Why Space Exploration is Important

[mental_avenger]

Whether or not you choose to respond or ignore is not important.<br /><br />My position is, and always has been, that it is inappropriate to take another person’s comments out of context and respond to them separately, IF the response misrepresents the original poster’s apparent meaning.<br /><br />My position is, and always has been, that it is unnecessary, cumbersome, and often self-defeating to quote entire passages or posts in order to respond to a single point.<br /><br />My position is, and always has been, that it is perfectly alright to respond to a single point a member has posted, regardless of the number of points they have made in that post. There can be several reasons for that.<br />1. I may consider only that one point relevant to the main theme or topic.<br />2. I may agree with the rest of the points and see no reason to respond to them.<br />3. I may not have much time and choose the main point I wish to address.<br />4. The rest of the post may be a reiteration of previous points and therefore not require a response.<br /><br />Regarding the comment you so vigorously protested, I was responding to a single comment you made regarding technology. I did not say, indicate, insinuate, or otherwise claim that your comment represented all or even part of your theme, belief system or point. I merely pointed out that you are the one who claimed that <i>”the comparison is being made on the basis of level of technology”</i> <i>in that sentence</i> not I, and that my main point when I presented the example was actually the “harmony with nature” aspect. The rest of my initial response was asking where that would take us IF we made that comparison. Again I did not intend to insinuate that was how you would do it. Whether you choose to accept that or not is up to you. I certainly do not have time for any more of this.<br /><br />Back to Space Exploration. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="2" color="#ff0000"><strong>Our Solar System must be passing through a Non Sequitur area of space.</strong></font></p> </div>

 

[mental_avenger]

halman says: <font color="yellow"> Certainly, one of the greatest benefits of space exploration is the outward focus it gives us. The more inward our focus is, the more we concentrate on our differences. We need to be challenged to discover our weaknesses and shortcomings, so that we can correct them. And seeing ourselves as one people is essential if we are going to survive, because we all are going to have to make sacrifices. </font><br /><br />Well said. However, I don’t think we need to discover our weaknesses, we already know what they are.<br /><br />halman says: <font color="yellow"> But to me, the most important thing about space exploration is that it makes it possible for us to learn to do things somewhere else besides here on Earth. </font><br /><br />True. More than that, it will force us to be more creative in a practical manner. Instead of creating more toys, we will be forced to create real survival technologies. We currently have the basics, but have no incentive to develop them.<br /><br />halman says: <font color="yellow"> And such a small portion of the world's population is currently enjoying the rewards of all of this energy conversion. What will it be like when the majority of people on Earth are enjoying a standard of living equivilant to what the United States has today? </font><br /><br />I doubt that will ever happen. Not only would it be impractical, there are plenty of cultural and social differences that will provide significant separation. When too many countries become too equal, it always ends up in war.<br /><br />halman says: <font color="yellow"> Ultimately, space will be our heavy industry park, our source of raw materials, and where most of our energy is collected and used. </font><br /><br />Perhaps, but that will be a looooooong ways out there. We should have a viable, self-sufficient colony or two on Mars long before any significant industry moves off-planet.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="2" color="#ff0000"><strong>Our Solar System must be passing through a Non Sequitur area of space.</strong></font></p> </div>

 

[hame1ton]

Hi !!! I`m doing a debate on space exploration at school and have become interested in the topic i wondered if anyone could tell me some more about the good and bad points about space exploration ??? Please contact me if you can help. Thanks, <br /> Hame1ton xxx

 

[mental_avenger]

OK, I will correct you. Technology has the potential to solve almost all the real problems in the world today. While technology often creates new and unique problems, we are getting increasingly better at solving them quickly, or even solving them before they begin.<br /><br />Comments that may have been misleading were merely arguing the case against trying to use level of technology to define what “civilization” is, when the term “civilization” was intended as part of a phrase to be used to entice a broad variety of people to become excited enough about space exploration to invest in it (presumably without being able to realize a timely direct benefit).<br /><br />Actually, I prefer to establish a viable, self-sufficient colony on Mars before attempting to fix all the problems on Earth. Fixing all the problems on Earth would be a perpetual task. If we wait until we have solved ALL the problems at home, we will never leave home.<br /><br />KIP says: <font color="yellow"> Energy concerns can be wiped away if we impliment means to deliver energy from earth orbit using microwaves. </font><br /><br />I have seen the proposals. It is a technology which I seriously doubt will ever be used on Earth. I used to be a proponent of SPS, inspired by Jerry Pournelle’s Survival With Style concept. However, after examining the potential problems, I have decided it is simply too dangerous. Like directing asteroids into Earth Orbit, the consequences of a simple failure could be far too disasterous.<br /><br />KIP says: <font color="yellow"> I believe that during the next 20-30 years space development will develope exponentially. </font><br /><br />Perhaps. I would like to see it sooner rather than later, but I suspect that the new be-so-cautious-that-no-one-ever-dies-in-an-accident mentality will hamstring us for a long time. IMO, we currently have all the technologies needed to send a group of 200 permanent colonists to Mars. That is ALL the technologies. We l <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="2" color="#ff0000"><strong>Our Solar System must be passing through a Non Sequitur area of space.</strong></font></p> </div>

 

[spacester]

Technology technology technology. Let's talk about technology for the next ten years, just as we talked about technology for the last ten years. Maybe if we talk about it enough something good will happen.<br /><br />Maybe, just maybe, all us techno geeks need to talk about humanity too. Perhaps the universe is waiting for us to embrace the full range of the human experience before it lets us go into space in large numbers.<br /><br />OK maybe that's a big stretch, but am I the only person that thinks that there's going to be a lot more to space development than technology and profits? Are those the only relevant aspects of humanity?<br /><br />I don't mind being alone on this, time will prove me correct just as it has on other issues. But on the chance there are people here who can see beyond the 'technology solves everything' approach, I presented my thesis here. <br /><br />I apologize to those who are unable to grasp the advanced concepts here. I now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[mental_avenger]

KIP says: <font color="yellow"> Centrifugal force should enough to allow colonies almost anywhere in the solar system. </font><br /><br />Think about that for a moment. Take any small town. Now, put the entire town under centrifugal force in such a manner that everyone can go about their business normally.<br /><br />KIP says: <font color="yellow"> If a magnetic field exists around a planet or moon, it should produce enough energy for just about any space craft. </font><br /><br />Few places we would want to colonize would qualify. In addition, nothing is free. You cannot drag a wire through a magnetic field without causing………..well………..drag. Turn the rotor of a generator. Now hook up a load to the generator and turn it again. You cannot get something for nothing.<br /><br />Oil rigs, good analogy.<br /><br />KIP says: <font color="yellow"> Earth would the biggest consumer of new raw materials from space. </font><br /><br />I disagree. Currently, the cost of producing anything in space for use on Earth would cost several thousand times what it cost to produce on Earth. I don’t see that cost being reduced to be equal to or less than the cost of production on Earth for <i>at least</i> several hundred years. However, producing materials and finished goods in space for use in space makes sense because competition from Earth has to haul their goods up from the deep gravity well. Although that cost will also be reduced, it will require a major technological advancement to overcome the inherent advantage of making goods in space for use in space.<br /><br />KIP says: <font color="yellow"> The best way to make a colony is to use surrounding resources to keep it viable. </font><br /><br />Correct. However, there will be a fairly long startup time for that. At first, even with plenty of initial supplies from Earth, colonies will spend most of their first years just surviving. Eventually, certain industries will become practical, on Mar <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p style="margin-top:0in;margin-left:0in;margin-right:0in" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="2" color="#ff0000"><strong>Our Solar System must be passing through a Non Sequitur area of space.</strong></font></p> </div>

 

[arobie]

Technology Technology<br /><br />Humanity Humanity Humanity<br /><br />Now I am a techno geek, always have been, always will be. I love working with numbers as some of you might have seen, and I love to think about technological concepts. Personally, my bias is toward space math and space tech rather than other uses of math and technology for my own reasons, and I think I'm seeing what spacester is trying to get across here.<br /><br />Humanity and civilization is about much more than technology, obviously. Exploring, exploiting, and utylizing space is largely about technology because without technology none of it is possible. But (!) out into space along side our technology goes us, humanity and our civilization. In such new and radical environments we are going to undergo change. Social changes will be momentous. Political changes will be prominent. There might even be changes to us humans as we adapt to the new environments, but this last one is speculation, and I can't back it up.<br /><br />The changes we will undergo as society, as humanity, as civilization are essential to us. Change is synonymous with advancement here. Without change, we are stagnating. We will become decadent and decline as a species. The changes that will occur are advances because they will keep us away from stagnation. The new ideas and new ways of life that will be influxed into humanity will be very healthy for us. In fact they will be necessitous for our advancement.<br /><br />While technology is indispensable for our advancement into space, there will be more to our space activities than technology. Humanity will be very distinct in all of this as we change. The new environments will stimulate change vital to our advancement. This advancement is just as good a reason for space as not having all our eggs in one basket. Ensuring that we will not get wiped out by one unfortunate incident is as important ensuring we won't stagnate and decline.<br /><br />Space is about much more than the technology

 

[scottb50]

It is warm and safe here. If there were a dire threat to the world then we might be urged to get there faster....<br /><br />That work really well for the dinosaurs, Dodos, Carrier Pigions, Black Rhinos, Panda and other animals who didn't have the mental capacity to see what was happening to them and do something about it. Unfortunately those who see the problem are ridiculed by those who insists on ignoring it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rogers_buck]

Exactly. Add to the list of natural causes of extinction those we bring to the table ourselves. Sooner or later al Qaeda will be able to build a anti-matter bomb using a kit they buy on eBay. Ok, that's a stretch, but you know what I mean.<br /><br />To SURVIVE a certain level of technology under our control, the technology has to inevitably control us. As society becomes more populated it is inevitable that freedoms must suffer. Examples of this in the nacent stage is gun control, powerfull laser pointers, controls on fertilizer sales, etc.<br /><br />If we don't start spreading into space and soon, humans will simply miss the brass ring. With so many systems geared to restricting freedoms, the pioneer gene that drags us to invest in space with uncertain or negative returns will be ruled wastefull or even dangerous.<br /><br />If we stay on earth we will all become the same creatures living the same lives within a few meager percentage points of allowed deviation. If you need an example of this just look at the cells in your own body. The same laws of nature that governed the transformation of individual organisms into a collective will act upon our society and produce the same results.<br /><br />A bleak world to be sure, but a prosperous one from the standpoint of 3 hots and a cot with security for those who comply. Perhaps that world will produce artificially evolved biological or cybernetic children that will journey to the stars for the same reasons we feel compelled to do so today, or perhaps it will lack this pioneer gene and simply stagnate.<br /><br />What is certain is that in the here and now, we have within our reach the technology to spread humanity mark 1 to a few safe havens. That may not seem like much, but if you look at what America as the beacon of freedom meant to the oppressed world of the past, you can easilly imagine a Mars colony setting the standards that earthmen will admire and aspire.<br /><br />Space exploration is a war between long term

 

[frodo1008]

Why would it be so difficult to understand? We talk about technology because it is the enabler. Without technology there IS no future in space! It is that simple. However, technology IS expensive, so economics and profits are the enablers of technology! At least when you get to talking about placing thousands into space. It IS NOT going to be NASA that does this, it is going to be private industry needing ordinary workers eventually that is going to place humanity into space.<br /><br />Philosophy is good in itself, but it does NOT do anything on its own! <br /><br />Quite a number of years ago, when I was going to the local Jr, Col. and taking calculus and physics and other such subjects, I used to have lunch in the college cafeteria. Some very nice older ladies also happened to have lunch at the same time. We got into conversations and I told them what I was taking. They didn't think much of what I was taking as they were taking some philosophy instructor that they all thought was terrific. They told me that all I was getting out of college was mere training, and that I should also take such subjects as they were (of course, what they didn't realize was that I would have been an English Literature major if I hadn't have been a physics major). One day one them got particularly annoying about this, and I turned and asked her what her husband did for a living. She replied that he was an engineer! To which I stated that if he hadn't have gotten his "Training" then she wouldn't be living such a life style that she could learn philosophy. After that I had no more problems with the ladies!<br /><br />So just as that ladie's husband was her enabler, so are technology and economics going to be the enablers of humanity truly getting into space! Quite frankly, the philosophy will follow anyway. We really don't have to settle that now. But we do need to know how the enablers are going to work, or we aren't even going to get started. And taking a superior attitude