STS-122 (1E) Updates

[rainergerhards]

Launch date has now been moved off Jan, 10th. Maybe early Feb, but details are to be set.<br /><br />Rainer

 

[rainergerhards]

Hi all,<br /><br />not here, but in a lot of forums there is discussion "why NASA spend that unnecessary time on analysis, where it is so clear what to do" <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> I have become quited tired about that and tried to use an analogy to describe why the troubleshooting is important. Of course, not being from the field, there is always chance of error. So I would appreciate if you knowledgable folks over here could have a quick look and tell me where I screwed up <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />The link is:<br /><br />http://spacelaunch.gerhards.net/2007/12/atlantis-troubleshooting-continues.html<br /><br />Thanks a lot,<br />Rainer

 

[billslugg]

rainer<br />Welcome to SDC!<br />Why do you suppose that they did not use three pins for each signal? They have 37 pins and 11 signals. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[rainergerhards]

Hi Shuttle-Guy,<br /><br />"Note that the troubleshooting on the ET also involves loading the ET with 1,400,000 pounds of liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen since the problem only occurs under cryogenic conditions. This means that the connector that was removed from the ET and sent to MSFC be exposed to liquid hydrogen as well to find the root of the problem."<br /><br />That is very interesting. I was of the thought that MSFC will not do any further of these tests but rather look at the connector from a materials and workmanship point of view. I thought the look for micro cracks, non-solid connections and the like. Will they actually put it under cryo conditions again?<br /><br />Rainer

 

[rainergerhards]

"Why do you suppose that they did not use three pins for each signal? They have 37 pins and 11 signals. "<br /><br />Hi Bill, as of my understanding, the other pins are used by other signals. The drawings currently available on the Internet just do not show the full pin assignment.<br /><br />And in any case: why not three? Do you mean four? Because two are required for each circuit, so if you'd like to have full redundancy, you'd need four. Or I am missing something?<br /><br />Rainer

 

[billslugg]

Each signal does not necessarily require two directional travel through the plug. With 37 pins, you could have 37 independent signals, all returning jointly through ground. So, with only 11 signals, I could have 3 pins per signal. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Multiple grounds would add redundency for all signals, but multiple grounds could lead to ground loops.<br /><br />I guess the connector is a standard one that has been approved, so they used it.<br /><br />Connectors are the bane of electronics <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[rainergerhards]

"No, the ECO and 5% sensors are the only functions going thru the connector."<br /><br />I think I've seen a chart with a different pin assignment. It was labeled "305W01 J23 AFT Umbilical Connector". It had all the point sensors (e.g. LH100%+ ran through e to v on that chart). It also had LH ULL temp and press 1 to 4. Pretty all pins used.<br /><br />I am looking at the right one? It is quite confusing, I saw different sketches, most with different pin assignment legends. As of my understanding (which of course is an outsider view) these were all highlighting and talking about the same connector. It would be very good to know if I mixed up things...<br /><br />Rainer

 

[rainergerhards]

Hi,<br /><br />I think I just managed to clear my confusion myself. What I quoted is the connector into the orbiter itself, right?<br /><br />And the feedthrough has just the ECOs and LH5. Other signals join them and are then feed through to the orbiter's after via another connector - the one I quoted. Is that the correct picture?<br /><br />Rainer <br />PS: oops - in 5 minutes is 2008 over here...

 

[halman]

shuttle_guy,<br /><br />This reminds me of my first motorcycle. It would run just fine for a while, and then, all of a sudden, it would start running rough, almost cutting out. I went through everything I could think of, several times, and could not detect a fault. I was on the point of rolling it into a river when something made me check the fuses. I don't know why, because fuses are either good, or they are bad. Or so I thought! One fuse had a hairline break, which would allow current to pass, until a bump, or some other event caused the halves to move apart, and then the engine would run poorly, as an arc would allow current to flow, but not at the correct voltage, or something. I have never seen the like, before or since.<br /><br />Because metal contracts as temperatures go down, it is possible to have excellent conductivity at ambient temperatures, but when tanking has commenced, the metal shrinks away from a connection, and you have an open. Or, a faulty rubber seal, which would allow moisture to condense inside the connector housing, grounding the signal.<br /><br />So, duplicating the failure means duplicating the conditions the failure occurred in.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[rainergerhards]

I have just recompiled the latest KSC image gallery pictures from the feedtrhough connector removal into a picture story:<br /><br />http://spacelaunch.gerhards.net/2008/01/shuttle-feedthrough-connector-removal.html<br /><br />I just wonder about frame 5 - I think the xray is pointing about an arms length *above* the feedthrough connector location. Can someone share some insight on that?<br /><br />Rainer

 

[billslugg]

Rainer<br />It says they were X-raying the cable that went to the connector. That is probably cable way up there. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[bobblebob]

"This fix was used on the Atlas program for the same type of problem"<br /><br />So this is an old problem, and has taken until now to find a more suitable fix for it?

 

[MeteorWayne]

But there was no problem with the existing system on the STS until the last few launches when the ECO anomoly appeared. So until recently there was no reason to introduce another unknown into a working system.<br /><br />For some reason, whatever problem exists has continued and gotten worse. I'll bet they will figure it out after the shuttle program is over. The analysis will take that long. In the meantime, we need to fly.<br />Until then, if this fix works, is verified again, and works for launches, it will do for the time being.<br /><br />As I've previously stated, the action of soldering the connections is not without it's own risks. That configuration has never flown on the STS, so unkowns will remain even after all the testing.<br /><br />That's spaceflight.<br /><br />Wayne <br /><br />Added STS to the first line for clarity <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Thanx, s_g. The PIO office has been quiet lately.<br /><br />The other Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[bobblebob]

Got a week off work planned for Feb and trying to arrange around the shuttle launch. Am i right in thinking if all goes to plan (re eco sensor fix) they will try and launch in the Feb window?<br /><br />What date does the window open and close, and any best guess for launch date? <br /><br />2nd Edit: Listening to the conference they could launch 24th Jan if everything goes perfect. More likely to be 2nd Feb tho but maybe 7th/8th if they do a tanking test.<br /><br />So basically going to be hard to predict <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

 

[bobblebob]

Is a tanking test likely after the fix has been installed? i would of thought they would do one

 

[3488]

Launch on the 24th is not going to happen, given its only three weeks away.<br /><br />Are the sensors being replaced or repaired?<br /><br />I'm a bit thick as to what is actually happening now. Is Atlantis even on the Pad or has <br />she been taken back to the VAB?<br /><br />Sorry, I'm not feeling my very best, hence the dumb questions.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[bobblebob]

yeah shes at the pad. From what i could make of the audio conference they're implementing the fix (after approval) to this ET and eventually the other ET's for future missions. They are doing this before they have chance to fully analyse the dodgy connector, so if something unexpected happens with the analysis they may have to do further work, but they dont expect this<br /><br />Basically its<br /><br />2nd Feb launch if no tanking test<br />8th Feb with a tanking test <br /><br />Edit: Hope you feel better soon. Have you cought this virus that going round the UK at the moment?

 

[3488]

Thanks bobblebob.<br /><br />I was not sure, what was actually happening.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[moonmadness]

I'm actually a little worried now. <br /><br />A late January early February launch?<br /><br />I noticed this from the event calender from the new nasa site a while ago.<br /><br />January 27 Apollo 1 crew lost<br />January 28 Space Shuttle Challenger and crew were lost<br />February 1 Space Shuttle Columbia and crew were lost<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>I'm not a rocket scientist, but I do play one on the TV in my mind.</p> </div>

 

[3488]

Hi MOONMADNESS.<br /><br />I think & hope very much that the close date sets (although very different years) is just<br />a co-incidence, rather than a curse on Manned Spaceflight.<br /><br />Apollo 1. Friday 27th January 1967.<br />Challenger 51L. Tuesday 28th January 1986.<br />Columbia STS 107. Saturday 1st February 2003.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Cheers shuttle_guy.<br /><br />I was finding it difficult to fully understand what was happening.<br /><br />Lets hope this can be sorted soon.<br /><br />Thank you shuttle_guy for your fantastic work at the Cape. I for one really appreciate <br />your efforts & it is wonderful to be able to talk with you on these boards. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Cheers, I am just feeling a bit de-energised & wolly headed at the moment, but <br />its nothing really.<br /><br />I really do enjoy these threads. I maybe do not contribute much to the crewed spaceflight<br />as I have only very limited knowledge, but do look in every time & am learning <br />a great deal all of the time.<br /><br />Cheers, this is very interesting indeed.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[moonmadness]

Jan. 3<br /><br />NASA flight control teams and ground operations teams have been requested to protect for a Jan. 24th launch date for Space Shuttle Atlantis. As work progresses, that date will be modified as required, says John Shannon, deputy manager for the Space Shuttle Program. The schedule depends on test results and modifications to a fuel sensor system connector on the external fuel tank Atlantis will use for launch on its STS-122 mission to the International Space Station. Other launch opportunities could come between Jan. 24th and the first week of February. <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>I'm not a rocket scientist, but I do play one on the TV in my mind.</p> </div>