Speed of Light and Information Potential

[devildogdad]

<br /><br />From my understanding of how things work the faster an object travels the less of the object we see. In one example I have seen they take a car moving at 120 mph and measure its length at speed and come up with a length of 15.999999999917 feet. When measured at rest the car is found to be exactly 16 feet. So it would appear that at car, from the perspective of the observer, had shrunk by .0000000000083 inches. To those traveling in the car it stayed the same size, but to those outside it lost volume. <br /><br />Now my question is could this effect be nothing more then an optical illusion? Could it be that as an object approaches the less light there is reflected back by the object and the less information that is carried by that reflected light.<br /><br />Another way to say is that light works like a train with billions of cars attached in a single line. As the train moves between points A (the object) and point B (the observer) it makes a complete line of information. The faster that object A moves the less time there is for our train to carry information back to observer B before object A as moved into the next frame. The less information we get back and the smaller object A appears to be. <br />

 

[igorsboss]

<font color="yellow">The faster that object A moves the less time there is for our train to carry information back to observer B before object A as moved into the next frame.</font><br /><br />Are you suggesting that B sees fewer cars? If so, this does not match what is observed: observer B would still see all of the cars. Information is squished, but not lost.

 

[jatslo]

<font face="verdana">You have to measure the length of the pulse at different velocities to prove length contraction. This would be a particular interesting experiment, if you could measure the length of light pulses traveling at different velocities.<br /><br />Let's say the following Models 1 & 2, whereas "Point B" is the start of the pulse and "Point A" as is the end of the pulse:<br /><br />MODEL 1: -(v) = -(c)<br /><br />Point A.............................................................Point B<br /><br />MODEL 2: -(v) = -(2c)<br /><br />Point A.............................Point B ( Contracted )<br /><br />As you can see; Models 1 and 2 are single events, which are bound to the laws governing the speed-of-light; however, Model 2 is moving between points A and B at -(2c). Sorry, it is difficult to explain in two dimensions. You have to measure its length to determine its velocity relative to your position. The illusion is that you will perceive the light not exceeding -(c), when in fact it is. When length contraction is severe enough, the object will become invisible/undetectable.</font><br /><br />It is too bad that nobody can see my point of view.<br /><br />If I were doing an experiment of this type, I think I would utilize temperatures in a vacuum to regulate velocities of light pulses, and then measure their lengths that way.

 

[mcbethcg]

No one can see your point of view because you dont understand physics. You make things up and misunderstand every article you read.

 

[jatslo]

Okay, what did I do wrong in the above post then?

 

[bobw]

For starters, <font color="yellow">I would utilize temperatures in a vacuum to regulate velocities of light</font><br /><br />http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae127.cfm<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><br />Question<br /><br />If temperature is 'The average kinetic energy of particles' (i.e. if you measure the temperature of a cup of water it is the average of all the water molecules in the cup), then how does one determine the temperature of a vacuum? (Division by zero error)<br /><br />Asked by: Jeff Retty<br /><br />Answer<br /><br />One doesn't determine the temperature of a vacuum. Just as 'nothingness' has no color, taste, smell, etc. it also has no temperature. That is because, as you point out in your question, there are no particles whose kinetic energy can be measured or averaged.<br /><br />Only objects within a vacuum can have a temperature, and that temperature will depend on the balance of incoming and outgoing radiation. Electromagnetic radiation can travel through a vacuum, so objects in space of any temperature above the near absolute zero (0 Kelvin = about -273 deg C.) temperature of cosmic background radiation (which is about 3 Kelvin) will radiate energy into space. Without another source of energy replacing that loss (a nearby Sun, for example) the object's temperature will decrease. That is why you read about 'the coldness of outer space'.<br /><br />Answered by: Paul Walorski, B.A. Physics, Part-time Physics Instructor<br /><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jatslo]

I either want a zero resistive medium or a vacuum encapsulated tub, so that I may regulate temperatures without causing friction. I think that light behaves differently in temperatures, and what I want to do is measure the length contraction to prove or disprove it. Right, the vacuum will have thermal radiation in it.<br /><br />How is this accomplished?<br /><br />

 

[bobw]

I can't see your point of view so I don't know how to accomplish it. Sorry. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">I think that light behaves differently in temperatures</font><br /><br />Light does not have temperature. Light has a frequency. The hotter a glow object, the higher the frequency of its glow. This has nothing to do with its speed. However, I heard in a few places that the positive curvature in space-time slows down the propagation of light.... (the inverse, negative cuvature, might speed it up) <-- that might be a wrong interpretation.

 

[jatslo]

How do I do that? I need to measure the length at different velocities.

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">How do I do that? I need to measure the length at different velocities.</font><br /><br />Do what? I wasn't giving you instructions for anything.

 

[jatslo]

<font face="verdana"><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>curvature in space-time slows down the propagation of light<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>How can I set up this experiment? Any thoughts?</font>

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">How can I set up this experiment? Any thoughts?</font><br /><br />People have already done these kinds of experiments. Frankly, it would be a waste of your money, and you might as well just research the experiments that have already been done.

 

[jatslo]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>research the experiments that have already been done<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>People have already measured the length of light at different velocities? What experiments? I don't want to do something that has already been done, that is for sure.

 

[kmarinas86]

The speed of light slows near gravity according to relativity.<br /><br />http://www.google.com/search?q="light+slows+near"<br /><br />http://www.physicspost.com/articles.php?articleId=101&page=13<br /><font color="yellow">This also accounts for only half of the delay observed. But if we account for the time dilation in addition to the extra radial length (since Einstein says the speed of light slows near the source of gravity as in figure 25), the total delay would be found by integration to yield for a first approximation.</font><br /><br />Source of gravity = source for positive-curvature in the space-time fabric<br /><br />When the surrounding gravity is weak, we have space-time which is not as curved (in the spherical sense). In an area of negative space curvature, time dilation would be less than what is possible in flat space. There is less "gravitational friction" (if you want to call it that) in space, and the more negatively curved the space is, the faster the speed of light is (but this is just really due to a reduction in time dilation).<br /><br />Even if a star is optically 4.2 light years away, it is actually closer than we think if the space in between is negatively curved (like a saddle). And also, time dilation between the stars would be less than we expect if the space there is negatively curved rather than near-flat. It is this "near-flatness" which is assumed by the current day majority. However, the space between the stars is not flat at all, and is curved (and pehaps in the negative way as well).<br /><br />http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/cosmo/lectures/lec15.html

 

[brucegagnon]

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