Why Russian and US spacesuits on ISS?

[ozspace]

I wonder what advantage there is (other than national pride) to be flying Russian suits as well as US. <br />I read a report on Nasaspaceflight.com http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=5032 that mentions the problems on the last EVA (to retract a stuck antenna) because the Russions suits lacked helmet cams and therefore mission controls situational awareness.<br /><br />Is there any "real" need to have both and all that duplication? Sorry if this has been discussed before, I couldn't find it...<br /><br />Peter <br />Edit to fix spelling

 

[vogon13]

Russians would have many years experience making, using, and training in their suits.<br /><br />Same applies to us.<br /><br />I am not sure, but would a Russian suit even work or fit in the US Space Shuttle, and would a US suit work in a Soyuz?<br /><br />Be careful what you want change.<br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[ozspace]

The Russian EVA suit is totally different from their launch and entry suits (Sokol), as are the US ones.<br />Not sure about the 'fit' question, can the Russians even EVA from a free flying Soyuz?

 

[vogon13]

Seems like I have some pictures somewhere.<br /><br />IIRC, after the Soyuz depressurization accident during re-entry they required their cosmonauts to be suited. I don't know if they still do. Your right about that Soviet EVA suit, you crawl into it thru a hatch in the back.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

I seem to remember reading in another thread that the Russian suits were used mainly prior to the arrival of Quest when a orbiter was not available. (There is a Russian airlock called Piers in addition to Quest.) Whether they are still on the station or not, I don't know. However, I suspect the Russians now use the American suits so they can use Quest. The Russian's cams might have simply not been working. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[tohaki]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Not sure about the 'fit' question, can the Russians even EVA from a free flying Soyuz?<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>I don't know, but it is easy to imagine how it could be done.

 

[bpfeifer]

The short answer is that each nation is responsible for their own stuff on the ISS. This means they have to supply food, water, and air to their astronauts. It means they are responsible for sending their own astronauts to the station. It means they are responsible for their own hardware. <br /><br />This last item means that both US and Russian crew members must be able to perform spacewalks. This is at the bottom line a political requirement.<br /><br />It turns out, however, that having both sets of spacewalking equipment is a good thing. When the Shuttle was grounded, one of the US spacesuits was also down for a long time. During this period, several spacewalks were conducted in Russian suits to perform work on the US segment. Usually you wear Russian suits when working on the Russian segment, and US suits when working on the US segment.<br /><br />The two systems have different capabilities. For example, the Russian suits can communicate directly with ground controllers (not going through ISS systems), but only when directly over Russian ground stations. The US suits, on the other hand, provide great vidoe coverage to ground controllers.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Brian J. Pfeifer http://sabletower.wordpress.com<br /> The Dogsoldier Codex http://www.lulu.com/sabletower<br /> </div>

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"Is there any "real" need to have both and all that duplication?"</font><br /><br />I *believe* that I recall reading in a story a couple of years ago that the suit and airlock capabilities/connections do not match between the US and Russian segments (i.e. the Russion suits cannot be used from Quest and the US suits cannot be used from Pirs). IIRC -- the story came out when one of the suits (I think it was an Orlan) was not functional and there was an EVA that had to occur from Pirs.

 

[llivinglarge]

Would Russian and US astronauts have the knowledge of how to use each other's spacesuits in case of emergencies?

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I *believe* that I recall reading in a story a couple of years ago that the suit and airlock capabilities/connections do not match between the US and Russian segments (i.e. the Russion suits cannot be used from Quest and the US suits cannot be used from Pirs).<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />That is precisely correct; the suits need certain servicing (for loading oxygen and recharging batteries, for instance) and this means they need to be compatible with the airlock. Orlan suits (the Russian suits) would be used for any EVAs out of Pirs and probably also if any "internal EVA" was required. (I think they're a bit skinnier than the EMUs, and thus should fit better inside the station.) EMUs (the US equivalent) would be used for any EVAs out of the US airlock Quest. I believe Quest was supposed to be able to service Orlans as well originally, but that this was abandoned at a late stage for some reason; maybe there's just no point, given that Pirs is a perfectly good alternative.<br /><br />To eliminate some confusion, these are not the suits used for launch and entry. They are far too bulky. The Russian suit for launch and entry is called "Sokol" and is white with blue accents. I think it looks rather nice, actually. It's a partial pressure suit which interfaces directly with equipment in the Soyuz descent module. That equipment provides oxygen in the event of a cabin depressurization. The suit is engineered to work with the Soyuz; you have to use it and no other suit.<br /><br />The American launch and entry suit is a blaze orange full-pressure suit, which means it would let the crew bail at a higher altitude than the Sokol would, although realistically with Shuttle the odds of survival in a bailout situation are pretty much nil. (That's probably true of Soyuz too, actually, given the sheer forces involved at reentry and descent.) It's probably a bit more generic than Sokol, simply because the Shuttle seat <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[erioladastra]

"I seem to remember reading in another thread that the Russian suits were used mainly prior to the arrival of Quest when a orbiter was not available. (There is a Russian airlock called Piers in addition to Quest.) Whether they are still on the station or not, I don't know. However, I suspect the Russians now use the American suits so they can use Quest. "<br /><br />They are still used and were just used last week during the EVA. Generally if it is Russian task they use the Orlan and exit the Docking compartment. If a US, they use the EMU and the airlock. This is true whether astronauts or cosmonauts are going out the door. The airlock is retrofitted to be used with the Orlan but the Russians haven't approved such use. There is some polictics there too - the Russians don't want to use EMUs for "their" stuff even thoguh most cosmoanuts prefer the EMU. However, as is the case in an upcoming EVA, the Russians will do tasks in EMUs depending on who si running the EVA. In this case there is a complicated biut of bartering that goes on in book keeping contributions.

 

[erioladastra]

"This last item means that both US and Russian crew members must be able to perform spacewalks. This is at the bottom line a political requirement.<br /><br />No, it is a safety requirement. You have to be able to do continegncy EVAs. The way it was implemented - 2 airlocks, 2 types of suits, was somewhat politcal. You want redundancy but things could be a lot more efficient with one design.<br /><br />"It turns out, however, that having both sets of spacewalking equipment is a good thing. When the Shuttle was grounded, one of the US spacesuits was also down for a long time. "<br /><br />Thats partly because to fly EMU equipment on the Russian progress was very expensive.<br /><br /><br />

 

[erioladastra]

"Would Russian and US astronauts have the knowledge of how to use each other's spacesuits in case of emergencies? "<br /><br />Generally yes, two people are trained for Russian EVAs and two are trained for US. Could be the same or not. The third person helps as IVA and they usually know the suits pretty well.

 

[erioladastra]

"And for whoever asked if the crew can use all the suits, yes they can. All crew are trained on both US and Russian systems, and are required to be fluent in both English and Russian so that in an emergency, any of them can operate any of the systems."<br /><br />Well not exactly. Since the third person helps the other two get ready they have a good bit of training on on the suits and may know the suits well enough to operate, but there is not rule or guarantee. Generally though we like them to have as much training as possible. As to being required to be fluent - yes, but in practicality some have not and interpretors on the ground have been required in some cases.

 

[lampblack]

<font color="yellow">I *believe* that I recall reading in a story a couple of years ago that the suit and airlock capabilities/connections do not match between the US and Russian segments (i.e. the Russion suits cannot be used from Quest and the US suits cannot be used from Pirs). IIRC -- the story came out when one of the suits (I think it was an Orlan) was not functional and there was an EVA that had to occur from Pirs.</font><br /><br />I remember reading the same thing. Russian suits are designed for use with the Russian airlock -- and American suits are designed for use with the American airlock. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[lampblack]

<font color="yellow">That is precisely correct; the suits need certain servicing (for loading oxygen and recharging batteries, for instance) and this means they need to be compatible with the airlock.</font><br /><br />whoops... I posted the previous note before I saw this. I need to start actually <i>reading</i> the threads before posting. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[erioladastra]

Well actually the US airlock is fully compatible with the Orlan. It has just never been certified with the suits and Russia doesn't want to use it for various reasons. But it could be used with little work.