Experimental evidence of higher dimensions? What to look for

[yoda9999]

If the universe has more than 3 dimensions of space, how will we detect this? How will we detect evidence or signs that there are 4th, 5th or higher spatial dimensions? What will these signs be like?<br /><br />Would they be detected in particle accelerators and through telescope observations?<br /><br />If I was a being living on a vast unbounded 2D manifold and someone in the 3rd dimension stuck their fingers into my surface I would see separate unrelated events happening at the same time. That would be a big mystery.<br /><br />Perhaps if we detected unrelated phenomenon that happen simultaneously in different parts of the universe? Like the light from multiple supernovae or gamma ray burts from different parts of the universe arriving on Earth at the exact same moment. If something like that happened more than once it would appear to be more than coincidence. That could be a sign that there were events in higher dimensions affecting our 3D part of the universe.

 

[enigma10]

The addition of evidence related to any dimension other than the ones presently known could only be detected if those suggested dimensions altered or affected in some way, the ones we know. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"<font color="#333399">An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan</font></em> </div>

 

[spayss]

They do impact EVERYTHING we know. The fact that we, as humans, can't preceive them is not relevant to their impact. We also don't see electrons or see gamma rays. The fundamental properties of energy and matter aren't dependent on any human perception or understanding of them. They existed independent of human understanding and will exist after we are gone.

 

[djtt]

or do they?

 

[dragon04]

<font color="yellow">or do they?</font><br /><br />I think they do. The odds on favorite place to unify gravity with the other forces. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">If the universe has more than 3 dimensions of space, how will we detect this?</font><br /><br />See:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mathematical_shapes<br /><br />And also,<br /><br />If you determine the distance among spatial dimensions, you must square each of the distances along each dimension and sum them together, then take the square root.<br /><br />For one spatial dimension all you need is distance between two points (forms a line segment).<br /><br />For two spatial dimensions, all you need is the distance between three points that are not in a straight line (forms a surface).<br /><br />For three spatial dimensions, all you need is the distance between four points which are not in the same surface (forms a volume).<br /><br />For four spatial dimensions, all you need is the distance between five points which are not in the same volume. Since a volume is formed by four points minimum, that implies that one of the points has to be external to these four points. This could be point of rotation, relative motion, etc.<br /><br />Perceptually, it would appear as a point seperate from the other four points. Ignoring the other four points, then we are left with a zero dimensional point.<br /><br />Our atmosphere is 3 dimensional, and from space it looks 3D, to those with the eyes which can see. To the blind, it lacks a thickness (i.e. having thickness of 0). But it has a real thickness. Patently humongous beings might say that the earth is a point of zero dimensions and the surface which crawls around it is fourth and fifth spatial dimension. But this point of view is ludicrious to people on earth who know that a sphere has 3D dimensions, and that's what the earth is. To them, our longitude is their fourth space dimension and our latitude is their fifth space dimension.<br /><br />Another absurdity!<br /><br />The only real spatial dimensions are

 

[enigma10]

Spayass-<br /><i>They do impact EVERYTHING we know.</i><br />Was never in question, nor was it suggested by my post that additional dimensions would not be detectable, only the nature of the detection, which was the original question.<br /><br /><i>The fact that we, as humans, can't preceive them is not relevant to their impact. </i><br /> Being precieved by humans and the nature of additional dimensions "impacting" the known dimensions are 2 different points of focus concerning this subject. The act of precieving the additional dimensions is an unfinished project.<br /> <br /><i>We also don't see electrons or see gamma rays.</i><br /><br /> This is a refference to naked eye visual preception, which is a very small part of preceiving the world around us.<br /><br /><i>The fundamental properties of energy and matter aren't dependent on any human perception or understanding of them. They existed independent of human understanding and will exist after we are gone. </i><br /><br /> If i didn't know better, i could almost "precieve" you are creating your own dimension with your reafirmation of the immortal status of the laws of nature. Sadly, this doesn't help the original question which was how would we precieve new dimensions. <br /><br /> It would thus still be with strong conviction to indicate no new dimensions could be precieved without them being , in some way, linked to the known dimensions. For one not to be linked, would be defined as another universe.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"<font color="#333399">An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan</font></em> </div>

 

[yoda9999]

Enigma thanks for your responses.<br />Yes, I think what I'm asking is what signs, hints or indirect evidence (physical data) might tell us that there are higher dimensions. Perhaps there have been observations in particle accelerators or telescopes that I'm not aware of?<br /><br />I'm not really asking about human "perceptions" of higher dimensions. I don't want to get philosophical.<br /><br />I believe all we have to go on are measurements and observations in our 3D universe. So I just wonder if there's any current data that hint, however indirectly, at higher dimensions? If not, what might such data or hints look like? Would they come from things like strange behaviors of particles, unexplainable galactic phenomenon?<br /><br />For example, if astronomers observed mirror images of quasars from <b>opposite</b> directions of the sky, wouldn't that be interesting? What would that say about the shape of the universe?<br />

 

[spayss]

A stated the evidence is in everything. Quantum mechanics is accepted by physics as being valid. The evidence is the existence of everything in the universe and not dependent on strange phenomenon in a particle accelerator or at a gallactic level. A pencil held in the hand doesn't have existence just because of a configuaration of energy and atoms but also because of quantum phenomena. A particle in an accelerator is not 'seen'...any more than the pencil is 'seen'. The pencil, the galaxy, the particle , etc. are all evidence. They 'have to' be the way they are (because of more dimensions) or all our understanding of matter and energy is wrong. What we know of physics does not allow the existence of the dimensions we preceive without the existence of other dimensions.

 

[yoda9999]

Can you please tell me some specific pieces of evidence found in the laboratory or observations? Can you cite an article, publication or author? Thanks!

 

[kyle_baron]

<i><br />If the universe has more than 3 dimensions of space, how will we detect this? How will we detect evidence or signs that there are 4th, 5th or higher spatial dimensions? What will these signs be like? <br /><br />Would they be detected in particle accelerators...</i><br /><br />Yep, miniture blackholes that should be created, then quickly destroyed by the LHC at Cern next year, would show that gravity was leaking into other dimensions.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_Hadron_Collider<br /><br />The Research and Safety Concern sections are particularily interesting. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[yoda9999]

Thanks for the article about the LHC. These are the kinds of information I'm looking for.

 

[yoda9999]

Since observations show that the universe is homogenous and isotropic, and space itself is expanding everywhere, could this be a sign that the universe is not a normal three dimensional space? The expansion of the universe, of space, may be a result of events from higher dimensions?

 

[gsuschrist]

Hmmm? You are confusing cause and effect with what is. The non-intuitive dimensions don't cause anything but is the universe. A similar confusion error is when the question arises when the question is asked what the Universe expands into. It doesn't and similarily the evidence of non-intuitive dimensions can't be removed from every single observation ever made. The evidence of gravity isn't an experiment or mathematical proof. The evidence of gravity is the property of every physical particle with mass. The evidence of non-intuitive dimensions is equally universal.

 

[aidan13791]

If you are interested in extra dimensions, read 'The Elegant Universe' and 'Three Roads to Quantum Gravity'<br />and also visit, superstringtheory.com. Some very interesting stuff.

 

[yoda9999]

Thanks!<br />I also found this article about a 4D space theory that offers predictions that can be verified by the Gamma Ray Large Area Space Telescope to be launched in 2007:<br /><br />http://www.physorg.com/news67773542.html