30 years after warp drives were proposed, we still can't make the math work

[Admin]

To construct a warp drive, we would need negative mass, which doesn't appear to exist in the universe and would violate everything we know about motion, momentum and energy.

30 years after warp drives were proposed, we still can't make the math work : Read more

 

[Unclear Engineer]

"And, of course, it makes our sci-fi shows more fun to watch — we don't have to wait millions of years for our favorite spaceship crew to reach their destination."

Yes, that could lead to insufferably long commercial breaks!

 

[Marc2001]

We have to learn MUCH MORE about physics before we can undertake interstellar flght!

 

[PMDR]

They used to say traveling the world wasn't possible because you can't ride a horse or walk across oceans. Of course not. But nobody travels that way. The point is, interstellar travel isn't accomplished by trying to use an existing method (ships) but faster, somehow.

Trying to solve the problem using things like negative energy is like trying to walk across the ocean with really big floating shoes. To actually solve the problem, a wholly different approach is required, the same way we fly across oceans rather than try to walk across them.

The best that can be said is that at least people are trying to think of a way.

 

[enigma]

Maybe I'm being a bit too simplistic, but A) the universe is about 13.7 billion years old, B) the universe is about 91 billion years across. This implies that much (most?) of the universe has expanded faster than light. Now, the standard explanation is that all of these galaxies are traveling at less than the speed of light in their local frame, but the local frames are expanding faster than light. Well, isn't the exact point of Alcubierre ? A spaceship meanders along in its local frame, while the local frame is accelerated? And if it takes 10x the energy of the entire universe just to "warp" a region of 30 m (I assume you meant 30 M / 100 ft, not the 100 m / 30 ft as stated) - well, where is all this energy (to expand most of the universe faster than light) coming from? Seems like we're a couple hundred powers of 10 short.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

well, where is all this energy (to expand most of the universe faster than light) coming from? Seems like we're a couple hundred powers of 10 short.

The Big Bang Theory folks are calling it "dark energy" (and, before that, "inflation"). And the big question is what you just asked, "Where is all of this energy coming from?" Without it, the BBT doesn't work.

 

[Classical Motion]

I am of the firm belief that man explored ALL the continents and oceans long, long before he could write or record it.

The sun shadow, moon and stars gave them an orientation every day and evening. They were much more attune to daily change of such. Cycles within cycles.

Water was conquered and mastered with a tree. Our first carriage. Rivers were explored first.

After millennia of one way frustration, they hollowed the tree and made a paddle. And conquered and possessed the earth. With river road trade.

Trade gave us sailing science. From which all other science comes. The study of weather came from sailors, not farmers. Engineering came from sailors, not builders. The science of advantage came from sailors.

We sailed long, long before we built. Sailing allowed us to build.

Just an opinion. And an ocean boat is still a money hole. That hasn’t changed.

 

[billslugg]

This implies that much (most?) of the universe has expanded faster than light. Now, the standard explanation is that all of these galaxies are traveling at less than the speed of light in their local frame, but the local frames are expanding faster than light.

Every observer has their own frame of reference and in that frame they are at zero velocity.
We have no more knowledge about where the energy for expansion comes from than we know about where the universe came from.
Yes, the Alcubierre drive would work if you could just find some negative mass. As the frog says: "If only I had a pocket, I could carry a gun and shoot snakes."

 

[whoknows]

If the Universe's expansion is occuring within, maybe the required energy is a conversion of energy from a prior state of the Universe?

Is BBT (correct or not) a helpful starting point? how does expansion occur within the smallest dimensions?

 

[Unclear Engineer]

As the frog says: "If only I had a pocket, I could carry a gun and shoot snakes."

I think the marsupials would tell that frog that he also needs thumbs to do that.

Seriously, we don't know for sure that there is not way to travel to other stars, we just know for sure we can't get there with what we currently know about. We can do physics research, and we can dream - we just need to make sure we don't confuse those 2 things.

 

[Mustellus]

When fantasy involved Harry Potter or the Wizard of Oz, we understand that its a pleasant diversion. When someone slips math into the fantasy, suddenly its a question of 'making the math work'. Nope. Momentum equals mass times velocity divided by the square root of one minus speed squared over the speed of light squared. Yes you need negative mass, just as you needed particles that never slow down below the speed of light for 'tachions'.
Oh, and the spell for faster than light flight is 'Wingardium Really Fastium'

 

[Roderick Sprague (4th)]

There are ways to get things to a temperature below absolute zero: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2013.12146 . Could there be a way to use below absolute zero Bose Einstein condensate as a foot in the door to get to warp drive technology?

 

[billslugg]

The article says the ultracold gas mimics Dark Energy, the unseen force that makes galaxies at the far end of the universe accelerate. Except that DE is now debunked in favor of time dilation of the voids. Needs updating.

 

[Classical Motion]

It's amazing how theories change to remain the same.

 

[George²]

There are ways to get things to a temperature below absolute zero: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2013.12146 . Could there be a way to use below absolute zero Bose Einstein condensate as a foot in the door to get to warp drive technology?

Or -273.15°C isn't absolute temperature zero, or the sentence that is possible to go below something that is called "absolute" is lie.