Unidentified aerial annoyance: Full disclosure or dubious nonsense?

[Admin]

The coming year will surely see a persistence of debate, discussion and disbelief regarding unidentified anomalous phenomena.

Unidentified aerial annoyance: Full disclosure or dubious nonsense? : Read more

 

[Manix]

The stigma with this subjected has always been unwarranted. Unlike many subjects considered "paranormal" this subject is clearly grounded in science. IF indeed these UAP are otherworldly, again still grounded in science. What I feel drove the stigma back in the day, was religion (specifically Christianity), as followers was taught God made them and them alone. Today (even within religion) people are more readily accepting we are not alone in the Universe. As much as many reporting on the subject would have the average or pedestrian reader on the subject believe, this is a new phenomena and yet it is not. Sure some (even many today) sighting can be chalked down to new secret/ classified projects, but that does not account for cases hundred (even thousands) of years ago; our scientists and engineers might be smart, but unless they've invented a time machine (which would be equally if not more exciting than finding out we was visited by ET's or interdimensional alopers), I have a hard time believing UAPs (the more curious cases) are down to our governments. I also feel human arrogance is something that also prevents us from accepting this. We like to think we're the be all and end all of everything and the smartest thing in the Universe. IF ET's have made it here and that info is disclosed, then we would suddenly become less important in the grand scheme of things and to many this is unacceptable, true or not.

 

[mig75]

Disclosure already happened in the UK : they said ufos exist and surely are buoyant plasmas linked 60% of times with meteors, probably linked with ball lightning too. See Project Condign.
The Pentagon recognized that paranormal phenomena and cryptids appeared commonly during UAP sightings too.
There is an explanation proposed for all this called "electroballs".
They are bilayer bicharge balls of ionized air or plasma formed by static electricity. They are explained here: https://electroballpage.wordpress.com/

 

[billslugg]

Whoever is the first to prove the existence of ET will become the most famous person in the world and will be showered with money and attention like no other. This is why we are skeptical of first person accounts.
Deepfake photos and movies can fool anyone at any time about any thing. This is why we are skeptical of images.
Given a physical object from an ET the proof is trivial. Any large university can subject it to isotopic analysis and prove the case.
Foget about stories, forget about pictures, bring me a matchbook cover or a fingernail clipping.
I don't care to hear another impassioned opinion or sincere belief, a million times nothing is still nothing.

 

[murgatroyd]

These strawman arguments are getting really threadbare ... No, most people who see no reason to take seriously the claim that there is evidence of spacecraft from elsewhere in the universe zipping around in our atmosphere, do NOT maintain that "we're the be all and end all of everything and the smartest thing in the Universe".

You can put the odds of another technological civilization in the universe as high as you wish, a million to one, a billion to one. This has no bearing whatsoever on whether any of the claims stand up to scrutiny. So far, not one of them has.

 

[billslugg]

That's right, murgatroyd, if one has no case the best option is to attack the motives of the critics.

 

[MiddlePillar]

I heard Prof Kaku make a good point. The reports that are coming from pilots, astronauts, hard data collections, & other professional observers change the face of the conversation. The new reporting inclusion in the latest defense budget will allow a process for previous military personnel to get out from under their military non-disclosures and speak freely.

 

[billslugg]

The value of professional pilot and military pilot accounts is to stimulate further investigation. No amount of professional accounts can prove the case for ET. Only a physical piece of one can do that.

 

[Dave]

Yes the stigma is still there. Looking forward to the series by National Geographic.
There will always be 'those people" who say, 'intelligent lifeforms in our galaxy cannot possibly exist.' I invite all of those people, to look in the mirror as they say it.
What is the joke again? "Take me to your leader." The funny thing is, we are the joke. The human race has no leader. It just goes to show how socially backward we truly are.
Simply put. another species is observing us and they do not wish to have their presence known period. They have the technology to do so.
And what is it, that they observe?
What all humans seem to be really good at truly, is making war amongst ourselves. If you are an advanced race, you would not contact a species as primitive as we are. From their point of view, we just kill one another. We are just savages. Do you think they would see us as friendly?

Perhaps one day as a race we will be as one. Only time will tell.

 

[murgatroyd]

There will always be 'those people" who say, 'intelligent lifeforms in our galaxy cannot possibly exist.'

*sigh* see above (strawman argument).

Your speculative musings about the presence here of extraterrestrials may seem plausible to you. They do not to me. Now what?

 

[MiddlePillar]

Yes the stigma is still there. Looking forward to the series by National Geographic.
There will always be 'those people" who say, 'intelligent lifeforms in our galaxy cannot possibly exist.' I invite all of those people, to look in the mirror as they say it.
What is the joke again? "Take me to your leader." The funny thing is, we are the joke. The human race has no leader. It just goes to show how socially backward we truly are.
Simply put. another species is observing us and they do not wish to have their presence known period. They have the technology to do so.
And what is it, that they observe?
What all humans seem to be really good at truly, is making war amongst ourselves. If you are an advanced race, you would not contact a species as primitive as we are. From their point of view, we just kill one another. We are just savages. Do you think they would see us as friendly?

Perhaps one day as a race we will be as one. Only time will tell.

Ronald Reagan basically said the same thing in a speech. Apparently he was a proponent of disclosure but followed the advice of his military. He in 1987 at the UN he said...

“Perhaps we need some outside universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world.”

 

[Pogo]

I read several books that came out during Blue Book, almost all of the Images were very obvious fakes, witness testimonies were very dubious.
Even today, military pilots with videos of dots moving do not make ET. It just means we still don’t what they are.

 

[Dave]

We can all agree to disagree. Not everyone believes humanity will travel to the stars one day. Certainly many do believe it. The earth is proof our galaxy is a habitat for life. We are only one seed of 300 million. We are not the only oasis in this desert. When we find intelligent life two scenarios will exist, that life will be less advanced or more advanced. If this species, is less advanced we are responsible for the relationship we develop with them. We will observe and we will not allow them to have that 'smoking gun.' Certainly 'contact' would be an exciting prospect. But, If they do not act as 'one' as a species they will be dangerous. We will not be aggressive in this scenario because we will have moved passed our need for social aggression. The question we really need to ask here, is what would we do if we are the more advanced lifeform? In doing so we can determine a logical outcome(s) of what a more advanced species is doing as well.

Life is a very powerful force when it finds its niche. It has literally taken over our planet. It defines our world and it exists everywhere. We live in the milky way galaxy. It is our address and it is a habitat for life.

 

[murgatroyd]

Whoever is the first to prove the existence of ET will become the most famous person in the world and will be showered with money and attention like no other. This is why we are skeptical of first person accounts.
Deepfake photos and movies can fool anyone at any time about any thing. This is why we are skeptical of images.
Given a physical object from an ET the proof is trivial. Any large university can subject it to isotopic analysis and prove the case.
Foget about stories, forget about pictures, bring me a matchbook cover or a fingernail clipping.
I don't care to hear another impassioned opinion or sincere belief, a million times nothing is still nothing.

Clever. Unfortunately, not guaranteed to catch every conceivable alien visitor.

In this Greg Egan short story, a tiny probe is hurled into a distant star at near lightspeed to leave an imprint on a moon in that star's system that then assembles from local materials two perfectly made specimens of the system's technologically advanced race.

Your isotopic analysis would not be able to tell the difference.

https://outofthiseos.typepad.com/blog/files/GregEganGlory.pdf

 

[billslugg]

Correct, isotopic analysis could provide a false negative reading, but it also could not produce a false positive.
In order for someone on Earth to fake it they would need access to an isotopic centrifuge for each element they needed. Each centrifuge costs on the order of a billion dollars and takes thousands of people to operate. It can be ruled out to a high degree of certainty.

 

[Wind Angel]

The coming year will surely see a persistence of debate, discussion and disbelief regarding unidentified anomalous phenomena.

Unidentified aerial annoyance: Full disclosure or dubious nonsense? : Read more

I, for one am relieved the government is finally taking them seriously. I have seen strange things in the sky on numerous occasions and some of them were undeniably spacecraft of some sort, one a huge Chevron shaped ship that seemed to be at least a mile wide. I tend to keep my sightings and experiences to myself because I resent being labelled a nut. I have had myself checked out medically and delusions aren't one of my issues. Besides, a lot of doctors don't disbelieve in them.

I have never understood why there isn't empirical evidence of visitors and why more astronomers haven't seen them as well. I've seen them so many times I have simply accepted whoever or whatever they are as part of the world I live in. Unlike many New Agers, however, I do not make up spiritual beliefs about them. As far as I am concerned, they are not Interdimensional Light Workers or higher beings. I tend to think of them as just having more advanced technology, not necessarily being more advanced spiritually.

I really hope the government finds evidence of visitors so everyone can just accept their presence and stop considering people like me to be kooks.

 

[Mergatroid]

The coming year will surely see a persistence of debate, discussion and disbelief regarding unidentified anomalous phenomena.

Unidentified aerial annoyance: Full disclosure or dubious nonsense? : Read more

"UFO Nonsense"

^ This

"but now, Navy pilots tell of seeing mysterious objects tracking their fighter jets — vehicles unlike anything they've ever seen before; top-secret Naval videos are leaked that captivate the world."

Go onto Youtube and you will see smart people debunking these videos. Personally, I think the American military is laughing their a$$es off while pointing at the people who believe this bunk.

Does anyone actually believe that, with over a billion cellphones out there, this stuff can keep going on and not a single person has taken a convincing video or gotten some convincing pictures? Stuff that will hold up to scrutiny?

People will believe anything. Just look at the flat Earthers.

 

[Mergatroid]

I, for one am relieved the government is finally taking them seriously. I have seen strange things in the sky on numerous occasions and some of them were undeniably spacecraft of some sort, one a huge Chevron shaped ship that seemed to be at least a mile wide. I tend to keep my sightings and experiences to myself because I resent being labelled a nut. I have had myself checked out medically and delusions aren't one of my issues. Besides, a lot of doctors don't disbelieve in them.

I have never understood why there isn't empirical evidence of visitors and why more astronomers haven't seen them as well. I've seen them so many times I have simply accepted whoever or whatever they are as part of the world I live in. Unlike many New Agers, however, I do not make up spiritual beliefs about them. As far as I am concerned, they are not Interdimensional Light Workers or higher beings. I tend to think of them as just having more advanced technology, not necessarily being more advanced spiritually.

I really hope the government finds evidence of visitors so everyone can just accept their presence and stop considering people like me to be kooks.

"and some of them were undeniably spacecraft "

Bunk, Pure and simple. Especially the "undeniably spacecraft" part. You may have seen some odd phenomena, but I hard think you are qualified to say you have been seeing flying space ships.

Don't you carry a cellphone? Where are your pictures and videos?

 

[Dave]

I for one believe the military are laughing their butts off. They want to be the only source for identifying UFO's and UAP's , then they tell you there is nothing there. At last count there were 171 sightings by military personnel in which no explanation was given. Scientists? What do they know? This is military jurisdiction and the military should be our only source of all information. They laugh. No, we haven't seen any green men.
Wait. What did you see? Classified. They want you to believe we are the only intelligent lifeform in our galaxy, when it should be obvious we are not. I will not speculate on their agenda or reasons for not disclosing classified material. Clearly to them most if not all this information is classified. It is not for our eyes. Do not ask questions. They know what is best for all of us.

 

[murgatroyd]

"The X-Files" ran for nine seasons (plus a big-screen movie or two) and clearly, it turned many people's brains to mush. Witness the bizarre leaps of logic in the "arguments" of the believers.

Science vlogger Anton Petrov came out with a fascinating new video today, relating Fermi's Paradox to another paradox I had never heard of, Liwenthal's Paradox. It's about the (more than) astronomical number of ways in which a chain of amino acids can fold, yet only one of them results in a functioning protein. For this to happen by random chance would take longer than the present age of the universe, yet it happens regularly inside our bodies and takes only a few milliseconds.

Petrov thinks this is another strong piece of evidence in favor of the "Rare Earth" hypothesis. The emergence of life is so unlikely statistically that it must be rare throughout the universe. I agree, but I also think that Liwenthal's Paradox strengthens the Intelligent Design (ID) hypothesis, or at least keeps it alive.

What if the universe is a giant science experiment conducted by a race of beings with godlike powers? They could have seeded every galaxy with exactly one (1) form of complex life. The lightspeed limit keeps them from interacting in a meaningful way, while their progress in the petri dish that is their galaxy is being monitored by the experimenters.

Pure speculation, of course, but at some distant point in the future what is now a matter of metaphysics may turn into physics based on discoveries we cannot yet imagine.

Petrov Video

 

[Dave]

There is another type of mush. The belief that humans are and always will be the center of the universe. No lifeform could ever be more advanced than we are, since we are the center. The be all to end all. It took us a long time to learn the universe does not revolve around us. However, there are some who still hold on to that.

We have a lot of growing still to do. Socially we still have not learned how to be one as a species. Humans problems still stymie us. We have still much more to learn. Hopefully our military will allow us.

 

[Wind Angel]

"and some of them were undeniably spacecraft "

Bunk, Pure and simple. Especially the "undeniably spacecraft" part. You may have seen some odd phenomena, but I hard think you are qualified to say you have been seeing flying space ships.

Don't you carry a cellphone? Where are your pictures and videos?

If I am not qualified to say I have seen flying ships, I am not qualified to determine there are rolling vehicles on the road even although I see them everyday.

Who are you to determine my qualifications? You don't want to believe I saw a flying ship, therefore you question my qualifications to determine for myself what something is.

It was a damn ship. Prove to me it wasn't. I don't have to prove my experience to you. I can't. This sighting I described happened years ago when cellphones didn't have cameras. They were fairly thick heavy things at the time.

Do you know I don't care if you don't believe me? Your belief is irrelevant. Don't believe me, it doesn't bother me that you might be lessening your full experience of life here on Planet Earth. It was amazing. Truly one of the most beautiful non-natural phenomenon I have ever seen.

I highly recommend sky gazing as a relaxing pastime to lower stress and anxiety. You never know what you might see. My whole attitude toward life changed.

I know they're there, even if it's illogical for them to be. Even if they are actually unfriendly, it's still such an amazing and wonderful thing to know we aren't alone.