The US government is holding a historic UFO hearing this week. Here's how to watch

[Atlan0001]

Yeah, sorta. There could be hidden dimensions we don't know about and cannot see. Anyone claiming them as the explanation for their pet theory could never be proven wrong. This is a great deal for the theorist.

Hmmm!

New Proof Shows That ‘Expander’ Graphs Synchronize | Quanta Magazine

The proof establishes new conditions that cause connected oscillators to sway in sync.

www.quantamagazine.org

Hmmm!

 

[billslugg]

Never heard of expander graphs before. Very interesting.

 

[Paragon_Reason]

Thank you to the brave souls reporting at todays hearing. Please watch if you have not done so already.
Misdirection revealed. The crack in the glass ceiling has allowed the truth to start seeping through.
Spacecrafts with advanced technology beyond earth's capability have been observed numerous times. As they said at the hearing. History has been made today. This is confirmation that intelligent lifeforms are observing us. Only 5% of those observing the sightings report them.

I respectfully disagree. That was a perfect opportunity under immunity to disclose anything they knew.... And they chose not to sighting nda concerns yet they are immune and have free reign to whistleblow on any illegal programs or activities. Presented No data, Names, proof of any kind, and gave no detail. Just generic stories we've all heard ad nauseam.
They talk wanting Disclosure but disclose nothing.
They call themselves whistleblowers yet do not blow the whistle.
But they will for sure ask for gov dollars for their companies.
Ufology took a step back, and not one millimeter was moved as far as u.s. citizen knowledge of the corruption, unacknowledged programs, or hidden Technology.

 

[Robotron]

Yeah, sorta. There could be hidden dimensions we don't know about and cannot see. Anyone claiming them as the explanation for their pet theory could never be proven wrong. This is a great deal for the theorist.

So you must think the "dark matter" and "dark energy" and the Oort Cloud are shams since they can't be detected and/or have never been observed. Or the "big bang," or black holes, both of which are logical impossibilities. Correct? Or are you fine with inferring their reality indirectly? Defense of pet theories is what modern astronomers do best. That, and fine tuning their computer simulations to incorporate a continual stream of unpredicted observations that punch holes in their models. But that's another topic.

Anyone who actually watches the hearing and listens to Grusch, in particular, describe in great detail the knowledge he has attained after four years of interviewing people, many of them first-hand witnesses, will likely conclude that congress is perfectly correct to pursue this issue with vigor. Grusch says he can provide all the evidence they need to corroborate his claims, but it has to be done in SCIFs due to its top secret nature. Unless you have access to those secret meetings, you're not gonna get that alien candy wrapper you need.

 

[Robotron]

I respectfully disagree. That was a perfect opportunity under immunity to disclose anything they knew.... And they chose not to sighting nda concerns yet they are immune and have free reign to whistleblow on any illegal programs or activities. Presented No data, Names, proof of any kind, and gave no detail. Just generic stories we've all heard ad nauseam.
They talk wanting Disclosure but disclose nothing.
They call themselves whistleblowers yet do not blow the whistle.
But they will for sure ask for gov dollars for their companies.
Ufology took a step back, and not one millimeter was moved as far as u.s. citizen knowledge of the corruption, unacknowledged programs, or hidden Technology.

I was skeptical going into the hearing. However, Grusch in particular had a shocking amount of candor. He basically said he had the names of the perpetrators both in government and the corporate world. He has locations and a significant number of first-hand witnesses. The other witnesses said point-blank that the objects they encountered did things that are impossible by today's technological standards. They described the craft ("black cubes in transparent spheres" and a red cube a FOOTBALL FIELD WIDE) as something that no pilot would mistake conventional aircraft or atmospheric phenomena for. These are huge admissions and data rich statements compared anything we've seen in prior briefings. There's cause for hope.

On the other hand, if you're familiar with Carol Rosin's testimony about the late "father of modern rocketry," Wernher Von Braun--who said that there is a decades-long program to funnel more trillions in the military-industrial complex by faking an alien invasion--the constant characterization of UFOs/UAPs as a threat to national security is a cause for alarm. It's likely that congress is finally getting tough on UFOs because it's time to fulfill that last step in the sequence. That's why I don't trust Grusch or anyone else who's sanctioned by the Pentagon or any other agency inhabiting the dark web of the intelligence apparatus. Their job, after all, is deception and keeping one step ahead of threats to their supremacy.

 

[billslugg]

So you must think the "dark matter" and "dark energy" and the Oort Cloud are shams since they can't be detected and/or have never been observed. Or the "big bang," or black holes, both of which are logical impossibilities. Correct? Or are you fine with inferring their reality indirectly? Defense of pet theories is what modern astronomers do best. That, and fine tuning their computer simulations to incorporate a continual stream of unpredicted observations that punch holes in their models. But that's another topic.

Anyone who actually watches the hearing and listens to Grusch, in particular, describe in great detail the knowledge he has attained after four years of interviewing people, many of them first-hand witnesses, will likely conclude that congress is perfectly correct to pursue this issue with vigor. Grusch says he can provide all the evidence they need to corroborate his claims, but it has to be done in SCIFs due to its top secret nature. Unless you have access to those secret meetings, you're not gonna get that alien candy wrapper you need.

I believe in Dark Matter, Dark Energy, Oort Cloud because the data which infers their existance has been replicated by a disinterested third party, peer reviewed and published in a reputable journal. Your witness based testimony has none of that.

I have no problem pursuing ET with vigor.

I am not privy to Top Secret information, therefore I will not get my candy wrapper and you will not get my agreement that ET has been here.

 

[Robotron]

I believe in Dark Matter, Dark Energy, Oort Cloud because the data which infers their existance has been replicated by a disinterested third party, peer reviewed and published in a reputable journal. Your witness based testimony has none of that.

There is no observational evidence of any of those things. All of them are inferred from indirect evidence, much of which is only in the minds of humans (and their computers). That's my point. We infer models based on educated guesses.

The only reasonable interpretation of the testimony we heard in the recent hearing, which corroborates the same information given by over 600 witnesses in the Disclosure Project, is that UFOs are a non-trivial phenomenon and that there is stuff flying around up there that defies known laws of physics. Once again, I don't know why you're arguing about something you didn't bother to watch. To most of us, that is a dead giveaway that we're dealing with a closed mind.

In any case, I finally watched the entire hearing and it is mind boggling. The worrisome thing is that the narrative developing from it is that these objects are a threat to national security. There will now be a huge push to shovel more trillions to the military-industrial complex to protect us from these threats. I believe it will be a farce. If these things wanted to hurt us they would've destroyed us decades or centuries ago. Don't buy it.

I have no problem pursuing ET with vigor.

But only if they're many light years away, right?

SETI is a total waste of time. Even if intelligent signals are detected, the civilization that produced them is either long extinct or has moved on. Why are we dumping so much money into tracking the remnants of dead alien civilizations when they're already here? We already know the answer: it's the "safe" thing to do. Radio signals from Zeta Reticuli are much less threatening to the scientific mind compared to super intelligent beings flitting about in our atmosphere. Scientists need to grow a pair and face the fact that humans are not on the top rung of the cosmic ladder.

 

[billslugg]

You act as if there was any "thing" in the hearings that might convince me that ET is here. My criteria for belief that an ET is here, is laser ablation mass spectrometry. That criteria specifically excludes "flapping gums". Why is your mind so closed to that high of a standard? Afraid you can't meet it?

If laser ablation mass spectrometry results are discussed in the hearings, let me know and I'll tune in so I can get the references to the scientific journals they were published in. Otherwise no. Not interested in the slightest.
|
BTW - That said, there is a component to these hearings that is essential to national security. I believe we have many Chinese drones that follow our ships, balloons that fly over us, whatever. There needs to be a complete investigation in this area, which interests me very much.

 

[Atlan0001]

.... Scientists need to grow a pair and face the fact that humans are not on the top rung of the cosmic ladder.

Certainly we are among the top rung of the ladder, well many of us are, for beng complex and diverse various minded, spatial minded creatures all in one package. Packing the entirety of the pyramid all in one apex basket is top rung. We are 9-billion humans. Multiply that by an {energetic] 2-million-fold average per every man, woman, and child living, and you have Mankind after 2-million years of evolution in energy and complexity. Top rung all the way and a top-rung child now of the outland frontier needing birth for continuance or else...!

 

[billslugg]

I know I'm at the top rung of the ladder because my wife tells me I'm "special".

 

[Robotron]

You act as if there was any "thing" in the hearings that might convince me that ET is here. My criteria for belief that an ET is here, is laser ablation mass spectrometry. That criteria specifically excludes "flapping gums". Why is your mind so closed to that high of a standard? Afraid you can't meet it?

It's not my job to convince you of anything. Create whatever standards and ignore whatever evidence you like. It doesn't matter to me. Others can check out the hearing.

Given the obvious direction the UAP discussion is going (that aliens are a threat to national security), I'd also suggest that people watch Carol Rosin's testimony about the father of modern rocketry, Wernher Von Braun, a German scientist recruited by NASA in Operation Paperclip. Von Braun was very clear about what is supposed to happen next: the "alien threat" will be used as a cosmic 9/11 to get taxpayers to send more trillions of dollars to the military-industrial complex in order to protect us from this alleged threat. (

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnO_Er-JKUE
)

I'm of the mind that, if the aliens wanted to do away with humans, they would've done us in centuries ago. So, as the great war president Dwight D. Eisenhower warned: "Beware the military-industrial complex."

 

[Robotron]

Certainly we are among the top rung of the ladder, well many of us are, for beng complex and diverse various minded, spatial minded creatures all in one package. Packing the entirety of the pyramid all in one apex basket is top rung. We are 9-billion humans. Multiply that by an {energetic] 2-million-fold average per every man, woman, and child living, and you have Mankind after 2-million years of evolution in energy and complexity. Top rung all the way and a top-rung child now of the outland frontier needing birth for continuance or else...!

It depends on the criteria, of course. The fact that humans can't go a millisecond without bombing each other suggests we've barely evolved beyond "monkey." With my apologies to the actual monkeys out there.

In the hearing all three of the witnesses admitted our most advanced jet fighters would have been totally helpless if the objects they encountered were hostile.

And imagine the inferiority complex scientists will have when a million-years-advanced alien race (or more than one) shows up.

All I know is it's gonna be fun.

 

[billslugg]

"It's not my job to convince you of anything." - Robotron

We already went through this. Anyone who makes an assertion has the burden of proof. If you want me to believe in ET visitation then you must provide proof.
I will then evaluate it. So far, nothing convincing. Everything I have ever seen could have been faked or could be due to mis-identification.

If I make an assertion that there is no ET visitation then I have the burden of proof. However, since no one can ever prove a negative, I would be wasting my time thus I don't try. It is my duty, however, to point out fallacies in the information provided me.

 

[Atlan0001]

It depends on the criteria, of course. The fact that humans can't go a millisecond without bombing each other suggests we've barely evolved beyond "monkey." With my apologies to the actual monkeys out there.

In the hearing all three of the witnesses admitted our most advanced jet fighters would have been totally helpless if the objects they encountered were hostile.

And imagine the inferiority complex scientists will have when a million-years-advanced alien race (or more than one) shows up.

All I know is it's gonna be fun.

Your concept of "advanced" species is the amoeba. The advanced civilization, "Utopia" perfect.

We are a 2 to 3 million year, 3 to 4 billion, year, whatever, advanced in evolution species. Evolution is a branching tree of energies and complexities from root and trunk branches, an expanding always self-similar pyramid of life, no 1-dimensionally linear spike and arrow. What you dream of evolution is a 1-dimensionlly straight arrow to mass extinction rather than diverse species prosperity and survival testing abilities and capabilities. Just as soon as a species spikes and can't meet and survive an enormity of varying testing surprises, by being as enormously internally complex and chaotic as the whole pyramid of life it is itself an apex pyramid of, it's gone the way of the "safe" dodo bird.

The complex and chaotic species humans (plural), its complex and chaotic civilizations (plural), have always been completely dependent on the physic of space . . . space frontier . . . the open and opening system . . . for things called "room" and "time." Close the system in in turning (in-turning: negative entropy), and you close out first the energetically complex pyramidical apex species then the pyramid of life it is the fractal representation of.

If we ever break out to the universe at large, we will find a frontier universe and civilizations looking far more like "Star Wars" than "E. T." We won't find an "E. T."-like species ruling overall that won't be, amoeba-like, ultimately preparing us and the rest of Earthlife for slave and food sources. Since we've had a governmental total quality management and control Iron Curtain between us and break out for the last fifty years, we could be in that situation already. Utopia is the ultimate in Dystopia.

 

[Robotron]

"It's not my job to convince you of anything." - Robotron

We already went through this. Anyone who makes an assertion has the burden of proof. If you want me to believe in ET visitation then you must provide proof.
I will then evaluate it. So far, nothing convincing. Everything I have ever seen could have been faked or could be due to mis-identification.

If I make an assertion that there is no ET visitation then I have the burden of proof. However, since no one can ever prove a negative, I would be wasting my time thus I don't try. It is my duty, however, to point out fallacies in the information provided me.

I thought I made it clear that I don't care about convincing you. I'll say it again: I don't care what you have concluded after doing no research. You can't even be bothered to watch the hearing. The only reason I ever engage with pseudo-skeptics is to encourage those watching from the sidelines to review the evidence themselves.

But just for giggles, what do you propose these 20 year veterans were *actually* seeing when they had four different pilots report black cubes inside of clear spheres (over eight years!), and a football field sized red cube? The planet Venus? Swamp gas?

There's a huge difference between being a proper skeptic and being a dismissive pseudo-skeptic. The former actively aggregates and analyzes all available evidence. The latter doesn't actually do anything except sit around and demand that impossible-to-meet proof be delivered to him on a silver platter.

 

[Robotron]

Your concept of "advanced" species is the amoeba. The advanced civilization, "Utopia" perfect.

We are a 2 to 3 million year, 3 to 4 billion, year, whatever, advanced in evolution species. Evolution is a branching tree of energies and complexities from root and trunk branches, an expanding always self-similar pyramid of life, no 1-dimensionally linear spike and arrow. What you dream of evolution is a 1-dimensionlly straight arrow to mass extinction rather than diverse species prosperity and survival testing abilities and capabilities. Just as soon as a species spikes and can't meet and survive an enormity of varying testing surprises, by being as enormously internally complex and chaotic as the whole pyramid of life it is itself an apex pyramid of, it's gone the way of the "safe" dodo bird.

The complex and chaotic species humans (plural), its complex and chaotic civilizations (plural), have always been completely dependent on the physic of space . . . space frontier . . . the open and opening system . . . for things called "room" and "time." Close the system in in turning (in-turning: negative entropy), and you close out first the energetically complex pyramidical apex species then the pyramid of life it is the fractal representation of.

If we ever break out to the universe at large, we will find a frontier universe and civilizations looking far more like "Star Wars" than "E. T." We won't find an "E. T."-like species ruling overall that won't be, amoeba-like, ultimately preparing us and the rest of Earthlife for slave and food sources. Since we've had a governmental total quality management and control Iron Curtain between us and break out for the last fifty years, we could be in that situation already. Utopia is the ultimate in Dystopia.

Okay, fine points. My assumption is that the universe is teeming with life and civilizations of all stages. Groups that are here now are probably millions of years advanced compared to humans, who have gone through various stages of evolution over our existence.

 

[billslugg]

I thought I made it clear that I don't care about convincing you.

But just for giggles, what do you propose these 20 year veterans were *actually* seeing when they had four different pilots report black cubes inside of clear spheres (over eight years!), and a football field sized red cube?

We are in agreement then.

Dark cube inside clear sphere is probably a metallized radar retroreflector cube inside a helium balloon. Dark color keep the gas warm for extended flights. This makes it easy to track verh high altitude winds. Knowing the winds can have scientific and strategic value.

Large red cube simply a balloon with wires inside to hold cube shape. Balloons can be any shape.

 

[Atlan0001]

From the evolution of life on Earth, I know how complexity evolves mass-energy, structure, infrastructure, and reach. Tell me how a single cell of life evolves beyond communities and branching divisions of cells. Tell me how the spatial minded evolves beyond space . . . to where, and to what? The frontier minded species beyond frontiers. Those species minded of room, and thus time, beyond lots and lots of room and thus lots and lots of time. A closed systematic species evolving to Utopia evolves to mass extinction (closed systematic Dystopia). It has no room (no increasing room)!!!! Thus, it has no time (no increasing time)!!!!

 

[Robotron]

We are in agreement then.

Dark cube inside clear sphere is probably a metallized radar retroreflector cube inside a helium balloon. Dark color keep the gas warm for extended flights. This makes it easy to track verh high altitude winds. Knowing the winds can have scientific and strategic value.

Large red cube simply a balloon with wires inside to hold cube shape. Balloons can be any shape.

LOL. It must be so easy to be a pseudo-skeptic. You can just make stuff up and pretend to explain things. Never seen a football field sized balloon, but if you say so!

Do you happen to have an image of these alleged helium balloons or 100-yard wide, masterfully engineered wired balloons? Sure would like to see them so I can forward them to the pilots.

 

[billslugg]

LOL. It must be so easy to be a pseudo-skeptic. You can just make stuff up and pretend to explain things. Never seen a football field sized balloon, but if you say so!

Do you happen to have an image of these alleged helium balloons or 100-yard wide, masterfully engineered wired balloons? Sure would like to see them so I can forward them to the pilots.

No, I don't have images of the unknown craft, you are the one with the images.
I am simply answering your question: "what do you propose these 20 year veterans were *actually* seeing"?