notice the darker area around the lander, where the surface dust was blown away.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/images/press/PSP_008591_2485_RGB_Lander_labeled.html<br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/2/1/525fd40d-961e-4f0d-9164-2786d9d732c4.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<div id="post-241867" class="postcolor">About half an hour to the next press conference on NASA TV </div> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[lucaspf]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hi lucaspf,Good point. I see what you mean about the angular shape of rocks, thrown out of an impact. I wonder if we are seeing a mixture here. The volcanic rocks appear to be rounder where as the suspect sedimentary ones are more angular. Two different sources? Are the volcanic ones the native ones here & the sedimentary ones Heimdall Crater ejecta? I dunno, just plucking at straws here.http://www.photodump.com/Anonymous/Various%20rocks%20sol%202.htmlhttp://www.photodump.com/Anonymous/Angular%20rock%20sol%202.htmlhttp://www.photodump.com/Anonymous/Flat%20topped%20small%20rock%20Alt%20-13.91%20deg%20Azm%20160.68%20deg.htmlhttp://www.photodump.com/Anonymous/small%20stones%20Alt%20-14.16%20deg%20Azm%20328.59%20deg%20Sol%202.htmlhttp://www.photodump.com/Anonymous/Area%20close%20to%20Phoenix%20Alt%20-27.17%20deg%20Azm%20328.48%20deg.htmlAndrew Brown. <br /> Posted by 3488</DIV></p><p>Andrew,</p><p>First of all thanks for the discussion and putting up those thumbnails.&nbsp;</p><p>I just need to clarify that while the sedimentary rocks may be angular, they appear to me to be less angular than rocks encountered by the rovers in the tropics. I agree with you that the volcanic rocks are the most rounded, which is interesting. How did they get there in the first place? I am not sure if all the lander stones are from Heimdall.&nbsp; Someone will probably take a closer look at Heimdall to determine how many stones at the landing site are from this crater or not. The majority of the ejecta seems to spill out in the opposite direction of the lander, so I am really curious to see how many stones are ejecta related.</p><p>Have a good one!</p><p>Lucas&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Philotas]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>About half an hour to the next press conference on NASA TV <br />Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV><br /><br />Tuned in. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p>Press Conference Underway on NASA TV</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[Szkeptik]

<p>Well, this one was half as long as previous ones. The decrease in popularity is clear. There were two questions from the press...</p><p>&nbsp;Maybe if they start digging people will start paying more attention again.</p><p>&nbsp;I thought this was a much more informative conference than the previous one though.</p>

 

[Philotas]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Well, this one was half as long as previous ones. The decrease in popularity is clear. There were two questions from the press...&nbsp;Maybe if they start digging people will start paying more attention again.&nbsp;I thought this was a much more informative conference than the previous one though. <br />Posted by Szkeptik</DIV><br /><br />Yeah, that was quite noticeable. It was a shift in audience though, I recon. </p><p>Anyway, I agree that the press conferences are starting to become really interesting. The first ones were mainly going "when we have those images" "when we have the elevation maps" etc.. Now the science is about to commence; really sweet. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p>Yeah, interest is Wayneing.</p><p>I'm trying to find a way to submit questions from folks like us. Why not, if you can keep it under a half hour, why not take a few good questions from outside the "Press". They seem to have an elusive grasp on the subject. To be kind.</p><p>We are far more likely to ask useful questions. Well, buried within the chaff anyway...</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p>Scribblenotes&trade; <br /><br />Phoenix in excellent health.<br /><br />MRO UHF path back online, but for now, while MRO investigates problem, Odyssey will be primary.<br /><br />Question asked later was are you worried about depending on Odyssey since it's so old? Barry replied...it's as old as the hardware of Phoenix, so I'm not worried at all.<br /><br />Basic layout of a Sol.<br /><br />Both MRO and O (I'm tired of typing Odyssey, then retyping it tree or fourt imes. I will use O for O from now on&nbsp;<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /> )<br />pass overhead several times a day. Good passes in the morning from one or the other for downlink to Phoenix, good passes from one or the other for data in the evening. <br />there are also "burp" passes for engineering data when the data rate might not be great, but you can still exchange some data.<br /><br />So for now, while MRO troubleshoots the UHF transciever, O is now primary. MRO can be used if needed, but for now, let the troubleshooting go on, so everything can be checked out (Hard to do when you are online-MW)<br /><br />Image shown in polar view of what has been surveyed.<br />Calibration plates available for color correction.<br /><br />3D SSI map showing troughs and high spots<br />Imaging Priorities:<br />1. Low resolution B&W 360 degree pan. Should be finished within the next 2 Sols.<br />2. Color Panorama will fit in between other activity over the next 2-3 weeks<br />3. Selected targets will be imaged at high res as needed.<br /><br />Workspace:<br />The area that the arm can reach is limited. It's only 8 feet long after all.<br />Alt-Az at shoulder, Hinge at elbow, and a scooping wrist.<br />To be unstowed during the next two Sols ("today and tomorrow")<br />Certain areas within the workspace have been designated "Nature Preserves) that won't be touched for now.<br />An area has been selected for the first TERP (Thermal Electrical Conductivity Probe) outside of the Preserve.<br /><br />More later, MW<br /><br />First Dig Early to mid next week<br />It's just a way of placing certain areas of the workplace off limits until more data is received.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[thor06]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Yeah, interest is Wayneing.I'm trying to find a way to submit questions from folks like us. Why not, if you can keep it under a half hour, why not take a few good questions from outside the "Press". They seem to have an elusive grasp on the subject. To be kind.We are far more likely to ask useful questions. Well, buried within the chaff anyway... <br /> Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>This is a great idea on many levels.&nbsp; Is it possible for the SDC repoter to view forums and call in?&nbsp; The other route might be from the NASA side, they read "a forum" looking for good questions.&nbsp; I can remember chatting with Anderson Cooper and Alison Stewart back when they were noobs on ABC World News Now.&nbsp; They would read posts during commercial breaks and talk about it in on air segments.</p><p>Thoughts?&nbsp; It seems to me the SDC route would be the best/easier of the two and might lead to option 2 anyway.&nbsp; It would also be a feather in the cap of SDC, an "exculsive" of sorts.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> <font color="#0000ff">                           www.watchnasatv.com</font></p><p>                          ONE PERCENT FOR NASA! </p> </div>

 

[efron_24]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;This is a great idea on many levels.&nbsp; Is it possible for the SDC repoter to view forums and call in?&nbsp; The other route might be from the NASA side, they read "a forum" looking for good questions.&nbsp; I can remember chatting with Anderson Cooper and Alison Stewart back when they were noobs on ABC World News Now.&nbsp; They would read posts during commercial breaks and talk about it in on air segments.Thoughts?&nbsp; It seems to me the SDC route would be the best/easier of the two and might lead to option 2 anyway.&nbsp; It would also be a feather in the cap of SDC, an "exculsive" of sorts.&nbsp; <br />Posted by thor06</DIV></p><p>Perhaps one of you Americans can mail the Universtity or Nasa</p><p>Ask if it is ok if some here just collect the questions asked in this forum and if the team finds them good enough let them answer it. By doing so, they will first notice the fact that people are very interested, and more people will visit this forum too.</p><p>8ft is about 2m50 btw.</p><p>Is this 360 degrees around Phoenix, or only in one direction</p><p>If 360 degrees, it would be the area of an ordinary livingroom (in a Dutch inner city-house)</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Mee_n_Mac]

<p>I was wondering if the details (velocities vs altitude, rotations, etc) of the final descent and landing have been made public. The pics of the footpad make it appear the lander had very little horizontal (and/or rocking and/or rotational) motion when it contacted the surface.&nbsp; Also I wonder just how fast was the lander actually going for it's "soft" touchdown ?&nbsp; </p><p>Apparently a lot slower than MPL ! <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-----------------------------------------------------</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Ask not what your Forum Software can do do on you,</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">Ask it to, please for the love of all that's Holy, <strong>STOP</strong> !</font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I was wondering if the details (velocities vs altitude, rotations, etc) of the final descent and landing have been made public. The pics of the footpad make it appear the lander had very little horizontal (and/or rocking and/or rotational) motion when it contacted the surface.&nbsp; Also I wonder just how fast was the lander actually going for it's "soft" touchdown ?&nbsp; Apparently a lot slower than MPL ! <br />Posted by mee_n_mac</DIV><br /><br />IIRC, it was 2.5 meters/sec down (absorbed by the legs) and less tahn 0.1 m/sec horizontally. </p><p>Let me check my notes, I'll correct it if needed.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[doublehelix]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;This is a great idea on many levels.&nbsp; Is it possible for the SDC repoter to view forums and call in?&nbsp; The other route might be from the NASA side, they read "a forum" looking for good questions.&nbsp; I can remember chatting with Anderson Cooper and Alison Stewart back when they were noobs on ABC World News Now.&nbsp; They would read posts during commercial breaks and talk about it in on air segments.Thoughts?&nbsp; It seems to me the SDC route would be the best/easier of the two and might lead to option 2 anyway.&nbsp; It would also be a feather in the cap of SDC, an "exculsive" of sorts.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by thor06</DIV></p><p><font color="#0000ff">thor, thanks for your comments (and to everyone for supporting comments here and off board).&nbsp; Wanted to let you know I read this and will take some time to consider it.&nbsp; I've got to leave the office in a bit so I can't focus completely just right now, but I'll respond more thoughtfully tomorrow.&nbsp;</font></p><p><font color="#0000ff">-dh&nbsp;</font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#3366ff">doublehelix, Community Manager<br />Imaginova </font></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<p>Some other groups have invited a prominent person in and they have done a Q and A session in the forum.&nbsp; If were given several ays notice the questions could be quite good.&nbsp; Maybe this is something we could do?</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[tanstaafl76]

<p>&nbsp;</p><p>Given the&nbsp; nature of a high polar location, I'm kind of surprised they didn't decide to make the Phoenix lander nuclear powered.&nbsp; Is there a particular reason for this?&nbsp; Is it more expensive to make it nuclear powered?&nbsp; Were they worried about contaminating the surface of Mars with any radiation leaks?</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[3488]

<p><strong><font size="2"><font color="#000000">Cheers Wayne, great stuff as always from you.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br /><br />Due to my internet & phoneline not working till a little while ago, I've missed today's Press Briefing . <br /><br />Wayne's Scribblenotes though are good enough to inform me of what was said, so I will not read all the gumpf on the websites, I am just downloading images.</font></font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2"><font color="#000000"><br /></font><font color="#000000">Thanks to Bearack, for letting me know that a simple copy & paste will post decent images.</font></font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2" color="#000000">Like the one released today below very much. Superb. Looking towards the North West in colour.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">If anyone wants to see the full 5.2 MB Hi resolution&nbsp;one, feel free to click on link below.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2" color="#000080">http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/231350main_sol002_runout_color.jpg</font></strong></p><p><font size="2" color="#800000">Oop's cant get it to paste as an image. Below a smaller image. Only a few KB.</font></p><p>www.jpl.nasa.gov/images/phoenix/collection_16/sol002_runout_color_800-600.jpg" alt="" /></p><p><strong><font size="2" color="#000080">Andrew Brown.</font></strong></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[tanstaafl76]

<p>&nbsp;</p><p>Sorry one other question, when the braking rockets on the bottom of the Phoenix fired, would they have affected the landing site that Phoenix sat down on?&nbsp; Since Phoenix is not mobile, is this going to be a situation where we're analyzing material that has been blasted by landing rockets and thus contaminated?</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[3488]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;<font color="#ff0000">Sorry one other question, when the braking rockets on the bottom of the Phoenix fired, would they have affected the landing site that Phoenix sat down on?&nbsp; Since Phoenix is not mobile, is this going to be a situation where we're analyzing material that has been blasted by landing rockets and thus contaminated?&nbsp; <br />Posted by tanstaafl76</font></DIV></p><p><strong><font size="2">Hi tanstaafl76.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">Yes that has been thought off. The composition & chemical reactions of the thuster exhausts under Phoenix are well known. </font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">The signature from those will be removed from the readings & what's left is Martian chemistry.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">Andrew Brown.</font></strong></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><font color="#ff0000">Andrew,First of all thanks for the discussion and putting up those thumbnails.&nbsp;I just need to clarify that while the sedimentary rocks may be angular, they appear to me to be less angular than rocks encountered by the rovers in the tropics. I agree with you that the volcanic rocks are the most rounded, which is interesting. How did they get there in the first place? I am not sure if all the lander stones are from Heimdall.&nbsp; Someone will probably take a closer look at Heimdall to determine how many stones at the landing site are from this crater or not. The majority of the ejecta seems to spill out in the opposite direction of the lander, so I am really curious to see how many stones are ejecta related.Have a good one!Lucas&nbsp; <br />Posted by lucaspf</font></DIV></p><p><strong><font size="2">Cheers lucaspf.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">I too am not sure if all the stones are from Heimdall Crater either. I suspect not & I think Phoenix has stumbled across at least two very distinct types, not usually found together.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">Almost certainly, at least two are in the&nbsp;image showing the Phoenix Messages from Earth DVD & the American Flag. The others to me do look sedimentary.</font></strong></p><p><font size="2" color="#000080"><font color="#000000"><strong>http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/230871main_S_001RAD_PER_S_10D10_RRGBM1.jpg</strong></font></font><br /><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/2/14/128b6512-79c0-4421-9e75-ea0f9e24b901.Medium.jpg" alt="" /></p><p><strong><font size="2">I'm not sure as to why the volcanic basalts would be more rounded than the suspected sedimentary rocks. </font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">To me there are two distinct sources. Really we need to get the MRO HiRISE to really case out Heimdall Crater from orbit, perhaps&nbsp;Odyssey could do likewise with THEMIS & together get a good spectral & visual assessment that may help put that question out to pasture. </font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">Which type if either came from Heimdall Crater? Volcanic or Sedimentary? If it can be proven that the sedimentary rock is from heimdall, then likely the volcanic is native to the Phoenix site.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">However, there are hills to the south & so far virtually nothing is known about those. When we get the full 360 degree panorama done, perhaps the relationship between the rocks & the surrounding area may make more sense.</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">Also to me, the alternately frozen & thawed surface may be too deep for the arm of Phoenix to dig down to the underlying bedrock in 90 sols or so. </font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">Perhaps Jon Clarke or Bob Clark (exoscientist)&nbsp;may know??? This is going to be very interesting. I for one am curious to the source of the volcanic rocks? </font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">I know that Phoenix has landed north of the Tharsis area, particularly the gigantic Olympus Mons (they're both at a similar longitude, but Olympus Mons is at 18 N, where as Phoenix is at 68 N)&nbsp;but Phoenix surely is far too far away to be able to image Tharsis volcanic rocks?????</font></strong></p><p><strong><font size="2">Andrew Brown.</font></strong></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[EricG]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;Given the&nbsp; nature of a high polar location, I'm kind of surprised they didn't decide to make the Phoenix lander nuclear powered.&nbsp; Is there a particular reason for this?&nbsp; Is it more expensive to make it nuclear powered?&nbsp; Were they worried about contaminating the surface of Mars with any radiation leaks? <br /> Posted by tanstaafl76</DIV>Probably because:</p><p>1) Many years ago, Phoenix was designed to land at the equator.</p><p>2) American public is scared of the word "nuclear."</p>

 

[Cygnus_2112]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;Given the&nbsp; nature of a high polar location, I'm kind of surprised they didn't decide to make the Phoenix lander nuclear powered.&nbsp; Is there a particular reason for this?&nbsp; Is it more expensive to make it nuclear powered?&nbsp; Were they worried about contaminating the surface of Mars with any radiation leaks? <br /> Posted by tanstaafl76</DIV></p><p>This was a low cost Mars "Scout"&nbsp; mission.&nbsp; The funding level would not permit an RTG. &nbsp;&nbsp;</p>

 

[lampblack]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>This was a low cost Mars "Scout"&nbsp; mission.&nbsp; The funding level would not permit an RTG. &nbsp;&nbsp; <br />Posted by Cygnus_2112</DIV><br /><br />That... and the very limited supply of plutonium.</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[lucaspf]

Does anybody know what those weird raw images are? They look overexposed or something. Are they calibration images? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[efron_24]

<p>There are new photo's on the Phoenix site and it includes an almost complete panorama..</p><p>http://phoenix.lpl.arizona.edu/images.php?gID=814&cID=8</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>