Pictures of moon

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frunko1

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I have always wondered why there are no pictures of the moon from the Hubble or other powerful telescope showing what the moon landing sites look like today. Like seeing if the flags are still standing.<br /><br />Or is there a site I just don't know about that has these pictures.<br /><br />Thanks <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />
 
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MeteorWayne

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There are many threads that cover this subject.<br />You can search through the forums to read them<br /><br />No telescopes have the angular resolution necessary to detect any objects left over.<br />It's just not physically possible.<br />Soon, there are a few upcoming spacecraft that will be close enough to accomplish this.<br /><br />"Physics is your friend"<br /><br />Wayne<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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Hi there.<br /><br />The problem is the scale of things. The Hubble can see to a resolution of about 100 metres <br />on the Moon.<br /><br />That although very impressive, is still far too course to show artificial hardware left behind<br />by Apollo.<br /><br />We will have to wait until October 2008, for the arrival of the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter,<br />with its HiRISE camera (a twin of the one orbiting Mars).<br /><br />Also no ground based telescope can accomplish this either. <br /><br />Although Adaptive Optics help, Earth based telescopes are still hindered by having to <br />look through the Earth's unsteady atmosphere.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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Here's a good explnation (not mine, cause I don't have time to do all the math right now)<br /><br />"The theoretical resolving power of a telescope, measured in arc seconds, is calculated by dividing the aperture of the telescope (in inches) into 4.56. The largest telescope on Earth is the 10-meter Keck telescope in Hawaii. The theoretical resolving power of this telescope is 0.012", however the Earth's atmosphere limits the resolving power of any ground-based telescope to about 0.5"-1.0". The Hubble Space Telescope does not suffer from this limitation; thus, with an aperture of 94 inches, HST's resolving power is 0.05". At the Earth-Moon distance of 239,000 miles, the smallest object that can be resolved by HST is about 300 feet. The largest dimension of any hardware left behind on the Moon is 31 feet, which is the diagonal distance across the LM's footpads. No telescope, presently in existence, can see the Apollo hardware from Earth. "<br /><br />Hope this helps, Wayne<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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usn_skwerl

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interesting, and somewhat disappointing. its a shame they cant snag a picture of the long shadows of the objects when the sun is low in the lunar sky. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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Boris_Badenov

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In another thread someone figured out the aperture size necessary to capture a pic of the surface of Gliese 876 d. That aperture would have to be 52 miles in diameter. Just a guess at the aperture for viewing Lunar Landing artifact's, I'd say it would have to be in the 30 meter range. Pretty big by any standards. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>
 
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vandivx

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this subject is another example of inflated expectations from science generally<br /><br />I can see how easy it is to imagine that today's telescopes could see you changing socks on the Moon but reality is much more sober as always<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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anthmartian

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You could also argue that it reflects the complete opposite of inflated expectations. Many people see highly detailed Hubble images from distant locations in the universe, and understandably reason that an object as close as the Moon, or things actually on it should be a piece of cake.<br /><br />Therefore it is an under appreciation of how big, how bright etc these distant objects Hubble is imaging are that can lead to this question too. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em>"Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"</em></font></p><p><font color="#33cccc"><strong>Han Solo - 1977 - A long time ago in a galaxy far far away....</strong></font></p><p><br /><br />Click Here And jump over to my site.<br /></p> </div>
 
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CalliArcale

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Yeah; I think the real problem isn't inflated expectations so much as an underappreciation for the vast scales involved.<br /><br />"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space." -- The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy<br /><br />I have to wonder how terrifyingly alone it must have felt to be on one of the Apollo spacecraft during the long cruises to and from the Moon.<br /><br />The closest things there are to Apollo site pictures are images of disturbed soil taken by Clementine (a technology demonstrator by the USAF which incidentally was also exploited to get a bit of scientific data in the progress). The blast from the LM descent engine didn't dig out a crater, but it did dust things off a bit. This exposed material that hadn't aged as much in the high energy bombardment from the Moon. It's not much to look at, but it is the closest thing there is to an LM picture from space. It shows a smudge, basically. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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vandivx

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I'd like to note that it doesn't have to reflect badly on one if one asks such questions, it depends if one is in process of learning<br /><br />on the other hand you have many folks who are not really interested in such facts and just keep daydreaming in science fiction style and go on discussing planets/stars/galaxies etc almost like it was their backyard distance vise and all speculations in sciences were to come true tomorrow<br /><br />from what little I know about telescopes, I believe those very impressive large diameter mirrors and mirror arrays in big telescopes are not magnifying as much as light gathering, that's why they can see very far objects but don't necessarily pickup such extreme details in the nearby ones like the Moon or planets<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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Smersh

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<font color="yellow">MeteorWayne<br />Soon, there are a few upcoming spacecraft that will be close enough to accomplish this.</font><br /><br />I think I heard on a news report somewhere that the Japanese are planning to send a spacecraft into lunar orbit later this year, which it is believed would be capable of spotting the landers and the flags. Has anybody heard this?<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1><p><font color="#800000"><em>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea."<br />Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."</em></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Website / forums </strong></font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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The Japanese are getting good at this sort of thing.<br /><br />Assuming a successful launch, Selene is going to reveal much.<br /><br />Together with Smart 1 (already ended), LRO due to follow on, Selene & LRO will deliver the <br />most lunar science since Apollo.<br /><br />Great developments, very exciting.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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nimbus

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Will Selene offer evidence to confirm or refute Clementine's detection of water under Shackleton crater? <br />Will it image any evidence of the '69 landing? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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3488

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AFAIK, both options are mission objectives.<br /><br /> Shackleton Crater from Smart 1.<br /><br />I never ever have bought in to the pathetic Apollo hoax conspiracies.<br /><br />I was lucky enough to had met the late Jim Irwin & Alfred Worden (who remained <br />in the CM) both from Apollo 15. <br /><br />So AFAIAC there is nothing to proove.<br /><br />What would be interesting though, would be to detect signs of space weathering on Apollo hardware.<br /><br />That would be worth investigating.<br /><br />Really an extension of what Apollo 12 started by bringing peices back from <br />Surveyor 3, which had landed successfully two & a half years eariler.<br /><br />Below 19 KM wide Shackleton Crater as seen from Smart 1.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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Smersh

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<font color="yellow">Hiro2002<br /> />>Japanese are planning to send a spacecraft<br /><br />It's "KAGUYA" (SELENE) .<br />http://www.jaxa.jp/projects/sat/selene/index_e.html<br /><br /><br />JAXA said It's difficult for KAGUYA to spot the landers and the flags.<br />http://moon.jaxa.jp/ja/popular/story03/selene.html<br />(Japanese page. please use transrator) </font><br /><br />Thanks for the info! However, I personally would be quite disappointed if none of the planned orbiters would be able to spot Apollo, as I thought maybe it would put to bed once and for all all this nonsense about "Did they really go to the moon?" etc. (Although no doubt there will then be other conspiracy theories saying all these spacecraft were hoaxes too ...) <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1><p><font color="#800000"><em>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea."<br />Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."</em></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Website / forums </strong></font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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I'm afraid you are probably right there Smersh.<br /><br />Pseudo scientific nonsense & the type that peddle that kind of nonsense will not go<br />away unfortunately.<br /><br />I do not know about Selene in particular in this respect, but the upcoming<br />Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter will have that capability.<br /><br />AFAIK, Selene does carry an impressive high resolution camera, so would not be<br />surprised if Selene shows us Apollo hardware.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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mithridates

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ã˜ã‚ƒã‚é‡è¦ãªæ‰€ã‚’英語ã§ç¿»è¨³ã—ã¦ã‚ã’ã¾ã™ã€‚<br /><br />(I'll translate the important parts into English)<br /><br />In 2007 Japan will be launching its own Moon probe SELENE, carrying three types of cameras to take pictures of the surface of the Moon. One of the three cameras is for taking pictures of geographic shapes and will be able to take pictures up to a resolution of 8 metres per pixel. <br /><br />So how big was the size of the Apollo lander then? Apollo only left the bottom part (the lower module) on the Moon, and this is 1.5 m.<br /><br />Other objects left on the Moon are the moon rovers; as an example the size of the one for Apollo 17 was 3.1 m.<br /><br />SELENE won't be able to resolve these blah blah blah...<br /><br />One sole possibility would be to take a picture of the Moon during the morning or evening (i.e. just when the sun is right next to the horizon). If that happens the longer shadows can be seen and at least we'll know that something's there. However, for this as well, whether it's a rock or a remainder of the Apollo mission, it's extremely difficult to tell. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>
 
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Smersh

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<font color="yellow">3488<br />Pseudo scientific nonsense & the type that peddle that kind of nonsense will not go away unfortunately.</font><br /><br />Sadly that's true. I think these people are known as "flat earthers," (amongst other things.)<br /><br /><font color="yellow">AFAIK, Selene does carry an impressive high resolution camera, so would not be surprised if Selene shows us Apollo hardware.</font><br /><br />Well, lets keep our fingers crossed! If not Selene, maybe one of the other planned orbiters can achieve it, such as the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter you mentioned.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1><p><font color="#800000"><em>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea."<br />Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."</em></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Website / forums </strong></font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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Just looked at the Selene site through the link posted at the start, in great detail.<br /><br />WOW, the Japanese are getting this done well. The instrumentation is very impressive.<br /><br />Yes it appears the highest resolution images will yield 8 - 10 metres (26 - 33 feet).<br /><br />As already said, that is not quite enought to image Apollo hardware.<br /><br />One thing that might be doable, would be towards the end of the mission, would be<br />to lower the orbit to, maybe just above mountain height (8 - 10 km).<br /><br />Use that orbit to image the Apollo sites & other interesting natural features.<br /><br />Link here to the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter.<br /><br />The Lunar Recconaissance Orbiter Camera (LROC), is essentially the twin of the <br />HiRISE aboard the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter. LROC will be able to image most of the <br />Moon to 80 cm - 1 metre resolution.<br /><br />This will be a real investigation. The Lunar polar regions are expected to be imaged at that <br />resolution as are many other regions including the far side.<br /><br />I hope we get some really interesting stuff about lunar volcanism!!!!!!!!<br /><br />High resolution minerological maps will reveal much also.<br /><br />P.S. I quite like this one of the floor of Rima Hadley (Hadley Rille), collapsed lava tube. <br /><br />Apollo 15.<br /><br />Image: AS15-84-11288.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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3488

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This might be a stupid question.<br /><br />How did the layering occur in Mount Hadley Delta?<br /><br />Summit region image below.<br /><br />Apollo 15.<br /><br />Image: AS15-184-11296.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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robnissen

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<font color="yellow">Yes it appears the highest resolution images will yield 8 - 10 metres (26 - 33 feet). <br /><br />As already said, that is not quite enought to image Apollo hardware. </font><br /><br />Maybe not. The span of the landing gear is 9.07 meters, with the lower half of the module at 4.27 meters. Given the right light, there might be the ability to see at least the landing gear.<br />
 
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JonClarke

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Hi Andrew<br /><br />The layering is supposed to be illusionary but I don't know. It looks quite convincing to me.<br /><br />If real, there I two possibilities I can think of. If Hadley delta is Imbrium age ejecta then such ejecta can be stratified. If it is uplifted primordial anorthositic crust, then it may be igenous layering, which can happen through a range of processes like crystal loading and settling, magma pulsing, etc.<br /><br />Cheers<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>
 
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