# The Source Of All Energy (The Source Of All Time)?

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#### agent00seven

I can indeed describe number 1 as infinite decimals piled together. I can also describe 0 as infinite numbers getting subtracted by themselves. But that does not change the value. The value remains same. No matter if there are infinite universes in the multiverse, they are all valued the same, that is, 0.

Everything in existence has a total value of 1. Zero should not be the starting point in any equation that tries to balance all the energy within reality. 'Something from nothing' theories are nonsensical.

There can be no infinite number of multiverses according to the conservation of energy law. That law doesn't reveal how much energy exists, but it does reveal it has always been in existence, has always had a set value, and will always retain that set value, no matter how many complex interactions it has with itself.

#### voidpotentialenergy

VPE,
We all know about "nothing", but "nothing" is not what greets us if we jump off a 20 story building without a "nothing" parachute. We all have to recognize "something".

Cat
The fall doesn't hurt at all. It's the stopping that is a problem
Stopping is all about quanta orbits and running into electrons with your electrons.

Must lower voltage when falling *grin*

David-J-Franks

#### voidpotentialenergy

Everything in existence has a total value of 1. Zero should not be the starting point in any equation that tries to balance all the energy within reality. 'Something from nothing' theories are nonsensical.

There can be no infinite number of multiverses according to the conservation of energy law. That law doesn't reveal how much energy exists, but it does reveal it has always been in existence, has always had a set value, and will always retain that set value, no matter how many complex interactions it has with itself.
How do you explain the BB from nothing then?
0=BB?

IMO fluctuation is just the result of potential energy of void space, fluctuation energy balance= everything else.

Still though Void=Potential energy
PE= fluctuation.
Fluctuation E balance =matter/energy and eventual BB.

One way or another 0 either spawned everything in an orderly manner or A BB started from nothing and nowhere.

Wrapping my brain around the possibility that everything could start from just a fluke on nature that Void space could have potential energy properties took quite a while.

Nothing in the universe lasts forever not even nothing.

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IG2007

#### Catastrophe

##### "Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
IG
"No matter if there are infinite universes in the multiverse, they are all valued the same, that is, 0."

Yes, because they never existed in the first place.

Cat

IG2007

#### Catastrophe

##### "Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
007
The conventional view would be that all energy end up as heat. Unusable particle movement.
No temperature difference so no way of extracting work.

Cat

IG2007

#### IG2007

##### "Don't criticize what you can't understand..."
Everything in existence has a total value of 1. Zero should not be the starting point in any equation that tries to balance all the energy within reality. 'Something from nothing' theories are nonsensical.

There can be no infinite number of multiverses according to the conservation of energy law. That law doesn't reveal how much energy exists, but it does reveal it has always been in existence, has always had a set value, and will always retain that set value, no matter how many complex interactions it has with itself.
IG
"No matter if there are infinite universes in the multiverse, they are all valued the same, that is, 0."

Yes, because they never existed in the first place.

Cat
That is the point, Agent double-o 7, perfectly said by Cat and moreover remember the first law of Thermodynamics. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

Catastrophe

#### voidpotentialenergy

That is the point, Agent double-o 7, perfectly said by Cat and moreover remember the first law of Thermodynamics. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.
I would like to update that law. Energy can neither be created or destroyed in a a universe of fluctuation.
One in the same reason it can't be created or destroyed because fluctuation already has an energy balance.

#### Catastrophe

##### "Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
"Energy can neither be created or destroyed in a a universe of fluctuation.
One in the same reason it can't be created or destroyed because fluctuation already has an energy balance."

Can you please provide published references to describe this?

Cat

#### voidpotentialenergy

"Energy can neither be created or destroyed in a a universe of fluctuation.
One in the same reason it can't be created or destroyed because fluctuation already has an energy balance."

Can you please provide published references to describe this?

Cat
Wish i could but I'm the only one that has put 2 and 2 together to come up with the reason energy can't be created or destroyed is the balance act of fluctuation.

IMO if you tried to create new energy fluctuation will remove it, and if you destroy energy fluctuation will create it.

Search for (creating nothing) for an insight on what happens when you create nothing for an ahh ha moment.
Wish i had the url to it.

#### Catastrophe

##### "Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
OK, I Googled creating nothing and I got:
"Is it possible to create nothing? - Physics Stack Exchange
https://physics.stackexchange.com › questions › is-it-po...

You need to be careful to tell the difference between "nothing" and "empty space", as discussed at length in my answer here. That is, I believe you are asking ..."

Imagining an empty cube getting larger is not creating anything.
It is just imagining a space. Imagining a 100 foot tiger shaped dragon breathing germs is not creating anything either.

"Empty space is simply what we get when the quantum fields that make up our World are all in their ground state."

But you are not creating empty space just by imagining a cube expanding.

Cat

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IG2007

#### voidpotentialenergy

OK, I Googled creating nothing and I got:
"Is it possible to create nothing? - Physics Stack Exchange
https://physics.stackexchange.com › questions › is-it-po...

You need to be careful to tell the difference between "nothing" and "empty space", as discussed at length in my answer here. That is, I believe you are asking ..."

Imagining an empty cube getting larger is not creating anything.
It is just imagining a space. Imagining a 100 foot tiger shaped dragon breathing germs is not creating anything either.

"Empty space is simply what we get when the quantum fields that make up our World are all in their ground state."

But you are not creating empty space just by imagining a cube expanding.

Cat
I will see if i can hunt out the paper about scientist creating a void space and what it did.

#### Catastrophe

##### "Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
I will see if i can hunt out the paper about scientist creating a void space and what it did.

Thank you. That would be appreciated. Cat

#### Catastrophe

##### "Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
How can "you" empty a space of all particles and radiation? Isn't that counting the angels on the head of a pin?

Cat

#### Atlan0001

Post #38. And if you translate what he says about "nothingness" being somethingness -- how about "everythingness" at a non-relative primordial "particle" level, even singularity / string vibration level.... (the infinite Universe (Big Crunch Vortex (Big Hole Vacuum ( Big Mirror Mirroring to infinity of.....))))?

If you pay attention to what "Chaos Theory" theorizes, chaos is always half and half. Order has and is a form of disorder. Disorder has and is a form of order. The grainy (asymmetrical) and the smooth (symmetrical) overlay and inlay. We do not exist due to symmetrical smoothness (order). We exist due to asymmetrical graininess (disorder), the asymmetry of energy in finite lumpiness, not the symmetry of entropy in infinite flatness (the infinite Universe (the energyless, timeless, source)). To Chaos Theory the two are not cause and effect, they are 'superposition correlative'; they co-exist.

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#### voidpotentialenergy

How can "you" empty a space of all particles and radiation? Isn't that counting the angels on the head of a pin?

Cat
Or could be actual (nothing) has properties of potential energy that makes everything.
Concept of nothing in the universe isn't emptying space of all that exists since space itself is a wash of crazy temp activity (fluctuation)

I just cant figure out why someone hasn't put a tag on that temp particle creation of fluctuation as dark energy/matter.
For sure fluctuation is creating temp gravity, temp matter and temp energy all the time so could dark energy and dark matter be that simple and the solution to why galaxies don't fly apart just temp gravity?

#### voidpotentialenergy

Post #38. And if you translate what he says about "nothingness" being somethingness -- how about "everythingness" at a non-relative primordial "particle" level, even singularity / string vibration level.... (the infinite Universe (Big Crunch Vortex (Big Hole Vacuum ( Big Mirror Mirroring to infinity of.....))))?

If you pay attention to what "Chaos Theory" theorizes, chaos is always half and half. Order has and is a form of disorder. Disorder has and is a form of order. The grainy (asymmetrical) and the smooth (symmetrical) overlay and inlay. We do not exist due to symmetrical smoothness (order). We exist due to asymmetrical graininess (disorder), the asymmetry of energy in finite lumpiness, not the symmetry of entropy in infinite flatness (the infinite Universe (the energyless, timeless, source)). To Chaos Theory the two are not cause and effect, they are correlative; they co-exist.
Yep when you think that nothing can become everything it's humbling to think no reason exists for it all and no border to the universe/s of forever.

Kirk would be so upset about the Final Frontier not existing

#### Atlan0001

Yep when you think that nothing can become everything it's humbling to think no reason exists for it all and no border to the universe/s of forever.

Kirk would be so upset about the Final Frontier not existing
Not only does the "Final Frontier" exist, it exists to an infinity of offset overlapping frontier universes going away into a distant sustaining horizon ('0') that can never be caught up to. Something Kirk would exalt to the heavens.

#### Atlan0001

I write of source, the "infinite Universe" (U) ('1'). But there is a built in catalyst with and integral to it as source, courtesy of its own very special dimensionality of the Big Mirror Mirroring; the "infinite Universe" (U) ('-1').

(Herein; "catalyst": An agent that provokes... action.)

It's odd, everyone here seems to think of the one ('-1') as a simple subtraction from the other ('1') rather than the two being a mirror opposed ever continuing 'bracing' (('1') ('-1')) of self-mirroring infinity to a net '0' with a remainder of an infinity of.... Which in no way means any part of it ceases to exist ever via that cataclysmic 'Big Cancellation' of infinite to.... They do it without any coming together because they only mirror, and mirror reverse, but the effect between them, the effect of (+) (-), as infinites still exists because it can't be any other way.

(Herein: "brace" ("bracing"): Something that arouses energy.)

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#### Catastrophe

##### "Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
VPE nothing = nothing = nothing.

nothing

pronoun
not anything; no single thing.
Similar:
not a thing
not a single thing
not anything
nothing at all
nil
zero
nowt
zilch
nix
zip
nought
naught

INFORMAL
1. having no prospect of progress; of no value.
"he had a series of nothing jobs"

1. not at all.
"a man who cared nothing for her"

Cat

David-J-Franks

#### voidpotentialenergy

Not only does the "Final Frontier" exist, it exists to an infinity of offset overlapping frontier universes going away into a distant sustaining horizon ('0') that can never be caught up to. Something Kirk would exalt to the heavens.
If infinity exists then is forever a frontier?
Or if forever exists as infinite BB areas and you cant leave one does the final frontier exist?

Catastrophe

#### voidpotentialenergy

VPE nothing = nothing = nothing.

nothing

pronoun
not anything; no single thing.
Similar:
not a thing
not a single thing
not anything
nothing at all
nil
zero
nowt
zilch
nix
zip
nought
naught

INFORMAL
1. having no prospect of progress; of no value.
"he had a series of nothing jobs"

1. not at all.
"a man who cared nothing for her"

Cat
Yep could be Nothing is just that, Nothing.
Or could be the reason for everything is just a property of Nothing occupying an area.

One way or another everything started from nothing so what is the easiest solution to nothing starting everything?

If we think of classic BB theory it's expanding into nothing from nothing/nowhere.
We just need a mechanism for this to happen and not just the fact that it is happening.

#### Catastrophe

##### "Science begets knowledge, opinion ignorance.
VPE, I think we have seen elsewhere what happens when widely different interpretations of language are current. One does not know what the next person really means. This is a most unsatisfactory state of affairs.

Nothing = nothing. Nothing is not what some people might half think is some kind of nothing half filled with some peculiar variant of half something.

It underlines the importance of General Semantics.

Cat

#### voidpotentialenergy

VPE, I think we have seen elsewhere what happens when widely different interpretations of language are current. One does not know what the next person really means. This is a most unsatisfactory state of affairs.

Nothing = nothing. Nothing is not what some people might half think is some kind of nothing half filled with some peculiar variant of half something.

It underlines the importance of General Semantics.

Cat
Yep that's why i use the term Void space to move away from the nothing in space idea and move to the void or no space atall.

#### voidpotentialenergy

Well observable universe is just that, all we can ever experience no matter what tech happens.
We are stuck in some small part of this BB bubble never to see what is beyond and as matter beings we never will since faster than C would turn is into radiation unless a different way to travel is discovered that bypasses physics.

At best we have a shrinking frontier of what can possibly be visited with any tech.
If the BB truly is all that exists then the start of it was infinite speed since it violated C and that can never be reached even at infinite speed.

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