ESA's 500 day Mars mission (Simulated)

[holmec]

ESA Article<br />http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMYNY6DWZE_index_0.html<br /><br />Looks like ESA is doing its own Martian mockup mission. I wonder if they even talked to Mars society at all. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[no_way]

Why would they need to talk to them ? Not talking to people is a great way of avoiding groupthink <br />(and in particular case, avoid catching zubrinithis <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) <br /><br />on a more serious note, more independent research is better, dont you think ?

 

[JonClarke]

This is an IBMP study that ESA has bought into. The 500 day duration was chosen because it is significantly longer than any previous chamber study and because it is roughly equiavlent to the solar electric/nuclear electric missions the the Russians have favoured for many decades now.<br /><br />Because it is a closely chamber study investigating social-psychological and life support issues the 500 day mission has a different set of goals to those that can be tested at the Mars Society stations.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[scottb50]

I hope it is a fair simulation without outside help, like the Biosphere thing. I think it is vitally important to do trials like this to find the weak areas and get a handle on what to expect in the real world. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[holmec]

Maybe so, but I'd hate to have many Space Programs do simular tests only to come up with same lessons learned when you could have got a report from some else that has done a study....<br /><br />IOW why reinvent the wheel? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[holmec]

Fair enough. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[rocketman5000]

One thing I have learned about the field of engineering is that given the same problem you will get 10 different solutions if you have people from varying backgrounds. In fact I have been involved in multiple redesign sessions where people from outside of engineering are brought into the design team and often they come up with ideas that are massivly different than the convention because they don't have preconceived notations about what can and can't be done.

 

[dreada5]

There's a saying in my line of work:<br /><br /><i>"...there's more than one way to skin a cat"</i> <br /><br />yeah some ways are just better than others. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[JonClarke]

It is one of the tricky things with such experiments. On one hand you want the simulation to be as real as possible. On the other hand you don't want to endanger people's lives. Generally with such experiments there is no extraordinary outside intervention unles the situation is potentially life threatening. This was certainly the case with the first Biosphere 2 crew and with previous programs at IBMP.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Don't worry, this experiment will well and truly extend the known envelope.<br /><br />Nobody has done a simulated space mission in a chamber for 500 days before. No previous chamber experiment as included a closed life support system. It will also be the first time a chamber experiment will feature a simulated Mars landing complete with a Mars environment and EVAs.<br /><br />People at IMBP and ESA are familiar with what the various Mars Societies have done as well. ESA personnel have been to MDRS and IBMP equipment has been tested there. Senior staff from IBMP and ESA have been speakers at various conferences organised by the different Mars societies and also had briefings on what they do.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[spacester]

Wouldn't it make more sense to have a series of experiments of shorter duration? Trying to go the full 500 days on the first go seems to be setting yourselves up for an unproductive failure.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rocketman5000]

At the same token if the shorter duration expirement runs to completion why not continue and get a more realistic simulation of a mission duration?

 

[spacester]

Sure that makes sense to an extent.<br /><br />I'm no psychologist, but the psychological aspects are a major factor in these experiments, if not the predominant field of study, right?<br /><br />How do Humans get through difficult situations? IME they project into the future, to a time when the ordeal will be in their past and they can "look back on all this and laugh."<br /><br />So a person in an experiment or on an actual mission is going to 'pace themselves' according to the known duration. They are going to be 'counting the days' til the end.<br /><br />It would seem fruitful to me to gather data for various lengths of isolation, and see if the resulting plots of "ability to cope" versus time indicate that some strategies are better for shorter times, and some are better for longer times. Is there a period of time above which the 'counting the days' strategy fails?<br /><br />Extending a mission past its scheduled duration seems borderline unethical to me, but properly managed it wouldn't be, and doing that could be very instructive indeed. Hopefully the subjects don't kill the scientists when they finally get out. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[kosmonavtkaa]

Layout of the experiment modules (from a PDF document here):<br /><br /><b><font color="orange">Facility overview</font>/b><br /><br />The Ground-based Experimental Facility (NEK) in which the experiment will be carried out is located in a special building on the IBMP site in Moscow. This building comprises the isolation facility itself, as well as the operations room, technical facilities and offices. The current lay-out of the isolation facility comprises four hermetically sealed interconnected habitat modules, in addition to one external module, which will be used to imitate a stay on the “Martian surface”. The total volume of the habitat modules is 550 m³. A technical drawing of the architecture of the facility is given in Figure 1.<br /><br /><b><font color="yellow">Module 1: Technical-medical module</font>/b><br /><br />Module 1 (3.2m × 11.9m) will house two medical berths, a toilet and equipment for routine medical examinations and telemedical, laboratory and diagnostic investigations. Should a crewmember become ill, he/she can be isolated and treated here.<br /><br /><b><font color="green">Module 2: Living quarters</font>/b><br /><br />Module 2 (3.6m × 20m) will be the main living quarters for the crew. It comprises six individual compartments for the crewmembers, a kitchen-dining room, a living room, the main control room and a toilet. The individual compartments (2.8-3.2m²) will have a bed, a desk, chair and shelves for personal belongings.<br /><br /><b><font color="blue">Module 3: Mars landing module</font>/b><br /><br />Module 3 (6.3m × 6.17m) will simulate the Mars landing module and will only be used during the 30-day “Mars orbiting” phase. It accommodates up to three crewmembers and will have three bunk beds, two workstations, a toilet, a control and data collection system, a video control and communications sy</b></b></b></b> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

Welcome!<br /><br />And thank you for the information!