Does someone have images of the Endeavour damage?

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para3

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Thank you, Shuttle_guy. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font size="3" color="#99cc00">.....Shuttle me up before I get tooooooooo old and feeble.....</font></strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><font size="4" color="#ff6600">---Happiness is winning a huge lottery--- </font></strong></p> </div>
 
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jimfromnsf

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" 1. what qualifications do you have?<br />2. Are you a shuttle engineer? <br />3..Do you even work for NASA?"<br /><br />1. Was in the Air Force Shuttle Program office and worked over 30 shuttle missions<br />2. Was<br />3. Yes<br />
 
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SpaceKiwi

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I am really quite concerned about this...<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />I share your concern, Andrew, but readily concede that is based entirely in nervousness about tile material being missing, and not in good engineering analysis. If it were up to me, they would be patching the ding.<br /><br />However, it's not up to me, and these folks working the issue are several orders of magnitude smarter than I am ever likely to be. They have a two billion dollar vehicle and invaluable crew on the line here and will make the right decision either way, I have no doubt on that.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>
 
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a_lost_packet_

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<font color="yellow">shuttle_guy - All of the Orbiters in the last 4 flights and all future flights have a "kit" that can be installed by the crew to allow the Orbiter to attempt a return to Earth unmanned. This would be installed by the crew. the crew then would stay on the ISS to wait on rescue.</font><br /><br />Thanks for that reminder! Let's hope that something that drastic doesn't become necessary. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>
 
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erioladastra

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"Im sure all these "interviews" they do, Nasa Press office tell them what to say and they have little input or little freedom to give their opinion "<br /><br />No, no one is told WHAT to say per se. However, contrary to what jimfromnsf says they are coahed in a general sense. We also provide them with talking points and general info. But that is more so they can anticipate questions and know some basic back ground (beleieve it or not, most of us are so focused on the mission we can be oblivious to what is going on in the press) and they are on their own to what they say.
 
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erioladastra

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'This arrogant statement brings me back to the time to what Christa Mcauliffe said before she boarded the shuttle. She was saying in an interview that "If anything happens at least NASA has safety measures so we can get down safely" '<br /><br />Wow, if you want to dis them, you can say it is due being naive, not arrogance. I think you may want to go an look up the two words in the dictionary (or else you are just not expressing yourself well).<br /><br />
 
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erioladastra

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"If NASA management decides not to make a repair but the crew think they should make the tile repair what would NASA do?"<br /><br />Very unlikely that would happen. The crew carries a powerful voice and helped sway the repair on 117 that very likely wasn't needed. However, if it really, really, really came down to a total disagreement, the crew would execute the plan.
 
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SpaceKiwi

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I agree. The '118 crew are collectively a very smart group of people. They would be able to review the data and understand the conclusions reached by folks on the ground.<br /><br />Perhaps even more importantly, the crew would/will have the opportunity to consult with ground staff, be they support personnel or Astronauts with materials expertise. People who might be very good friends, and whom they can count on for an accurate opinion.<br /><br />Bottom line, the crew will be entirely comfortable with the decision to repair or not, as well as the decision to strap themselves into the seats and ride Endeavour home.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>
 
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jimfromnsf

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"However, contrary to what jimfromnsf says they are coahed in a general sense."<br />while onorbit?
 
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erioladastra

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"while onorbit? "<br /><br />Yep. If there is some event - like tile damage - we send up various bits of info, talking points etc so that if someone asks they have the data.
 
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symbolite

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You can never be to safe, if i was a member of that crew i don't care what the ground info says. Anything can happen and sometimes things happen differently out in the real world compared to what tests and data shows us. I rather be safe than sorry and make the spacewalk to make the repair.<br /><br />I wish the astronauts the best on their return trip, i just hope Nasa made the the right decision cuz if something happens im just going to *palm to face* <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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thereiwas

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I got the strong impression from the post-MMT briefing last night that the MMT does not really trust the repair techniques they have available, and does not think this is the time to test them. The press was asking, "if not now, then when?"
 
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bobblebob

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They also mentioned that repairing the gouge isnt a simple task, as none of them have done it in space. They dont know if it will work properly or even if the thick material would stick into the gash correctly. As a result its impossible to test it fully in the arc jet<br /><br />Which does beg the question when will they test it? As we may need to rely on this method someday in the future
 
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docm

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<font color="yellow">Which does beg the question when will they test it? As we may need to rely on this method someday in the future.</font><br /><br />Indeed, when will they use it if not now? First after Columbia they make a big hoopalah about creating tile fixes, then at the first opportunity to test them they say they're too dangerous to use <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /><br /><br />As for depending on the fixes in the future; if Endeavour fries the is no future. The program ends with this mission because of the ensuing s**tstorm and tiles of this type are discredited, justified or not. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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docm

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Sorry, but saying it's "not what they said" isn't strictly accurate. <br /><br />They spend the last week saying the damage is almost all the way down to aluminum but it could further damage the tiles to use the patches, hence "dangerous". Then at the last minute come out saying the damage really isn't bad enough to patch, but as you yourself said that's based on arc jet tests that themselves could very well not be representative of reality.<br /><br />As for the risk of losing the vehicle; time will tell if their decision was good or arrogance. If the wing fries, again, the program ends. Do you deny that? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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docm

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Yup; the very same testing that may well be inaccurate, making the analysis questionable.<br /><br />GIGO <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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docm

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<font color="yellow">I think the arc jet testing etc. does not model the real world as well as they want it too. I think they will get some good data to help validate the arc jet testing from this entry. </font><br /><br />Because it only generates what, Mach 5-10...half or less the shuttles reentry velocity and then only for a minute +/-? Maybe that's why they need this data to better calibrate their models <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /><br /><br />Tough on the crew if the models really do need recalibration. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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vulture2

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The two previous repairs (removal of the gap filler and tacking of the thermal blanket) were not essential either; they were done partly to gain experience and data. Similarly, doing this repair would have allowed the crew to see if there were any problems, providing valuable knowledge.
 
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MeteorWayne

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Or possible making things much worse, without sufficient time to anaylze the results of the repair before return.<br /><br />Since the current situation is well understood, and not a danger, the logical choice was to leave it alone. <br /><br />Live long and prosper. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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kurtwagner

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I think that they'd be more likely to risk the repair techniques in a more dire situation (like a leading edge RCC panel damage) or one where it's more obvious that loss of crew/vehicle is certain. Risk-benefit analysis in a life/death situation is not for the faint of heart. It's part of the business the NASA execs are in. More power to them. All of the back seat driving here is somewhat interesting reading, but that's all it is.
 
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bobblebob

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The media are probably moaning that they arent doing a repair as it means less for them to report on
 
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roykirk

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The more I read about the Dynasoar project the more I wish it was never cancelled! Oh well coulda woulda shoulda
 
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docm

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<font color="yellow">The more I read about the Dynasoar project the more I wish it was never cancelled!</font><br /><br />If anything its direct descendant was the shuttle. <br /><br />A series of lifting bodies led to the HL-20, another great idea NASA canceled then later resurrected by a private company. In this case as SpaceDev's Dream Chaser. <br /><br />HL-20 page.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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