Gas Crisis!!!

[why06]

:<font color="yellow">It's been a while since ive been on this site but dog on it I have something to say!!!!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><font color="blue">I'm Getting Sick And Tired of Gas Companies<font color="red">!!!<br /><br /><font color="white"><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />You may think that our oil addiction has nothing to do with our space goals, but let me tell you it does-<br /><br /><font color="red">How can we possible expect to advance if the big gas companies are still clinging to there old ways. <font color="white">They say that that they cannot find ways to better produce hydrogen other than by oil itself- <font color="red">what kind of pholosiphy is that! <font color="white">Maybe if gas company put some real investment into researching new feuls I would believe them. <br /><br /><br /><font color="red">id you know that Bp has yet to spend as much on alternative fuels as one oil rig cost?<br /><br /><font color="yellow">-Whats up with THAt-!!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><font color="white"> I wont be impressed with an oil company till one builds a real hydrogen processing plant and officially announces they're stop searching fror new oil supplies<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><font color="red"> THEY NEED TO STOP USING THERE PROFITS FINDING NEW OIL AND INSTEAD ON ALTERNATIVES FUEL!!!!<br /><br /><font color="yellow"><br />-Well thats my take on it-<br />Please post your on commits on what should be done and what steps should be taken<br /><br /><font color="white"> please post your thoughts because the more people that post the more we'll be heard!!!!!!!!!!!!!<br /><br />-<font color="blue"> Alone we are weak together we are strong<font color="white">-</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[johnsje]

Post almost made me puke

 

[torino10]

this thread neads to be moved<br />

 

[Swampcat]

The blue font is hard to see on the gray background and the red font makes my eyes hurt.<br /><br />I don't have a problem with the intent of your post, but I really don't see what it has to do with space business or space technology. It might be more appropriate to Freespace or Technology Fora. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[why06]

well lets put it like this the goverment spends billions of dollers in gas companies a year and how can we expect are president to ever turn his intention to other things if were in a war over oil.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[why06]

okay fine ill move it <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[davf]

Ummmmmm........ I thought oil companies were in the business of drilling, extracting, refining and selling petroleum. Why should they have to develop alternate fuels?

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"well lets put it like this the goverment spends billions of dollers in gas companies a year and how can we expect are president to ever turn his intention to other things if were in a war over oil."</font><br /><br />Dude, that's a real stretch <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[enigma10]

And that is the truth. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"<font color="#333399">An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan</font></em> </div>

 

[j05h]

> I thought oil companies were in the business of drilling, extracting, refining and selling petroleum. Why should they have to develop alternate fuels?<br /><br />They are not oil companies anymore. They are energy companies now. They provide power, regardless of source. And some of them openly acknowledge the end of oil.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[josh_simonson]

Hydrogen is a diversion set up by energy companies to delay mass marketed energy efficient vehicles. A plug-in hybrid car is 3 times more energy efficient than a H2 fuel cell car, and the technology is more mature.

 

[arkady]

I don't think you realize how much of an investment reconfiguring our entire energy system represents. As much is I'd like to see the hydrogen age begin, it's not something thats gonna happen from one year to the next. If we we're to ban the use of fossil fuels it'd send our economies back to the dark ages.<br /><br />Besides, any sane company related to the energy industry should, and does, invest in alternatives to oil, as there's obviously a limited supply. At some point oil will get expensive enough that other measures enevitably will be developed. <br /><br />By the way let's not forget that burning oil is actually a step up from burning surface material. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "<font color="#0000ff"><em>The choice is the Universe, or nothing</em> ... </font>" - H.G Wells </div>

 

[enigma10]

An interesting article i dug up concerning gas.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"<font color="#333399">An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan</font></em> </div>

 

[scottb50]

By the way let's not forget that burning oil is actually a step up from burning surface material. <br /><br />Actually that's not true. If you burn wood or other organic matter you are recycling Carbon into the atmosphere that is part of the ecological system. When you burn oil, gas or coal you are putting Carbon into the air that has been sequestered for milleniums.<br /><br />The difference is you are increasing the net Carbon not redistributing the Carbon already in the ecosystem.<br />a <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nexium]

If we sequester carbon from natural sources instead of from fosil fuel, the result should be about the same. A sucessful Space elevator, may make the SPS = solar power satellites practical. The hydrogen can be made from solar electricity at about 50% efficeincy. Neil

 

[arkady]

Hmm, I see you point. Although I'm quite sure we'd run outta wood pretty fast. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "<font color="#0000ff"><em>The choice is the Universe, or nothing</em> ... </font>" - H.G Wells </div>

 

[scottb50]

That's true. One way to look at is we got to where we are today because so much Carbon was taken out of the atmosphere when the plants that became oil and gas were entombed. As the Carbon decreased in the atmosphere the temperatures moderated, maybe the same sequence as Venus, except organic molecules never got started to capture the Carbon because Venus is closer to the Sun and was hotter from the beginning. As the organics used up the Carbon temperatures moderated even more and plants flourished with the more hospitable climate. When they died they became peat type bogs then coal and as they became more and more buried oil and gas deposits.<br /><br />The problem is we are re-introducing the Carbon directly into the atmosphere by burning these fossil fuels, what took nature millions of years to do, create our relatively benign climate, has been reversed in a few hundred years to where the vast majority of Environmental Scientists, not controlled by the oil companies, have little doubt humans have caused and are causing, measurable changes.<br /><br />If we burn wood or biomass we recirculate the Carbon that is in play and except for volcanic events don't change the Carbon content in the environment. By burning oil we put long lost Carbon back into play, which might explain the existance of oil to begin with. The biomass basically choked itself, overrunning the planet until it did what we are doing by using it, increased temperatures increasing the biomass until it reached the tipping point then most of it died out. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[why06]

My point is that mostly everyone else is ready to move on except gas companies.<br /><br />Because say if their was a hydrogen powered car right now I would buy it rather than a gas one if gas station began selling hydrogen <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[docm]

More reactor capacity + plug-in hybrid & all electrics. <br /><br />The average American drives ~36 miles/day, well within the range of all electrics for commuting. For more range use the hybrid, esp. the 2-stage versions coming this fall from BMW, DaimlerChrysler, GM and others. <br /><br />These 2-stages have two 80hp electric motors built into the transmission & offering electric drive at both high and low speeds. Most hybrids use electric only at low speeds. <br /><br />Add a 300v battery box and the tranny to existing chasssis they'll fit in and poof! Instant hybrids.<br /><br />In addtion these will use electronic variable displacement; at low loads running with most of its cylinders turned off.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nexium]

Hydrogen made from fossil fuel costs about $5 per (gasoline equivalent) gallon. $6 per gallon made from solar electricity (in very sunny or very windy locations) and that assumes large scale economy. A marginal hydrogen only car can likely be marketed for about the price of an equivalent gas electric hybrid, but careful planning is needed to travel 200 kilometers per day = 120 miles per day for both hydrogen only and electric only. Hybrid cars can be modified to allow charging from the power company, but it will likely void your warranty on both the car and the battery. They don't trust us to protect the battery from over and under charge. Big batteries take 10 to 20 hours to recharge, unless you rewire your home to more than 300 amp service. Smaller batteries in puny, wimpy cars charge overnight, but there are not many customers. Hydrogen hybrids will cost double the cost of an equivalent gasoline car, and that assumes large scale economy and falling prices for fuel cells. You can put some hydrogen into the air intake on most any gasoline car, but there are some hazards and it will cost more to reduce your gas consumption, than you save on gasoline.<br />There are some promising technological advances which may help in a year or two. Neil