Does someone have images of the Endeavour damage?

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silylene old

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From the NYT, just published.<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><br /><b>Experiments Show Shuttle Gouge Unlikely to Be Danger</b><br />...snip...<br />For the experiments, a duplicate of the Endeavour gouge was carved into a two-foot-wide array of heat tiles. That sample was then placed into a facility called an arc jet, essentially a room-size blowtorch that simulates the heat of reentry.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">While the temperature at the surface of the undamaged tiles exceeded 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit, the bottom of the gouge peaked at only 340 degrees in the test, below the 350 degree limit set by NASA.</font><br /><br />“That’s not a take-it-to-the-bank kind of answer,†said Steve Paulos, manager of the orbiter project office, in an interview today. “It’s not that simple. We have a lot of analysis to do.â€<br /><br />The arc jet tests do not fully recreate the details of air flow. For example, engineers also tested undamaged tiles, recording a maximum temperature of 300 degrees. Data from actual shuttle flights show the peak temperatures are 25 to 50 degrees lower.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Meanwhile, the computer simulations capture more conditions of reentry than the arc jet tests, but the limits of computing power require simplifying the shape of the gouge. To better compare the computer and experimental results, a set of tiles with the simplified gouge will be tested in the arc jet facility today.</font><br /><br />Mr. Paulos said engineers will be able to provide the mission management team with an “80 percent answer†today.<br /><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Hmmmm....... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>
 
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bobblebob

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" peaked at only 340 degrees in the test, below the 350 degree limit set by NASA. "<br /><br />10 degrees doesnt sound much!<br />
 
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MeteorWayne

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That is a very conservative estimate.<br />Most likely another 50 degrees would cause no damage, they are just being VERY safe. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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franontanaya

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I hope they test too if more fragments of those tiles fall apart and there's a wider gouge during reentry. There may be more damage there waiting for some heat expansion to crack and break. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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bobblebob

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My only concern is you can do all the testing you want, but you never know what can happen under 'real life' conditions.<br /><br />The Mission Briefing a few days back said that all the data suggested any foam falling from the ET and landing on one of those struts (think thats what they're called) would break up and not deflect and hit the orbitor. And we all know what really happened
 
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para3

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I realize how serious this problem with the protective tiles are and I hope everything turns out OK.<br /><br />But, some of the astronauts need to come down off their high horses and stop being so arrogant.<br /><br />Barbara Morgan was shooting off her mouth during an interview where she was saying "I know everything is going to be all right--blah, blah, blah.<br /><br />This arrogant statement brings me back to the time to what Christa Mcauliffe said before she boarded the shuttle. She was saying in an interview that "If anything happens at least NASA has safety measures so we can get down safely"<br /><br />And if you notice, it was McAuliffe and Morgan that was showing this arrogance, because they have been brainwashed into thinking that the shuttle is safe. The shuttle is a wonderful way to get into space but it is only as good as the idiots that own it. <br /><br /><br />You know as well as I do how sloppy NASA is. They will not listen to anyone, despite many good ideas from various people to stop this foam from coming off. Surely if NASA is smart enough to send a man to the moon they are smart enough to take care of this foam problem.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Personally, I feel very uneasy about this damage. It looks bad to me because I see even the damage going deeper than what the models that NASA have made, shows. I think NASA should let the crew on the space station and send a rescue shuttle. This seems to be the best option to me. <br /><br />If I offended you, I'm sorry. I was making fun of the way NASA does business. And I was trying to get across NASA's approach to most things. <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font size="3" color="#99cc00">.....Shuttle me up before I get tooooooooo old and feeble.....</font></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><font size="4" color="#ff6600">---Happiness is winning a huge lottery--- </font></strong></p> </div>
 
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racer7

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So you're advocating killing the shuttle program along with the US's manned space effort and most likely the ISS over a bad feeling? I think I would rather go with the scientists' views myself.
 
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bobblebob

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Im sure all these "interviews" they do, Nasa Press office tell them what to say and they have little input or little freedom to give their opinion
 
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para3

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I'm not advocating anything. I hope the shuttle program continues, but have very little hope with the nincompoops that are running NASA. <br /><br />If this shuttle becomes crippled and have to be abandoned for a time, surely NASA can come up with a way to repair these damage tiles and return this shuttle remotely without risking lives. NASA needs a really check. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font size="3" color="#99cc00">.....Shuttle me up before I get tooooooooo old and feeble.....</font></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><font size="4" color="#ff6600">---Happiness is winning a huge lottery--- </font></strong></p> </div>
 
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para3

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I don't know if that is true or not. But, the same things could have been worded in such a way as to not sound so arrogant. You notice that the professional astronauts aren't making such statements. In fact some of the astronauts who are still flying on shuttles have some bad criticism about what they have to fly in. So, is anyone really coached as to exactly what to say? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font size="3" color="#99cc00">.....Shuttle me up before I get tooooooooo old and feeble.....</font></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><font size="4" color="#ff6600">---Happiness is winning a huge lottery--- </font></strong></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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" In fact some of the astronauts who are still flying on shuttles have some bad criticism about what they have to fly in."<br /><br />Got any references for that? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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para3

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No, because I would watch interviews on TV like I did with the Morgan interview. <br /><br />Several years ago, when a shuttle had delay after delay, several astronauts were being interviewed before boarding the shuttle. One astronaut, whom I don't remember the name, went ballistic over so many delays. He had a bunch of not to nice words for NASA. But, in this case NASA was right to delay this particular flight.<br /><br />But, I will try to find some references on the Internet for you. But, don't hold your breath. TEE HEE <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font size="3" color="#99cc00">.....Shuttle me up before I get tooooooooo old and feeble.....</font></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><font size="4" color="#ff6600">---Happiness is winning a huge lottery--- </font></strong></p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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So the answer is no, then?<br /><br />You have no written confirmation of your interpretaion?<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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thereiwas

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"You notice that the professional astronauts aren't making such statements."<br /><br />After 10 years full time NASA employment as an astronaut, Barbara Morgan *is* a professional astronaut. What really separates Morgan (and McAuliffe) from the others is their lack of an advanced scientific or engineering education. Most of the other astronauts have multiple advanced degrees in these areas. Morgan just has a BA in biology.
 
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a_lost_packet_

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<font color="yellow">Para3 - Personally, I feel very uneasy about this damage. It looks bad to me because I see even the damage going deeper than what the models that NASA have made, shows. I think NASA should let the crew on the space station and send a rescue shuttle. This seems to be the best option to me.</font><br /><br />First of all, the damage to the tile is not thought to be life-threatening for the crew or the shuttle. The concern, AFAIK, is possible heat stress to the aluminum frame underneath which may result in extended repairs in order to bring it back up to spec level. That could significantly delay the shuttle's return to service or, for all practical purposes, decommission Endeavor considering that the program is coming down to its final years.<br /><br />Second, putting the crew on the station and sending a "rescue shuttle" (assuming that was something that is even possible) would place stress on the station's own resources and possibly endanger even more lives. There is also the problem of what to do with a very large piece of machinery floating in space that you don't want any longer. If repairs are needed, NASA will authorize the shuttle crew to take care of it with material on-board for that purpose. It's not like they'll fly up some replacement parts. AFAIK, what is available to make such repairs is already on the shuttle. Leaving a few billion dollars in assorted parts and scrubbing/delaying all Endeavor missions because you "threw it away" isn't a savory option considering the current threat estimates from the damage.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">And I was trying to get across NASA's approach to most things. </font><br /><br />If it wasn't for NASA, we wouldn't be where we are today in space. On the "performance" graph, that pretty much puts them right up there on the top. NASA blew the curve for the rest of the world's space agencies. Other countries have made significant strides with their own programs. That is <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>
 
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usn_skwerl

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im concerned for the shuttle, crew, and everyone else involved....but<br /><br />it all comes down to what happens they day they come home. godspeed, Endeavour! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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3488

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Lets hope that this will be OK.<br /><br />I really think NASA will not do anything knowingly that will endanger the crew.<br /><br />I second that usn_swerl, get back safely Endeavour.<br /><br />I am really quite concerned about this, but hope that it is for nothing.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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jimfromnsf

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"The shuttle is a wonderful way to get into space but it is only as good as the idiots that own it. "<br /><br />Which includes you, a tax payer.<br /><br /><br />"You know as well as I do how sloppy NASA is. They will not listen to anyone, despite many good ideas from various people to stop this foam from coming off. Surely if NASA is smart enough to send a man to the moon they are smart enough to take care of this foam problem. "<br /><br />No I don't and you aren't qualified to make any statements like this. Foam shedding can't prevented within the current timeframe, weight constraints aor cost<br /><br />Sending a rescue shuttle is foollish at this point<br /><br />
 
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jimfromnsf

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"So, is anyone really coached as to exactly what to say?"<br /><br />No one is coached
 
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jimfromnsf

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"But, some of the astronauts need to come down off their high horses and stop being so arrogant."<br /><br />1. It wasn't arrogant<br />2. She can say what she wants<br />3. It would be better for you to follow your own advice
 
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thereiwas

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For not being coached they sure give identical speeches, using the same PAO-approved words, with very little useful content.
 
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MeteorWayne

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Maybe great minds think alike?<br />You know, like common sense? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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jimfromnsf

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"<br />For not being coached they sure give identical speeches, using the same PAO-approved words, with very little useful content."<br /><br />They are not PAO approved. We hear all the air to ground converations, except the medical one. There is no coaching.<br /><br />Listen to a ball or football player, they say the same things<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />l
 
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para3

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While there are many of you who are attacking about what I'm saying, we'll all just have to wait until this mission is over to see who is full of hot air. And as far as me making statements that I'm not qualified to make, what qualifications do you have? Are you a shuttle engineer? Do you even work for NASA?<br /><br />I would like to get Shuttle-guys opinion on this. Now he is qualified to give a logical answer. <br /><br />So, if I'm full of hot air than wait until after this mission is over with, before some of you get on my case. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font size="3" color="#99cc00">.....Shuttle me up before I get tooooooooo old and feeble.....</font></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><font size="4" color="#ff6600">---Happiness is winning a huge lottery--- </font></strong></p> </div>
 
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