Hexagon on Saturn!

[spacefire]

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070327_saturn_hex.html<br /><br /><br />very interesting, could this be caused by faulty equipment on Cassini? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[dragon04]

According to the article, Voyager 1 & 2 saw the same phenomenon. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[silylene old]

What a beautiful example of Benard-Marangoni convection!!<br /><br />Interestingly, in 1985 I published a paper on the mechanism of film striations in spin coating silicon wafers with very thin films of liquid photoresist on wafers, and showed that the film striations were formed from centrifugaly stretched Benard-Marangoni cells. In the center of a spin-coated wafer, where the stresses from wafer rotation were minimal (zero)you would always find a microscopic hexagon.<br /><br />Of course the scale of what I was researching at the time was measured in micrometers, but the physics is exactly the same. It is so interesting what I observed on a micrometer scale is exactly what is obsered on a 20,000 km scale!<br /><br />The Saturnian pole will have the least rotational distortion to inhibit Benard-Marangoni cell convection, and hence a hexagon is observed.<br /><br />As one move away from the pole, rotational spin will drag other convection cells into bands. This is exactly what is observed. The exact same thing I observed when we spin-casted a liquid film on a wafer.<br /><br />This is very exciting, and I am betting that thermally driven Marangoni-Benard cell convection on a massive scale will be the explanation of the phenomena after the research is complete.<br /><br />Now I will go read the article.<br /><br />I am posting a diagram I found on the web about Marangoni cell formation in crystallizing a rotating melt. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Also see links and posts from Andrew Brown (3488) here in the Cassini thread <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[ianke]

There also seems to be a 4 sided figure at about twice the distance from the pole. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jynxed]

Did anone else notice that the hex itself remains still while the gasses move in a normal storm pattern over it? as if you can see through the storm to a solid object. I know that Saturn is a gas giant, and as far as we know there is no solid mass, but it was just an observation I made while watching the VID.

 

[yevaud]

Does this conform to Non-Linear math? That is to say, a quasi-stable region such as this is reminiscent of the Strange Attractors in dynamical chaotic systems.<br /><br />Just a thought, mind. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[silylene old]

Classical effect. If you have hot coffee in a mug, and slowly add cream, don't stir, wait about 1 min, in the center of the cup you may see a hexagon. This is a Benard cell circulation, as hot coffee rises and is cooled. In the lack of any external force, such as stirring, you will see hexagons. <br /><br />In the films I was working with, heat/cooling was not the driving force for Marangoni-Benard cell circulation. Rather the driving force was a minimization of surface energy. Surface energy becomes unstable as the film surface dries, since surface energy is strongly influenced by the concentration of dissolved solids in a liquid. Evaporation locally changes the liquid film surface solids concentration. Once surface energy becomes unstable, this can drive a cellular ciculation, by welling up fresh (more dilute) fluid to replace the concentrating fluid on the surface. I designed some interesting experiments to eliminate thermal driving force as a mechanism, and then to demonstrate that surface energy was consistent with the driving force. It was rather novel when I published this (21 yrs ago).<br /><br />Google the terms Benard or Marangoni cell for a lot of pictures and well explained examples. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[silylene old]

Solutions to the math are usually iterative, and done over a grid. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[3488]

Thanks MeteorWayne for linking my posts to this fascinating thread. <br /><br />Silylene is correct. I had seen this effect before in cooling coffee. The Hexagon at Saturn is certainly real enough. Both Voyager 1 & Voyager 2 clearly imaged it.<br /><br />Another strange thing is that the Aurora appears to be directly linked, i.e exactly the same latitude & is also Hexagonal. Any Connection??<br /><br />Also, there appears to be IMO a Vortex at the North Pole, much like the one at the south.<br /><br />Also why does the Hexagon form around Saturn's north pole, not around the south pole???<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[webscientist]

Sorry, but this image was due to be released on April 1st, 2007!<br /><br />www.titanexploration.com

 

[3488]

Hi webscientist, very funny!!! It would be a ****** to defrost!!!!!!!<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[ianke]

Is it possible that the hexagonal shape is the result of some sort of harmonic vibration on the planet? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Did you read the post from silyene above? It provides a pretty rational explanation. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[ianke]

I'm sorry. I surely did not mean to say he wasn't correct. I also did not mean to question his expert work. I found his explainations quit informative. Please don't take my question as anything but a stray observation. OK? <br /><br />I guess I was just thinking aloud (so to speak). It just reminded me of some visual effects caused by varying vibration frequencies applied to liquids. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

I think it's a city populated by small grey aliens <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> And they're gonna shoot Cassini down on it's next pass or two <img src="/images/icons/mad.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[generic_man]

It's an artificial construct.

 

[telfrow]

<font color="yellow">It's an artificial construct.</font><br /><br />If you want to discuss that, do it here - not in this thread. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[generic_man]

Why? The thread is about the Hexagon of Saturn. Why do you have two threads about the same thing in differing locations?

 

[telfrow]

One is for those who wish to discuss the possibility the feature is an "artificial construct" (Phenomena). This one is for the discussion of scientific explanations such as the one cited by <font color="yellow">Silylene</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Sorry, I shoulda checked there first <img src="/images/icons/blush.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[generic_man]

Sorry apologies. I don't necessarily believe it's artificial, but it could be. It is all Nature working. Natural effects are called "phenomena." Like storm clouds with lightning are a "natural phenomena." The Phenomena section should merge with this one to save band width. You can study Big Foot using the Scientifc Method even if you do not find him. <br /><br />

 

[dpetritsch]

I noticed that the hexagon remains still too. I posted something without seeing this catagory. Sorry. But that is very interesting, even magnatism would fluctuate. Only option is that something is solid under there. Maybe someone "Hiding out?"

 

[3488]

What could be a fixed solid in the atmosphere of Saturn?? <br /><br />Saturn by average global density (0.67g cm3) shows that it far too light to have much solid material even at the core, let alone within the atmosphere.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I noticed that the hexagon remains still too.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />The images are still images; that doesn't meant it doesn't move. What I've read about it says that clouds are seen to move around the periphery of the hexagon, and that it rotates. Whether it rotates with the planet or not is impossible to determine, as nobody knows the exact period of Saturn's day. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>