What the Bleep do we know?

weeman · Feb 7, 2007

I finally saw this movie last night, after hearing so much about it. It is very interesting. To see the way our universe works on a quantum level is utterly mind boggling. I was most interested in the superpositioning of wave particles, and the double slit experiment. Although I have seen the double slit experiment many times before, this movie did a great job at explaining it for the average joe <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> If anyone can inform me more on the topic of superpositioning, I am still a little unclear. Thanks <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Techies: We do it in the dark. "Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity." -Albert Einstein </div>

enigma10 · Feb 7, 2007

The movie is interesting but really keeps to general terms. A beginners guide to quantum concepts. It ties itself around a little love story, imo. It also borrowed alot from what i call a church of thought centered around Rathma. Though i find alot of thier teachings parallel the quantum concept, i draw the line at thier version of prayers, which they do teach as seen in thier own videos. It is this concept alone that , i feel, defines them as something more than what they say they are in refference to religion. As a result, i feel the elements reflecting Rathma's teachings in the movie are tainted in conjecture and reason. I find the rest of sources to be credible though. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan </div>

dragon04 · Feb 7, 2007

I just saw it not too long ago myself. I was a little disappointed. It was kind of "Science Meets The Chick Flick" to me. Although there's not a thing wrong with seeing Marlee Matlin in her skivvies, mind you. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!". </div>

CalliArcale · Feb 7, 2007

Some of it was downright weird, in my opinion. And when I realized that one of the main interviewees was Ramtha.... Wow. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

dragon04 · Feb 7, 2007

And when I realized that one of the main interviewees was Ramtha.... Wow. Oh yeah. Forgot about her. A piece of work, that. Rael and Hoagland might have been busy that day. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!". </div>

weeman · Feb 8, 2007

I understand what you're saying about the chick flick thing Dragon. The movie did kind of deal a lot more with the human mind than I thought it would. Although, I think it can give someone more hope, because it seemed to focus on the stress that we put ourselves through. Humans seem to work so much on our emotions, that we can't ever break free of them to conquer our fears. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Techies: We do it in the dark. "Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity." -Albert Einstein </div>

ianke · Feb 8, 2007

I have seen this movie too. I really liked the physicist's and chemist's views. I myself can even admit to a force greater than myself. However, I felt that a lot of them were on a "Magical Mystery Tour" Sha Laa! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

ianke · Feb 8, 2007

I'm sure glad you don't hear me singing. You guys should be too!<img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

emeyer · Feb 8, 2007

This is exactly what it is - a mystery. we will never be able 2 find definite answers while we r here on planet earth.

enigma10 · Feb 8, 2007

Well thats not true since if we definitely know we wont find answers while we are here on planet earth, we've discerned an answer already, therefore disproving already we cannot when we have. And for my next green eggs and ham trick.... <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan </div>

spacester · Feb 9, 2007

I've been waiting ever since this movie came out - what, 2 years now? - for it to become a topic of discussion. I brought it up maybe 5 times but no one here would touch the subject with a ten foot keyboard. I'm surprised the pseudo-science portrayed is not more savagely attacked, and am glad that the main point of the movie (as mentioned), the possible interconnectedness of unscientific spirituality and "the quantum field" seems to be grasped by some. Two things jumped off the screen for me as 'oh come on!' moments. First, the statement that the natives literally could not see Columbus' ships. Not that they were completely perplexed by the signals in their optic nerves, but that the ships were actually invisible for them. Oh, come on! Secondly, I was was like, who is this Ramtha chick and why is she so featured in this movie? If true, mystery solved there: I heard recently that she financed it. But the Fred Alan Wolf stuff, the guy in Arizona, many of the other folks, wow they really get a person thinking, huh? Superpositioning: yes please, let's hear more on the subject. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

doubletruncation · Feb 10, 2007

There is a fairly interesting review of this movie on the Salon: http://dir.salon.com/story/ent/feature/2004/09/16/bleep/index1.html?pn=1 Some scientists, like David Albert from Columbia, claim that they were taken out of context to support some mystical agenda. Quoting Albert: "I am, indeed, profoundly unsympathetic to attempts at linking quantum mechanics with consciousness." I've got to agree with him there. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

why06 · Feb 10, 2007

Ive seen this movie but didn't watch it all the way through <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ </div><div><ul><li>your move...</li></ul></div> </div>

phoenixbyrd · Feb 10, 2007

The movie did in fact take QM way out of context to further it's own 'spiritual agenda'. QM and the human mind are not linked in any way at all. Your brain is a naturally evolved computer of sorts with a nifty little AI program running. How/why we evolved self-awareness and our level of intelligence is a good question, but QM is not the answer. QM deals with the itty itty bitty small, not with your neurons. There is no such thing as a spiritual realm. Alot, if not all of most of that movie was all a fabrication. An out of context lie.

dragon04 · Feb 10, 2007

My biggest fault with this movie is that I expected it to be more scientifically oriented. After watching it, I found it to be a failed attempt to popularize science in the most wrong way. I guess one might say that a person could feel that their intelligence was being insulted. But there's always Marlee Matlin in her underwear..... LOL <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!". </div>

Swampcat · Feb 11, 2007

"QM and the human mind are not linked in any way at all. Your brain is a naturally evolved computer of sorts with a nifty little AI program running. How/why we evolved self-awareness and our level of intelligence is a good question, but QM is not the answer. QM deals with the itty itty bitty small, not with your neurons." I did not see the program in question, but have read Roger Penrose's book The Emperor's New Mind in which Dr. Penrose "...hypothesizes that quantum mechanics plays an essential role in the understanding of human consciousness." Elsewhere in the book, Dr. Penrose spends considerable time explaining the problems with the "brain-as-digital-computer" concept. This is a good read for those interested in this subject. I would agree that the brain is "a naturally evolved computer," but this certainly does not preclude QM from being part of how it functions. Without QM there would be no modern, transistor-based digital computer as we know it. If we can develop a quantum computer, why can't nature? The nature of self-awareness may or may not depend on QM being a part of how the brain functions. That question is still unanswered. However, IMHO, it is just as likely as not that there is a scientific basis to spirituality and that QM, or something like it, will help us see the Light...so to speak.<img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

phoenixbyrd · Feb 11, 2007

QM deals with the itty itty bitty small, it doesn't deal with the neurotransmitters that allow our brain to function, which gives us consciousness, which means QM has nothing to do with it. Just because we can build a quantum computer doesn't mean our brains are one's. A quantum computer functions alot differently then our brains do.

Swampcat · Feb 12, 2007

"QM deals with the itty itty bitty small, it doesn't deal with the neurotransmitters that allow our brain to function, which gives us consciousness, which means QM has nothing to do with it. Just because we can build a quantum computer doesn't mean our brains are one's. A quantum computer functions alot differently then our brains do." Neurotransmitters are only one part of brain function. Much of how the brain works is still unknown; particularly, the nature of consciousness. Neurotransmitters, as I understand it, are part of the transport mechanism for nerve signals. There is no need for QM to be involved in the transport mechanism...normal chemistry will do. Consciousness is another matter. I wouldn't presume to state as fact how the brain works. I was simply reporting what I had read and providing my own opinion that it is too early to exclude quantum mechanical influence upon brain function...especially with regard to the nature of consciousness. IMO, you are making statements about the nature of the brain as if you have the facts. Could you elaborate? Provide links? If you are a researcher in the field or have some special knowledge, I would be interested in seeing it. Otherwise, what you say is simply unsupported opinion. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

phoenixbyrd · Feb 12, 2007

It's common sense really. Brain functions are understood. Electrochemical reactions. Unfortunately as I said, QM doesn't deal with this at all. And a QM computer functions entirely different then the human brain, so different in fact that you can't even compare the two. Go learn about QM Computers and what makes them work and then try to find those same structure's in the human brain. Good luck. All this movie is doing is misinforming the general public which is generally ignorant and gullible and willing to accept it's message openly without any forethought. Exactly how 'consciousness' works is abit of a mystery, but given the knowledge that QM doesn't deal with macro systems we can thus conclude that it has no effect on brain function. http://computer.howstuffworks.com/question475.htm Now run off and try to find all that inside a brain. Enjoy.

enigma10 · Feb 12, 2007

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />All this movie is doing is misinforming the general public which is generally ignorant and gullible and willing to accept it's message openly without any forethought.<hr /></blockquote> And showing off sexy white legs.<img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan </div>

CalliArcale · Feb 14, 2007

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr /> All this movie is doing is misinforming the general public which is generally ignorant and gullible and willing to accept it's message openly without any forethought.<hr /></blockquote> Pretty much. My mom was suckered in by it even, and she's got a quality college education. She changed her mind when she watched the credits and realized a) that that lady was "channeling" Ramtha, and that b) the whole thing was pretty much an elaborate Ramtha promotion. I have to agree that it's totally absurd to suggest that the natives couldn't actually see Columbus' ships. Insulting to their intelligence, too. I'm surprised the movie didn't trigger a backlash from native communities for suggesting that they were too stupid to see ships. People can certainly see things they don't understand. They probably don't know what it is they're seeing, but they can see it. The brain doesn't blot out what it doesn't understand. (It blots out things falling on the blind spot or retina defects, but that's about it.) If it did, how would one explain the cargo cults of the South Pacific that built huge fake airfields, complete with airstrips and even American flags, in an effort to call down more magical cargo? They didn't understand what was going on, or what airplanes were, but they certainly saw them, and observed them well enough to be able to accurately duplicate the aircraft, prefab base buildings, rifles, flags, signage, and even military parade drills entirely from memory after the Americans vacated those islands. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

spacester · Feb 15, 2007

OK good, so we've exposed the bad science in the movie, that's what I've been waiting for. I thought that as a promoter of science for the public, it was fine and even valuable. The party sequence I thought was very good at showing non-science types how the amygdala works. I personally didn't like it, but some non-science friends said it was good. Of course the main point is the question of the possible intersection of the quantum world with consciousness, a fascinating supposition and while only one step beyond wild speculation, I for one will not be surprised to see it gain credence over the next few years/decades. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

vandivx · Feb 16, 2007

"People can certainly see things they don't understand." --- when people think of more primitive civilizations they typically over or underestimate them, in this case its underestimation, any jungle dweller when he sees a ship for the first time (which he of course sees) he has no difficulty to understand that it is like his canoe or dugout log except bigger and more sophisticated than he imagined up to this point and if its something that he doesn't have any analogy for he just accepts it for whatever it seems to him to be overestimation happens when those jungle dwellers come to live in our civilization as it often happens in imigration and they wear our clothes and look at our TV and have some sort of job... and we then tend to see them more or less as on our level as far as civilization goes while underneath it all they typically remain fundamentaly primitive and typically it is like that with them for the rest of their lives, only their children have chance to rise beyond mere outward signs of civilization we also often overestimate people from our own civilization who we grew up alongside simply because they also exhibit outward signs of being civilized which fools us into thinking them equal to ourselves but point is not everybody who gets born in the same place rises to that place so to speak, only difference from the jungle folks is that even their best can't help them if they don't get out of there but for people who grow up here in Western countries and remain primitive that is a sin and major failing didn't see the movie but IMO it doesn't really matter if it contains some mysticism, those who really will want to know will find better science before long if they are interested and those who just lazily drift and accept whatever floats around just because it cought their momentary interest deserve it and they don't count anyway, its like catching a virus and falling ill when you are susceptible to it, I mean if such peop <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

Swampcat · Feb 18, 2007

"It's common sense really." Ah....accusing me of lacking in common sense. What an interesting debating tactic <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />. First of all, I am not trying to take a particular position in regards to a QM connection to consciousness. I don't have the qualifications to determine whether it does or does not. Apparently, neither do you. I am simply pointing out that there are reputable scientists in relevant fields who consider it worth studying. To discount the possibility at this point in our understanding of consciousness seems rather close-minded. I never said that a brain functions like a quantum computer. For most of the brain's functions, QM isn't required. For things like nerve signal propagation, those electrochemical reactions work just fine. It may indeed turn out that consciousness will eventually be found to have a basis in these same electrochemical reactions. It may be that the brain's structure, being so massively parallel, may contribute to consciousness and QM is unnecessary. OTOH, as you say, "[e]xactly how 'consciousness' works is abit[sic] of a mystery." So far, the nature of consciousness has eluded efforts to define it in electrochemical terms. What Dr. Penrose is suggesting, as I understand it, is that QM might come into play somewhere around the classical/quantum boundary. You might want to read up on Dr. Penrose's work before completely dismissing it. The application of QM to our understanding of consciousness is indeed controversial and unproven, but you have yet to show that electrochemical reactions alone explain consciousness. Again, I did not see the program in question. From what I'm reading in this thread it was probably way off base. I'm not a fan of mysticism or of misusing science to promote mysticism. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Feb 18, 2007

BTW, the article on quantum computing that you posted commented that very low temperatures were a requirement. You might want to check out the following recent article from SpaceRef.com. <center>Quantum hall effect observed at room temperature <blockquote>Using the highest magnetic fields in the world, an international team of researchers has observed the quantum Hall effect – a much studied phenomenon of the quantum world – at room temperature./p> The quantum Hall effect was previously believed to only be observable at temperatures close to absolute zero (equal to minus 459 degrees). But when scientists at the National High Magnetic Field Laboratory in the U.S. and at the High Field Magnet Laboratory in the Netherlands put a recently developed new form of carbon called graphene in very high magnetic fields, scientists were surprised by what they saw./p></blockquote></center> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

What the Bleep do we know?

weeman

Guest

enigma10

Guest

dragon04

Guest

CalliArcale

Guest

dragon04

Guest

weeman

Guest

ianke

Guest

ianke

Guest

emeyer

Guest

enigma10

Guest

spacester

Guest

doubletruncation

Guest

why06

Guest

phoenixbyrd

Guest

dragon04

Guest

Swampcat

Guest

phoenixbyrd

Guest

Swampcat

Guest

phoenixbyrd

Guest

enigma10

Guest

CalliArcale

Guest

spacester

Guest

vandivx

Guest

Swampcat

Guest

Swampcat

Guest

Similar threads

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Share this page