The universe....What was there before it was created?

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kmarinas86

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<s>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark<br /><br />I find the behavior of quarks peculiar. The way they behave is very complex and may be indicative of universes.</s><br /><br />http://particleadventure.org/particleadventure/frameless/quarks_gluons.html<br /><br />But let me change the definition. I think the <i>gluons</i> emitted from quarks are the galaxies consisting of tiny universes. This "emission from a quark" can be thought of as a tiny big bang (or big expansion).
 
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mrphyslaw35

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Its not possible to answer this question. Its outside of the limits of our imagination I'm sure. Compare an ant to a dog. A dog's brain is designed to understand more just as our minds are designed to understand more than a dog's. I could give my dog an eternity to build a rocket and she'll never accomplish it because it's just beyond her. Maybe if we change our genes and make new super brains but even still I think there will eventually be a limit on how far intelligence can go. Maybe something thats higher than intelligence but already thats beyond anything I can think up. Also we understand everything we've come to understand based on the laws of the natural universe we've observed. Outside of the universe these laws may not even exist so it would be absolutely impossible for anything that was created by these laws to understand anything outside of it. You can see it in this thread with no one being able to figure out how could there have been a moment when time didnt exist, or how could something come out of nothing, or who created the thing that created the thing that created the thing that created us. We exist in a universe with rules like time, distance, cause and effect, etc., so we just cant understand what it would be like if even only one of these rules were missing.
 
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neutron_star69

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well like i have said before, we dont know for sure what is true about other universes and black holes and everything, but possibly we just try and make things up and imagine what could be possible to fullfill our hopes.
 
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solrfusion

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as einstien says e mc2 whats left pure energy--oh oh ohohoh oh oh oh ohohoh
 
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confused1

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i believe that the reason why so many of the these questions remain unanswered is because humans cannot yet grasp the concept of infinite completely...<br />My theory is that the universe has been around for an infinite amount of time, as well as it will be around for an infinite amount of time.
 
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dark_energy

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If the universe has been amount for an infinite around the time, then all the stars would've burnt out an infinite period of time ago. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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kmarinas86

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<font color="yellow">If the universe has been amount for an infinite around the time, then all the stars would've burnt out an infinite period of time ago.</font><br /><br />If you have recycling of matter, then this is not the case, and you would have the desired amounts of light elements. This requires an enormous about of matter to be transformed into massless electromagnetic waves. This happens in events called gamma ray bursts. The cosmic background radiation could be the result of gamma rays resulting from the same kind of process, except by a swarm of billions of black holes. In fact, having clusters of black holes with the mass of trillions of galaxies can cause enough gravitational redshift to explain the redshift of the universe. This would be "active-state" universe, which must be infinite, because for everything the keep moving, the universe must be infinite in space. So then, where do the light elements come from? First, all you really need for the first element is a proton, which, by itself, is positively charged hydrogen. Once you got that, you can get back to the basic elements. Free electrons could be taken by this hydrogen ion to start the process all over again. I don't know all the steps required for the recycling of matter quite frankly.<br /><br />I'd imagine that where we are, mass is being turned into light which is ejected, and at the edge of our visible universe, that light is being turned into mass, which is ejected (aka. big bang). Then that mass creeps up from those places to where we are, in a constant transformation. That would make the appearance of big galaxies at the edge of our observable horizon less mysterious.<br /><br />http://academia.wikicities.com/wiki/Cyclic_Multiverse_Theory
 
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Anonymous

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I think that is what links people to God. And that is what dictates His existence. As said "Creator of Universe." according to myths.<br />I know this is not Technical.<br />But I feel thr couldnot be a technical and atleast "proved" answer!<br />A theory isn't a proof. Not even the Big Bang.<br />Who knows.<br />Hope someone could explain it some day! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font size="2"><p align="center"><br /><img id="a9529085-d63d-481e-9277-832ea5d58917" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/9/2/a9529085-d63d-481e-9277-832ea5d58917.Large.gif" alt="blog post photo" /><br /><font color="#339966">Oops! this is my alien friend.</font></p><p align="center"><font color="#ff6600">╬→Ť╠╣є ’ M€ ’<br />╬→ Ðôŵņ2Ëãřŧĥ ๑<br />╬→ ЙДm€ :Varsha<br /></font></p></font></strong> </div>
 
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metalmind

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HI NEUTRON_STAR6, I HAVE AN IDEA. MAYBE THERE WAS SOMETHING THERE, AND IT TOOK AWHILE FOR EVERYTHING TO COME TOGETHER TO MAKE THE BIG BANG. PLEASE WRITE BACK, METALMIND
 
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newtonian

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Cherry2 - Well, yes. It is far more scientific to believe our universe was created by God, than to believe our universe began with nothing.<br /><br />Actually, Einstein, as noted by another poster, gave a basic proof that it did not start from nothing - to wit:<br /><br />e=mc^2.<br /><br />Note no zero or nothing in this formula!<br /><br />Genesis 1:1 states simply that God created the heavens and earth in the (a - the definite article is absent in Hebrew) beginning.<br /><br />John 4:24 states God is a spirit, and the Greek (pneuma) and Hebrew (ruahh) words for spirit are defined as "invisible active force," compare invisible energy.<br /><br />Thus the belief that our universe began with energy, which is indicated by scientific study, is consistent with Biblical astronomy and inconsistent with the somewhat religious belief in a miracle of creation of our universe from nothing.<br /><br />Belief in God as the Creator of our universe vs. belief our universe was created from nothing is also tipped in favor of Creation by considering the scientifically observed principle of cause and effect.<br /><br />Coming from nothing denies cause and effect by stating nothing as the cause.<br /><br />Believing in Jehovah, whose name is defined as "He causes to be" (from the Hebrew verb root for 'to be' in the causative sense), is in harmony with the scientific principle of cause and effect.<br /><br />Biblical astronomy specifies a first cause, quite in contrast with nothing as the cause.<br /><br />Now, everyone is entitled to believe as they wish, of course.<br /><br />But to me the belief in a Creator is far more scientifically tenable than the belief our universe came from nothing.
 
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SpeedFreek

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So.... where did this God or Creator come from?<br /><br />To state that creation from nothing is less scientific than a God who came from nothing or was always there is a fallacy. As usual. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000">_______________________________________________<br /></font><font size="2"><em>SpeedFreek</em></font> </p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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You know I supported you in other threads, but you are pressing very close to the edge, IMHO.<br /><br />MW <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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kyle_baron

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<font color="yellow"><br />So.... where did this God or Creator come from?</font><br /><br />Because God will not give us any indication of where he came from, and we will never know the answer, then if someone knew the answer to that question (Jesus), then they would be God. You should have paid more attention on my thread of an eternal God. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>
 
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kyle_baron

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<font color="yellow"><br />You know I supported you in other threads, but you are pressing very close to the edge, IMHO. </font><br /><br />So what? The only problem is , we end up going in circles. And by the way, edge of what?<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>
 
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SpeedFreek

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Very scientific.<br /><br />And of course, if the Universe will never give us any indication of where it came from, and we will never know the answer, then if someone knew the answer to that question they would have to be the universe itself.<br /><br />No God required. <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000">_______________________________________________<br /></font><font size="2"><em>SpeedFreek</em></font> </p> </div>
 
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kyle_baron

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I see an endless loop forming. So I have no further comments. <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>
 
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alokmohan

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Spce and time started together as spacetime.Nothing before universe was born,time was not formed till the time.
 
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weeman

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<p>I agree with what you're saying Alok. It is possible that there was no time before the Universe existed. Although this is the very argument of this thread. Humans have a hard time trying to grasp "nothing". If there was no Universe, and there was no time, what could have been here? How could there have been nothing?<br /><br />Recent theories in Quantum Mechanics suggest that total void is not possible. In situations where we think there might be total void, there might actually be Quantum Foam. Quantum Foam is a theoretical situation where matter is created, rather than having total void. In one of Stephen Hawking's books, "A Bried History if Time" or "Quest for a Theory of Everything", Hawking describes a situation that involves void. It is a theory for the creation of blackholes. Hawking states that when a massive star explodes, it creates void at the center of the explosion. All matter around this void rushes in to fill in the space at such a high velocity that it leads to the collapse of the star. Very wild stuff However, the idea of Quantum Foam might negate this theory as a possibility. <br /><br />If the Universe and time didn't exist in the beginning, then Quantum Foam couldn't have existed either, right? if Quantum Mechanics are a form of physics, or mathematics, then there shouldn't have been Quantum Anything before the Universe existed. If time and space did not exist, then math or physics did not exist. <br /><br />So, we might then conclude that there had to have been total void nothingness before the Universe existed. But how did anything, any matter, or any time come out of this nothingness? <br /><br />This question might be where a God comes into play. Even if the Universe didn't exist, some thing, some being, in some form or some dimension, placed it all here. For what purpose? Maybe just so this certain God could see what it could create. Or maybe to show off for his/her boyfriend/girlfriend</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Techies: We do it in the dark. </font></strong></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>"Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.</strong><strong>" -Albert Einstein </strong></font></p> </div>
 
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brittany07

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The belief in God is based on faith. With faith, people just believe God was always around and he has no beginning or end. Nothing created God, because the thing that created God would had to have been created, etc..... I don't think that this belief is scientific. It is an alternate theory. People choose for themselves what to believe. But since each argument has its unanswered questions, this debate will never end.
 
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SpeedFreek

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Of course belief in God is based on faith. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />I was replying to Newtonian, who stated<br /><br />"But to me the belief in a Creator is far more scientifically tenable than the belief our universe came from nothing."<br /><br />I was questioning how scientific it is to believe in a Creator.<br /><br />And the answer is - it isn't. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000">_______________________________________________<br /></font><font size="2"><em>SpeedFreek</em></font> </p> </div>
 
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kyle_baron

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<font color="yellow"><br />The belief in God is based on faith. With faith, people just believe God was always around and he has no beginning or end. </font><br /><br />Interesting choice of words that you used. Revelation 22:12, Jesus said: Behold, I am comming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. Rev. 22:13, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Begining and the End. Interesting coincidence, don't you think? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>
 
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SpeedFreek

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I'm not sure I understand what the coincidence is here?<br /><br />Brittany said that people believe god was always around and has no beginning or end.<br /><br />The bible states that Jesus said he was the alpha and the omega, the first and last, the beginning and the end.<br /><br />Whats the coincidence? That people who believe in god have read the bible? That science uses omega to measure whether the universe will continue to expand or not?<br /><br />What's your point? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000">_______________________________________________<br /></font><font size="2"><em>SpeedFreek</em></font> </p> </div>
 
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kyle_baron

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<font color="yellow"><br />I'm not sure I understand what the coincidence is here? <br /><br />Brittany said that people believe god was always around and has no beginning or end. <br /><br />The bible states that Jesus said he was the alpha and the omega, the first and last, the beginning and the end. <br /><br />Whats the coincidence? What's your point? </font><br /><br />Hi Speedfreek. Apparently everything has to be black and white in your universe. Too bad, that reality is sometimes grey, and that you can't deal with that fact. If I have to explain the coincidence to you, then forget about it! That's my point! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>
 
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