Americans are not on Mars, never went to the moon too - 2

[Leovinus]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Mars runs at 85,000 kilometres per hour. Is your probe able to compete with it? <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Let's see, I don't know how fast Earth travels around the sun, but I do know that it is faster than Mars because it is closer to the Sun. Just for grins, let's pick an nice round number: 100K mph. Now we need an additional 25K mph to escape Earth's gravity well. So now we have 125K mph. Converting 85K kph to mph is around 50K mph I estimate.<br /><br />So the question is: How is Mars able to compete with our probe?<br /><br />Actually, the probe will lose speed climbing out of the Earth gravity well and the Sun's gravity well as it climbs away from the Sun. I think by the time that Mars and the probe meet, Mars actually overtakes the probe. Entry into the atmosphere removes any remaing delta-v for a nice landing.<br /><br />Of course, this has been done several times in the past. For more accurate information, I suggest you visit http://jpl.nasa.gov <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[skyeagle409]

bigbrain---You went to the moon, but it is an old fact. <br /><br />bigbrain, <br /><br />I haven't been to the moon but other astronauts have. <br /><br />bigbrain---Now I would like to talk above all about Mars. <br /><br />But bigbrain, you haven't paid me from yesterday so let's stay on track. I am not letting you off the hook that easy and you can bank on it!! <br /><br />bigbrain---Well, you are not on Mars because, as for that old fact, you have not the technology to do it. <br /><br />sky---I am not on Mars and I don’t have a rocket in my garage to get there either, so what’s the point? Your credibility on technological matters are definitely lacking. After all, you've made claims that have been proven false such as the use of rockets as brakes amongst many others. It seems that you have forgotten what the space shuttle uses to slow down in orbit? Perhaps, you are suggesting it uses parachutes. You’ve also forgotten about the Delta Clipper rocket, which proved you wrong as well. <br /><br />To simply sum it up, you have no idea what you are talking about. Now, how about answering those questions that were presented to you otherwise, I will consider you here just for the attention and nothing else and KNEW all along that we have not only been to the moon, but to Mars and other planets as well. <br />

 

[skyeagle409]

bigbrain---Well, you are not on Mars because, as for that old fact, you have not the technology to do it. <br /><br />bigbrain,<br /><br />Apparently, you are proving beyond any doubt you do not have any idea what you are talking about.<br />________________________________________________________________________________________<br /><br />"To get around, satellites sailing through space use the same tools that ancient mariners used to navigate the inhospitable oceans - the stars."<br /><br /><br />http://www.spacehike.com/esacourse.html

 

[dragon04]

Bigbrain,<br /><br />How fast Mars orbits the sun vs. how fast a space probe can fly is irrelevant other than that difference in velocity helps tell you when to launch your Mars probe.<br /><br />I know guys... An oversimplification.<br /><br />"When in Rome"<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[bigbrain]

Dear friend Leovinus, you wrote:<br />"Let's see, I don't know how fast Earth travels around the sun, but I do know that it is faster than Mars because it is closer to the Sun. Just for grins, let's pick an nice round number: 100K mph". <br /><br />No, the earth runs at 104,000 kmh<br /><br />You wrote:<br />"Now we need an additional 25K mph to escape Earth's gravity well". <br /><br />Not at all. We can escape earth's gravity even if we went at 10 kmh.<br /><br />You wrote:<br />"So now we have 125K mph. Converting 85K kph to mph is around 50K mph I estimate". <br /><br />Absolutely wrong.<br /><br />You wrote:<br />"So the question is: How is Mars able to compete with our probe?" <br /><br />You have not right ideas about space and forces that act in it.<br /><br />Since your probe has an insignificant mass, out of earth's gravity it stops.<br />To go near Mars your probe ought to run at more than 85,000 kmh if it wants to make a race.<br />Or it can go slow against Mars that comes at 85,000 kmh.<br /><br />But you can not see neither your probe nor Mars, so you could not see not even the strike.<br /><br />

 

[Leovinus]

<font color="yellow">We can escape earth's gravity even if we went at 10 kmh. </font><br /><br />Wow. I should start seeing cars going 80 kmh flying off the highways into space. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[luciusverus]

<b>Wow. I should start seeing cars going 80 kmh flying off the highways into space. </b><br /><br /><br />Aahhhh... So THAT'S how cars damage the ozone layer.......!!<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

 

[Leovinus]

Oops, I said I wasn't going to participate in this thread.<br /><br />Cya. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[luciusverus]

Too Late..............!!<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" />

 

[bigbrain]

Dear friend Leovinus<br />you wrote:<br />"Oops, I said I wasn't going to participate in this thread". <br /><br />It would be better you went away because you can only say a lot of sillynesses.

 

[bigbrain]

To get around, satellites sailing through space use the same tools that ancient mariners used to navigate the inhospitable oceans - the stars. However, soon, instead of sending back details of their position to experts here on Earth, spacecraft will be able to calculate and adjust their course all by themselves. ESA now has special software that it will test on its SMART-1 mission, due for launch in Spring 2003. <br /> <br /><br /> <br />The first sailors used stars as reference points to find out where they were going. Generally, satellites use a 'star tracker' instrument that allows them to maintain their orientation in space using groups of stars as a reference point. The spacecraft's location in space is calculated using radio signals transmitted between the spacecraft and Earth. Experts process all these data here on the ground. Once that is done, they work out what adjustments are needed to the satellite's course for it to reach its proper destination. However, all of this is set to change following the introduction of a new technology during the SMART-1 satellite mission. <br /><br />Only a lot of craps, you can not orient in the solar system looking at the stars.<br /><br />

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">ONLY A LOT OF CRAPS. YUO CAN NOT ORIENT IN THE SOLAR SYSTEM LOOKING AT THE STARS. </font><br /><br />Temper, temper.<br /><br />You're <font color="red"><b>shouting</b></font>/b> again...<br /><br />You've been asked nicely to stop, and warned about that, haven't you?<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[rubicondsrv]

"ONLY A LOT OF CRAPS. YUO CAN NOT ORIENT IN THE SOLAR SYSTEM LOOKING AT THE STARS"<br /><br />BS<br />look up deep space 1 <br />It used a star tracker for autonomus navigation. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[bigbrain]

The stars distances are of many light years. If you are moving in the solar system and do a travel of 10 million kilometres, your sight of the stars is the same. Your relationship with them and the relationship among them does not change. <br />You could deviate from the straight course of 10 million kilometres and you would think to be in the right course.

 

[bigbrain]

You wrote:<br /><br />"BS <br />look up deep space 1 <br />It used a star tracker for autonomus navigation". <br /><br />Please go here:<br />http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/deepimpact/multimedia/di-animation.html<br /><br />The reality, the power of Nasa is in 3D cartoons.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[bigbrain]

Another real image:<br />http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=h_tSpace_lunar_02.jpg&cap=Under+contract+to+NASA%2C+t%2FSpace+group+advocates+"flotilla"+approach+of+multiple+ships+to+carry+out+expeditions+to+the+Moon.+This+image+shows+three+crew+members+from+the+first+of+two+Crew+Exploration+Vehicles+%28CEVs%29+beginning+to+explore+a+lunar+south+pole+crater+for+valuable+ice+deposits%2C+from+which+rocket+propellant+can+be+created.+Image+Credit%3A+Mark+Maxwell<br /><br />This is easier to keep in hovering because the barycentre is taller.

 

[luciusverus]

That link is as long-winded as all this clap-trap you keep pouring out<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

 

[JonClarke]

BB uses "craps" alot doesn't he? "Craps" are a game oc chance. Bit like his reasoning....<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[a_lost_packet_]

<font color="yellow">bigbrain - The stars distances are of many light years. If you are moving in the solar system and do a travel of 10 million kilometres, your sight of the stars is the same. Your relationship with them and the relationship among them does not change. <br />You could deviate from the straight course of 10 million kilometres and you would think to be in the right course. </font><br /><br />Go outside tonight as soon as the stars become visible. Mark their position in the sky. Note the time. Wait 4 hours then look at their position again. Their position has changed. Magic!<br /><br />Next, stand outside under the stars. Spin around and around. Careful, you may get dizzy! Stop spinning and look up. You'll notice their position has changed! More magic!<br /><br />Get in a vehicle. Look outside the window and not the position of the stars. Travel in the vehicle, noting all turns or deviations from a straight line, for 3 hours at 60 kph and note the position of the stars. I bet you'll see that their position has changed. Even more magic!<br /><br />Now that you know what happens when you turn and travel in relationship to the stars position and the time/velocity traveled, you can navigate using the stars.<br /><br />If you can orient a craft in space so that the stars line up according to a predefined pattern, then you can know that craft's position in space. Using time honored calculations from Newton et al, you can then plot a course if you know the velocity you need and the amount of time needed at that velocity to get to another point in space. You can even make course corrections along the way by resighting your craft's position. Simple. We're talking about very short distances with very small allowances for error that are acceptable for interplanetary flight.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>

 

[luciusverus]

Craps........!!<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

 

[petepan]

<font color="yellow">The stars distances are of many light years</font><br /><br />Well, at least we can agree on something <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /><br /><br />Imagine this thought experiment.<br /><br />I am in a probe shooting of into space. Now my spaceship has windows in it. To make it simple for you it only has three windows. 1 in front of me, 1 to the left and one to the right. I want to use the stars to navigate.<br /><br />So, if I line up the front window with a star, and the left and right windows also have 'guide stars' lined up then i can be pretty sure that i am heading in the correct direction. If one of the stars 'move' out of one of my windows then i must be off track, comprende?

 

[skyeagle409]

bigbrain---The first sailors used stars as reference points to find out where they were going. Generally, satellites use a 'star tracker' instrument that allows them to maintain their orientation in space using groups of stars as a reference point. <br /><br />Bigbrain,<br /><br />You have just confirmed that satelllites use stars as references. Thank you very much! Yet, you posted the following:<br /><br />bigbrain<br />06/30/05 07:07 AM<br /><br />We have seen your probe does not look at the stars to go towards Mars. <br /><br /><br />

 

[skyeagle409]

bigbrain---This is easier to keep in hovering because the barycentre is taller. <br /><br />bigbrain,<br /><br />What was that you were saying about balancing a Coke can on your finger the other day? To further add, it was stated:<br /><br />"The lunar module has a rocket engine on the bottom and gravity forces act above it and tend to turn it upside-down in all directions." <br /><br />Source:<br /><br />bigbrain<br /><br /><br />Now, figure out how we landed on the moon.<br /><br /><br />

 

[thermionic]

I've been thinking it through, and I have determined that BigBrain is right. I'll try to give an explanation. <br /><br />In order to go to Moon or Mars, you must go very fast.<br />In order to avoid crashing when you arrive, you must slow down. <br />Slowing down requires brakes. <br />Brakes are devices that put pressure on wheel rims. Spaceships have no wheels. <br />Ergo, we could not have gone to Moon or Mars.<br /><br />I'm not convinced of his knowledge about sailing and navigation though. Anyone with at least one eyeball can tell that the stars are always rolling around up in the sky, and are therefore useless for navigation. That is why was impossible for Columbus to have sailed from Europe to the new world. I am convinced that there is a secret land bridge that they are hiding.

 

[lowendfreq]

You were so close with that land bridge call. The truth is that back then the ocean levels were a lot lower so it was possible to walk/horse & cart across.<br />Thats how we got the word BUS from Colum(bus).