STS-122 (1E) Updates

billslugg · Dec 20, 2007

Why do they not simply go out to the pad with a soldering iron and solder the connections? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

tanstaafl76 · Dec 20, 2007

Man I dunno, I would love to think they could fix this in that short time, it just seems optimistic. Keeping my fingers crossed... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

billslugg · Dec 20, 2007

Well, science, engineering, politics all go away once the thing is sitting on the pad. Any connectors/plugs/sockets were there for the convenience of the erectors. Once it is there, solder it up BABY! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

montmein69 · Dec 20, 2007

The plan is to remove the connector and harness at the pad. Reproduce the failure in the lab and design a fix. The fix may be able to be installed at the pad This could fix the issue, if it is located on the external part of the connector. But as far as I looked on the diagrams a part of the connector is inside the LH2 tank. Did the test discriminated the part that is involved ? Or is it possible to access in the tank on the pad, using the manhole with a special protection ? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

tanstaafl76 · Dec 21, 2007

TRUE REASON FOR SHUTTLE DELAY UNCOVERED: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SI1rYWI_zL0 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Dec 21, 2007

Dec. 21, 2007 George H. Diller Kennedy Space Center, Fla. 321-867-2468 george.h.diller@nasa.gov STATUS REPORT: S-122107 NASA'S SPACE SHUTTLE PROCESSING STATUS REPORT Mission: STS-122 - 24th International Space Station Flight - Columbus Module Vehicle: Atlantis (OV-104) Location: Launch Pad 39A Launch Date: Targeted for Jan. 10, 2008 Crew: Frick, Poindexter, Schlegel, Eyharts, Love, Melvin, Walheim Inclination/Orbit Altitude: 51.6 degrees/122 nautical miles A tanking test was conducted at Launch Pad 39A on Tuesday to aid in troubleshooting the cause of malfunctioning engine cutoff (ECO) sensors. Technicians spliced test wiring into the ECO sensor electrical system and used time domain reflectometry equipment to help locate the electrical anomaly. Results of the tanking test pointed to an open circuit in the feed-through connector wiring, which is located at the base of the tank. The feed-through connector passes the wires from the inside of the tank to the outside. Today technicians removed foam insulation covering the feed-through connector box, and workers from Lockheed-Martin will begin inspecting and testing the connector if approval is received for its removal next week. Shuttle program managers will meet on Dec. 27 to further review the data analysis from the tanking test conducted earlier this week and decide on a forward plan. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

erioladastra · Dec 21, 2007

"I understand that the program has given up on even considering Jan 10th as the launch date. No new target date has been set. " Well we are going to go ahead with the reboost next week to keep that option open. But I agree with you S_G, it is very unlikely. Mission Operations is not really working 1E preps next week so it is unlikely unless the programs makes some radical philosophical changes (e.g., BGA EVA post 1E without Tani).

rocketwatcher2001 · Dec 21, 2007

The ECO team expects that the entire ET LH2 ECO feed through connector and the wire harness leading to the Orbiter will be removed by Dec. 27th. These items will then be tested in the cryo lab to determine the exact cause of the anomalies. Folks, sorry if I'm asking such a dumb question, but it's been one of those weeks. Is the suspected fault in a part of the STS stack, and not on the ground equipment? If so, have all of the post-STS-107 stacks had the same configuration but with new hardware each time that has scrubbed all but 1 first time launch attempts since RTF? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

montmein69 · Dec 22, 2007

The ECO team expects that the entire ET LH2 ECO feed through connector and the wire harness leading to the Orbiter will be removed by Dec. 27th. These items will then be tested in the cryo lab to determine the exact cause of the anomalies. The "entire ET LH2 feed through connector" ... Does it also mean the internal part ? If so they have to open the manhole at the bottom of the ET ... haven't they ? You said in a previous post that such a repair must be done in the VAB. Could a new protocol be decided or is the opening depending on a rollback decision ? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

cbased · Dec 22, 2007

Yes, I wanted to ask a similar question while reading this thread. it says "connector" and I wonder if the actual problem is inside the tank (crio temperatures) or outside. Probably it will be easier to fix it if it is outside...

MeteorWayne · Dec 22, 2007

News from Spaceflightnow "Engineers have been provisionally cleared to remove a suspect feed-through plug and an external connector from the shuttle Atlantis' external fuel tank for laboratory testing and a possible fix to eliminate intermittent electrical glitches with low-level engine-cutoff sensors. In an interview today with CBS News, shuttle Program Manager Wayne Hale said no final decisions have been made, but one leading candidate for a near-term repair is to possibly solder the external socket to the male pins in the pass-through connector to eliminate any open circuits in that part of the system when it is chilled to cryogenic temperatuures. This scenario assumes the internal connector is sound and is not contributing to the problem. The internal connector cannot be modified unless repair crews enter the external tank, work that likely would require a roll back to the Vehicle Assembly Building. "The leading contender today is we will, starting next week, pull the through plug with the external connector, all in one piece, off (the tank), clip the wires and wire harness and send that whole assembly off to the lab for teardown and evaluation," he said. "Then in parallel, we've got a (qualification) process that's going through a solder of the wires directly to the male pins of the pass through. And of course, you close all that out, splice your wires into the wire harness and plug it back in." But that is simply one option under consideration." <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

billslugg · Dec 22, 2007

Now that mention is made of the possibility of actually soldering the joint, I must ask the question: What is required to get something certified for human flight? Certainly there is no "FAA" hovering over NASA. With another agency, approval could take months. Could not NASA have a meeting where the fix is agreed to and then deemed certified? Does not NASA have "one stop shopping" when it comes to fixes, approvals, and certifications? EDIT: During the Apollo 13 baling wire and duct tape episode, was there a formal "declaration of certification" for the fixes? Is there like a "certification" guy who sits in on the meeting and nods his head? Or is it fait accompli that it is "certified" if it runs up the chain all the way to the NASA administrator and is approved? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Dec 22, 2007

I would think that they will have to run tests in the lab under cryo conditions to ensure the soldered joint will hold. As I suggested a page or two ago, if one broke loose and started flopping around, bad things could happen. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

billslugg · Dec 22, 2007

Yes, granted everything tests out OK and everybody agrees that it is the right thing to do. S_G says that is not good enough. It must be "certified". My question is "What does that mean?" Does the FAA actually have a veto on what NASA wants to do? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

nuaetius · Dec 22, 2007

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />Yes, granted everything tests out OK and everybody agrees that it is the right thing to do. S_G says that is not good enough. It must be "certified". My question is "What does that mean?" Does the FAA actually have a veto on what NASA wants to do? <hr /></blockquote> The shuttle does not met the "Man Rating" requirements of the FAA. It's design predates the current requirements, and NASA had the prior requirements waved when it was designed. So the Answer is No.

bobblebob · Dec 22, 2007

I take it then there isnt any data anywhere lying around that shows how solder behaves under cryo conditions?

montmein69 · Dec 22, 2007

In the case they decide to open the tank in its vertical position on the pad and try to access to the internal part of the connector (either for removing and testing or soldering) : Do we know the distance between the lower part of the LH2 tank (where is the manhole) and the internal part of the connector ? Is the access easy for a technician or does it need a platform or a ladder inside the tank ? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Dec 22, 2007

That's what I would think. The same problem that affects the connectors (ice developing in the connection) could possibly apply to a soldered joint as well. It shouldn't, but until you test, you don't know. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Dec 22, 2007

I'm sorry if I am being slow here, but would the Liquid Hydrogen not cause any soldering to shrink & crack? I am sure it is not that simple??? Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

bobblebob · Dec 22, 2007

Im guessing no one really knows yet until they test. I assume aswell that different metals can be used to solder with that could have different effects?

MeteorWayne · Dec 22, 2007

Andrew and bbbb: Exactly my point <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

bobblebob · Dec 22, 2007

Wonder how Dan Tani and his family feel during all of this. First he thought he was going to be home for Christmas, then he might be home for Christmas depending how the ECO sensors behave on launch attempt #2, and now he wont be home for some time yet

3488 · Dec 22, 2007

Hi Bobblebob, I would have thought that Dan Tani will be thinking of his late Mother. Remember he will be bereaved. When he does get back, that realisation is going to hit him hard, so perhaps at the moment he is better off remaining on the ISS. What an absolute horrendous thing to happen. Hi MeteorWayne, do you really think the sensor situation is really that simple? It looks like another solder will have to be developed. Have NASA not used the same stuff since STS-1 Columbia in April 1981?????? They've had 26 years to get this right. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

bobblebob · Dec 22, 2007

I did not know about his mother. Sorry to hear that, when did that happen <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> Edit: Just found the thread on page 2

Testing · Dec 23, 2007

The connector in question is a bulkhead connector. The wires to be spliced will be inside the tank so not subjected to atmospheric conditions, only cryo. I believe a hybrid splice where each of two wires are overlapped and wrappped with a single strand and soldered will qualify. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

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