Images of Mars

Swampcat · Jan 11, 2005

"Ok. Now all of you, back to work! *crack*" *ouch* <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> Actually, I think this has been a useful discussion. Again, I can't speak for rlb2, but it's always nice to know that people are out there enjoying what we do. Now all we have to do is get some more images...things have slowed down a bit since the last flurry. "Could someone please assume the mantle of identifying and posting Mars 'fossil' pictures and the like?" I generally leave the "scientific" stuff to those who believe they are qualified to claim that title<img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />, but you're right -- the "fun stuff" is...well, fun.<img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /> I'll try to keep that in mind. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

rlb2 · Jan 11, 2005

2P157529885EFFAL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Jan 11, 2005

2P157969400EFFAL4M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Jan 11, 2005

2P157703834EFFAL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

claywoman · Jan 11, 2005

Logically I know these are just rocks and rock formations however formed, that said let me continue... Some of these rocks look eeriely just like skulls, some of the tire tracks look like muddy footprints, and I swear I saw an itty-bitty pyramid...Some of these are creepy!!!

slinted · Jan 12, 2005

swampcat : "...to present the colors of mars...under ambient lighting conditions" By this do you mean Martian lighting, or what the landscape of Mars would look like if Mars were under an Earth-like sky? Or do you mean ...and I hope this makes sense... to view the color of Mars as they would appear on Mars, while adjusting for the fact that they'll be viewed on computer monitors? I've been trying in my own colorization to characterize the colors of Mars, then make adjustments so that the perception of those colors remains the same, even though they're going to be viewed under much different, Earthlike, conditions. Its an effect known as chromatic adaptation, which requires adjusting the colors from the illuminant of Mars to the illuminant of standard monitors/print.

rlb2 · Jan 12, 2005

Remember human eyes are amazing at adapting to their surroundings. Below is one of the many images I have of the rovers prior to launch. I compared some of the preflight images to the early Martian rover shots with different filters. Later shots have dust accumulated on the rovers. Notice in the image below the background lighting appears to be similar to what you would expect on Mars??? The camera person used a flash to illuminate the foreground. If xenon is used in the flash because it has a spectrum very close to daylight (6,000K) then we have an image that would look like it would if it was outdoors. I compared this image with others to come up with what I thought was a good approximation of what the rover parts would look like here on Earth. The images that I have that where taken in ambient light without flash I darkened estimating that the area they are assembling the rover would have a high candela, candle power, of light as measured by a light meter. It’s not an exact science but just using the four color joy stick images won't work. On Mars it would be darker but you would get more UV (flashbulb type light) hitting the surface than we do on Earth. UV is not a visible light family member. Note this image is not to full size. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Jan 12, 2005

As fascinating in these images is the presence of white powdery residue of some sort. I believe we saw that some of the more unusual "rocks" in the area turned out to be as crumbly as sugar, or even flour. Pot O' Gold was one of these crumble-"rocks," as I recall. Clearly, they are not actually rock at all, but represent some sort of deposit, likely precipitated somehow. Is it possible to get a precipitate in the absence of standing fluid? I think you have two effects happening on Mars that is causing this, water ice and dry-ice. A friend showed me how industry makes dry ice, a cheaper way to maintain a supply than liquid nitrogen to shrink fit bushings, its used to shrink outside diameters of bushings for a press-fit into a mating hole and makes a good fire extinguisher. The white dry-ice powdery substance he made from compressed CO2 gas was milky white and looks so much like the white powdery substance with the same looking consistency that is in the above images. Dry-ice cakes up good forming a ball when pressed together, got to be careful to use gloves – you can get frostbite. The caking could explain the rover tracks. We know the South Polar- Region on Mars has dry-ice and water-ice , the north polar region has water-ice so why not permafrost of dry-ice and water-ice mixed together. The spectra should reveal this…..if true it is a good argument for future tarraforming and once much denser CO2 atmosphere, surface water, etc advocates ……. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

yurkin · Jan 12, 2005

Hi Rlb Wow three engineering degrees. Just trying to get my one degree has been a struggle. Which three was it?

Swampcat · Jan 12, 2005

"By this do you mean Martian lighting, or what the landscape of Mars would look like if Mars were under an Earth-like sky?" Martian lighting. "Or do you mean ...and I hope this makes sense... to view the color of Mars as they would appear on Mars, while adjusting for the fact that they'll be viewed on computer monitors?" Obviously, some adjustments are necessary, but everything I have seen coming out of JPL suggests that if a human were standing on Mars and viewing the landscape, they would notice a distinct "redness" to what they see almost as if they were viewing an Earth landscape through rose-colored glasses. "I've been trying in my own colorization to characterize the colors of Mars, then make adjustments so that the perception of those colors remains the same, even though they're going to be viewed under much different, Earthlike, conditions. Its an effect known as chromatic adaptation, which requires adjusting the colors from the illuminant of Mars to the illuminant of standard monitors/print." I would very much like to see examples. Feel free to post them. -------------------------------- Anyway, here is something I put together from two Sol 329 images (L4, L5 & L6 filters): <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

slinted · Jan 12, 2005

swampcat : http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/ has both 'from raw images' which are false color, and the color from calibrated images, which takes the spectral images released as part of the PDS (visible filters, L2->L7) converts them to CIE XYZ in the Martian whitepoint and chromatically adapt them to the D65 whitepoint so those colors display correctly on a monitor. My current focus is getting the luminance range to map correctly as to retain some of the brightness contrast. As of now, all the images, except the direct solar images are scaled the same. My images have shown me a similar-to-JPL hue across all objects, although the chromatic adaptation softens (but doesn't eliminate) the pinkish tone. Given that I haven't chosen to impart any of my own opinion into them, and that they're produced from the calibrated spectral images, I am becoming convinced that the tint is real.

Swampcat · Jan 12, 2005

"Remember human eyes are amazing at adapting to their surroundings." This is quite true, but the human eye's perception of color is going to be affected by the "color" of the available lighting. "Notice in the image below[now above <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" />] the background lighting appears to be similar to what you would expect on Mars??? The camera person used a flash to illuminate the foreground." That kinda makes my point. Without artificial lighting, the Martian landscape would have a reddish hue. "On Mars it would be darker but you would get more UV (flashbulb type light) hitting the surface than we do on Earth. UV is not a visible light family member. " And because it is not part of the visible spectrum it would not affect the ambient lighting. As has been said before, this is all subjective and I'm sure there are variations of "normal" ambient lighting on Mars just like there is on Earth. Sun angle, dust levels, etc., all have their affect. --------------------- 'Nuff said. Back to the pictures. <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /> This is another one I put together from two Oppy images around Sol 332 (L4, L5 & L6 filters): <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Jan 12, 2005

Thanks for the reply. And I must say, in all humility, that those calibrated images look very similar to the ones I produced. <img src="/images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> --------------------- This one is from Spirit on Sol 352 (L3, L5 & L6 filters): <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Jan 12, 2005

Oppy, Sol 333 (L3, L5 & L6 filters): <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Swampcat · Jan 12, 2005

Oppy, Sol 344 (L2, L5 & L7 filters): <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

thechemist · Jan 13, 2005

rlb2 - "The caking could explain the rover tracks." Since surface temperatures in the Martian equator are generally between -20 to -100 oC, it would not be possible to have solid CO2 at the MER sites. Even if the atmospheric pressure was 1 atm, you would need -80 oC to precipitate dry ice on Mars, and you only have 5-10 mbars currently. I think that the current favored opinion is that the white powder on the tracks is probably some kind of (sulfate ?) mineral. Maybe magnesium sulfate. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I feel better than James Brown. </div>

Swampcat · Jan 13, 2005

Another pair of images spliced together. From Spirit, Sol 329 & 330 (L4, L5 & L6 filters): <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

claywoman · Jan 13, 2005

On image 150...in the second hole in the picture, is there material missing? What are the chances its on the RAT device? Too bad the Rover's aren't returning, I imagine any trace of material on any of the scanners or diggers would be a boon...IMHO...or am I wrong?

rlb2 · Jan 13, 2005

Since surface temperatures in the Martian equator are generally between -20 to -100 oC, it would not be possible to have solid CO2 at the MER sites. My thoughts exactly but I thought it was a little warmer than that on the surface. The only way solid CO2 could exist so close to the surface at this location was in sun sheltered areas only like under rocks, etc. When as a child growing up in northern Illinois I would look for night crawlers under rocks and dead logs when I ran out of bait fishing for catfish in the summertime, sometimes there was ice still underneath the rocks. I think that the current favored opinion is that the white powder on the tracks is probably some kind of (sulfate ?) mineral. Maybe magnesium sulfate. Does this white powdery stuff vaporize soon after it is exposed? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Jan 13, 2005

1P150819718EFFL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Jan 13, 2005

1P150820748EFFL4M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Jan 14, 2005

Rock mage made out of mostly metal, meteorite or melted part of heat-shield??? They are very exited about it.... "Metallica" <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Jan 14, 2005

2P157970612EFFAL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

rlb2 · Jan 14, 2005

1P150908257EFFL5M1 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

thechemist · Jan 14, 2005

rlb2 - I thought it was a little warmer than that on the surface. These are the general temperatures. At places the temperature climbs above 0 oC for some periods of time, maybe even reaches a comfortable 20 oC <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> Also at the poles it goes much lower, at -145 oC Does this white powdery stuff vaporize soon after it is exposed? Well, if it a mineral, it is not supposed to evaporate at all. It could be partially mixed and covered by sand, though. Do you have found, rlb2, any images where the white powdery stuff dissapeared ? That would be interesting to see. If anyone remembers JPL comments about the white powdery stuff, please enlighten us, since I don't have time to look it up right now. I have to finish some work in order to enjoy the Huygens descend in the afternoon <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I feel better than James Brown. </div>

Images of Mars

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