Women Take Back Seat In Science

[zavvy]

<b>Women Take Back Seat In Science</b><br /><br />LINK<br /><br />The path for women in science remains a "difficult trek", according to a group of US researchers writing in the latest edition of Science magazine. <br /><br />They say that although there have been major advances, academic institutions are still not making full use of the pool of women scientists available. <br /><br />Female scientists sometimes find the campus environment "chilly" and may encounter "unconscious discrimination". <br /><br />They also face the extra challenge of balancing home and family life. <br /><br />"The good news is we have made progress," said lead author Jo Handelsman, of the University of Wisconsin-Madison, US. "The bad news is we still have a long way to go to achieve equity." <br /><br />'Challenges' <br /><br />Professor Handelsman and her colleagues believe there are a range of challenges that can derail women and prevent them from fulfilling their full academic potential. <br /><br />"There is still a lot of covert and overt hostility on American campuses," she said. "Some of it is outright illegal behaviour, but most of it is subtle. It makes women feel undervalued and not respected." <br /><br />Professor Handelsman and her colleagues say that, broadly speaking, there are four areas within which woman encounter hurdles. <br /><br /><br />* The pipeline: In some fields, notably engineering and the physical sciences, fewer women are trained to the PhD level and encouraged to pursue academic careers. <br /><br />* Climate: Many women scientists who left the profession said they did so because of hostility from colleagues. According to the researchers, this atmosphere is invisible to many men, who tend "to perceive a better climate for women". <br /><br />* Unconscious bias: According to the report, some people within science are unconsciously biased against women. The researchers cite a study which revealed that people ev

 

[emperor_of_localgroup]

<font color="magenta">* Climate: Many women scientists who left the profession said they did so because of hostility from colleagues. According to the researchers, this atmosphere is invisible to many men, who tend "to perceive a better climate for women". <br /> <br />* Unconscious bias: According to the report, some people within science are unconsciously biased against women. The researchers cite a study which revealed that people evaluating work were likely to give it lower scores if they knew it was by a woman. </font><br /><br />The above statements are 'blame it on something'. This is a touchy subject I hate to make comment because human are emotional species. <br /><br />I taught some girls in engineering fields who are extremely smart, then I thought there are thousands of colleges, universities and thousands of girls like them. What happen to them? Why dont we see female inventors or top of the cream scientists? Answer to that puzzle is very simple (in my narrow minded opinion). Boys are more 'curious about things' than girls. You dont have to go far. Just look at this SDC message board. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#ff0000"><strong>Earth is Boring</strong></font> </div>

 

[dragon04]

Tell that to Carolyn Porco, Heidi Hammel, Sally Ride, Jill Tarter, Carolyn Shoemaker, and Debra Fischer among others before taking much credence in that link. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[contracommando]

Maybe, but there is possibly an alternative psychological explanation as well. Go to any public high school in America during lunchtime. What do you see? The answer is voluntary segregation. None of the whites sit with the blacks, and vice versa. When a field, like science, is dominated by one particular group to begin with (men), humans often subconsciously segregate themselves-they tend not to approach certain areas filled with those not like themselves. Instead, they tend to gravitate towards disciplines that are dominated by those who are similar to themselves (traditional “women’s jobs"). It isn’t so much a matter of discrimination, or women being less curious, as it is a matter of self-segregation. <br />

 

[pluto_vic]

I think that there's just less women who want to go into science than there are men. It also depends on the field though, like chemistry vs biology vs physics vs general. In my experience, there are a greater percentage of women in chemistry than physics, with biol. about in the middle. What people do with their interest areas or qualifications is their own business. Self-segregation may be a factor, but if so I feel it wouldn't have significant impact anyway.

 

[CalliArcale]

No, self-segregation has a very profound affect, in all fields of human endeavor. It can be seen very quickly experimentally. One unintended experiment occured during the filming of the very first "Planet of the Apes" movie. Actors reminiscing about the movie recalled how, during lunch breaks, the actors would end up gravitating towards other actors with the same sort of facial appliances. People dressed as gorillas hung out with other gorillas, chimps hung out with chimps, and so on. And most of them were people who would normally have considered one another as the same social group (predominantly white males in Hollywood).<br /><br />That happened in only a few weeks, among people who knew they wouldn't be associating with one another long-term, as they were only together for the duration of filming. How much more profound could that be among teens, who are trying to figure out who they are and who realize that their entire lives could be affected by their decisions?<br /><br />This is complicated by the fact that in high school, girls are trying very hard to be women and boys are trying very hard to be men. They aren't generally very comfortable with the opposite sex yet, are worried of rejection, and in many cases haven't really come to terms with their own sexuality yet. They are yearning for adulthood, and this makes them highly susceptible to peer pressure. This isn't entirely a bad thing; children are hard-wired to be open to peer pressure because it's how they learn how to function in society. But it does mean that they will begin ascribing various activities to particular sexes, and trying to fit in with that model. Many girls find themselves thinking that science or math is too hard and a waste of time for a girl. Some have a perception that girls can't do well in it (whether by lack of skill or lack of opportunity) and decide that it's more practical to pick something that girls can succeed in. Others will see the lack of women in science as an <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[emperor_of_localgroup]

What makes an inventor or top scientist? In addition to smartness they also need curiosity and perseverance, sticking to a problem days and nights. Necessity may be but curiosity is also the mother of inventions. <br /><br />Let me explain how subtle this curiosity can be. I explain a complicated topic and ask a qustion, the girls quickly give me the correct answers. But what is interesting to note, some boys not only give the correct answers, they also ask me 'what if' questions. That's curiosity. <br /><br />Pluto_vic, yes, girls try to stay away from Phsyics and Engineering but tend to go into chemistry or biology. Does math has anything to do with this? Another good news is more and more girls are going into medical schools, I heard the girls/boys ratio in med schools is now over 50%. But unfortunately I still see only male physicians come up with new inventions in med fields. Hope things will change.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#ff0000"><strong>Earth is Boring</strong></font> </div>

 

[pluto_vic]

"The first will just have to put up with being surrounded by men"??<br />I would have thought that it would be a welcome change for as many females as would think it horrendous.<br /><br />Maybe women re-assess their situation more, reflecting on how they are doing in a course and changing or dropping out if they aren't going very well.<br /><br />btw, I've never heard of a costume being called a facial appliance before <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> original, cool

 

[pluto_vic]

I agree that curiousity and perseverance are important characteristics. Just wondering, maybe the education system could help here; rather than an answer being 'right' or 'wrong', which would lead to more people just giving answers, do you think we should tell kids it's open-discussion time in order to let a little more curiousity emerge?

 

[yevaud]

Really? I went to school with quite a bevy of talented, well-trained women.<br /><br />Example:<br /><br />http://www.ametsoc.org/atmospolicy/bios/genenebio.html<br /><br />Genene and I were both Undergrads at BU. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

Well, pluto, some females will indeed find it a welcome change. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> I know I personally have never been bothered by it, but then, I tend to relate about equally to both women and men -- in fact, sometimes I relate better to men, because I tend not to be interested in yakking about stereotypical ladies' topics and would prefer to talk about science. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[pluto_vic]

Maybe it's self-segregation that makes us notice whether there are more men/women in certain areas, and assess it, rather than joining the group or not. Good to have reinforced that there ARE plenty of talented, educated women out there <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[yevaud]

There damned sure are.<br /><br />And I agree...nothing is harder to change than someone's cherished, preconceived notions... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[pluto_vic]

I myself prefer male company when talking about science, but that's because of the people I know. Preconcieved notions... yep I know exactly what you mean <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> The blokes aren't so bad and I bet there are more elite females in science than many would think.<br /><br />Maybe I can become one of them one day <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[yevaud]

All it takes is hard work and time.<br /><br />I admit that there aren't as many women as men in the scientific fields, but it's still a goodly proportion, and steadily growing, IMO. But, they may well not be as demostrative or as outspoken, on average, as the males. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[contracommando]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p> “Just wondering, maybe the education system could help here; rather than an answer being 'right' or 'wrong', which would lead to more people just giving answers, do you think we should tell kids it's open-discussion time in order to let a little more curiosity emerge? <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />I’ve read somewhere that in countries like Japan, S. Korea, and Germany they do just that. They present information to students and ask them to analyze it, whereas, in the USA students are presented with material and are expected to memorize it with less discussion or input from the teacher. <br /><br />Those countries, I believe, have higher graduation rates and often produce some of the world’s finest mathematicians, scientists, etc. <br /><br />

 

[pluto_vic]

In my year and course there are 5 females and about 20 males. To date 1 female and 6 males have changed courses. This is a trend that looks like it will continue, unfortunately. Rather than pushing for more females in science, I think we should be concentrating on promoting science itself.<br /><br />Hmm, hard work. Better get back to it then...

 

[yevaud]

Interesting you name those three nations.<br /><br />Yes, they all produce fine scientists, but fewer than you'd think. All three societies, to some degree or another, value conformity to "norms" as being quite important. So many students do not make that extra step to genius (as expressed in their work). They don't want to be too much of a maverick.<br /><br />Whereas here, people think as they will, say what they think, and damn the consequences. It's actually a strength, not a weakness. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[lunatio_gordin]

I don't know about everyone else, but i make sure i ask questions when i think i'm on to something. Or if i think that there's a problem with it, i ask for more clarification. and then if it still doesn't quite fit, i'll ask directly about it.

 

[pluto_vic]

There's always going to be a certain degree of memorising involved, but having experienced both American and non-American systems, the difference here is quite noticeable if not significant.

 

[yevaud]

Yep, that's how you *should* go about it. I really think more people fail out of science majors, because they don't ask questions, than we'd think.<br /><br />If you're not so curious about it that you can't/don't ask questions, then you shouldn't be there, IMNSHO. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[lunatio_gordin]

Exactly. I didn't think i would like biology, but i found it very fascinating. And it was way better when i asked questions and understood everything that was going on. <br />heck, sometimes i'd ask questions for other people's benefit, cause i could tell they didn't understand. They think i'm the smart one in the class, so if i ask the questions, it's ok for them to, too.

 

[yevaud]

Yeah, I have found that to be the case also. I am *not* a shy person, so I'm usually one of the few who the teachers can count on to always ask something.<br /><br />Btw, as I remember, same with Genene, who's bio I posted. She was not afraid in the least about chiming in (we had the same advisor also). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>