Images of Mars

[rlb2]

I deleted some of my posts, I'll do the rest when I have more time so you can have more space to continue<br />the water debate and to finally achieve your goal of taking over the world. <br /><br />We then can go back to see the world through Alexis rose colored glasses.......<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[farmerman]

Rlb2 I hope you continue to post pictures of mars that you have "colorized". Not all of us have the opinion of alexblackwell. I enjoy your posts. After all this part of the message board is called images of mars, which means photographs. Maybe owners/managers of this website should delete any photograph or message after a certain period of time to save disk space. Rlb2 you just keep on colorizing and posting!

 

[chew_on_this]

I enjoy the pics... this is a mars image thread. <br /><br />Really Alex, you have your own thread now don't you?

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange">you seem to be offering nothing more than a force feeding of your own work ("Hey, look what I did!").<font color="white"><br /><br />What childish hypocritical arrogant words. <br /><br />I deleted some more. There are a lot here to delete Alex. since you think this is a waste of everyone’s time I will try to reframe from posting anymore images on this board. <br /><br />I need to get my website up and running again anyway.......... <br /><br />You should have more space now, have a nice time trying to figure out if there is or isn't any water on Mars......Oh that’s right your so confused you don't have an opinion.....<br /></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

Thanks <br /><br />I sent you that image you requested, its a large file so I hope you got it. Since I have done this so many<br /> times before it didn't take long to process it.<br /><br />I look foward to working with you <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

Thanks for the support everyone, I knew it was taking up bandwidth but space.com has never told me to stop. <br /><br />I'm going to take a brake to reflect on this for a spell and then we will see if I continue posting images here or posting them on my website or - post them at all.<br /><br />If people knew me they would know that I am a humble person and not the show-offish type of guy Alex is making me out to be. I do however have an opinion that I like to share with everyone once in a while, that will never be taken away from me. <br /><br /><br />Thanks again<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[telfrow]

Personally, I'd like you to reconsider. <br />I don't know anything about bandwidth problems or what might have precipitated AlexBlackwell's post, but I can tell you I've enjoyed the images of Mars you've posted. <br />I found the photos so interesting that this is always the first thread I visit each time I log on. <br />My sincere thanks for what you've done. I, for one, have truly appreciated it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <strong><font color="#3366ff">Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yeild.</font> - <font color="#3366ff"><em>Tennyson</em></font></strong> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

As probably the second most prolific poster on this thread I'd like to put in my two cents worth.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"what is the purpose of this thread...?"</font><br /><br />Soon after the MERs started providing raw images of Mars, I began producing color images from them mostly to see if I could do it and later to see if I could come close to what JPL produces. I started posting them because I noticed that JPL was releasing very few color images and I thought maybe others out there might like to see something other than the greyscale raw images. So, from <b><i>my</i></b> perspective, I have tried to use this thread to fill a void left by JPL's dearth of color images.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"Aside from the fact that your colors are garish, which, in my opinion, makes your processed imagery little more than abstract art..."</font><br /><br />I tend to agree that rlb2 over-processes his images, but he often mentions his own concerns about this. Personally, I don't see the point of some of the reprocessing he does, but as long as he lets us know that he's reprocessed them I don't see the problem. This thread is titled "Images of Mars" and implies nothing as to the realism or accuracy of the images posted.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"...you seem to be offering nothing more than a force feeding of your own work ('Hey, look what I did!').</font><br /><br />rlb2 has given his own response to this. I'm not sure of your reasons for saying this, especially considering your posting of links to abstracts. Hey, don't get me wrong. Though I don't read most of the links you provide, I <b><i>do</i></b> read some of them and appreciate you posting them. I simply don't understand why you would make an issue of rlb2's postings. <br /><br /><font color="yellow">"...to save bandwidth and disk space here may I suggest you avail yourself of the many free hosted websites and post your imagery there?"</font><br /><br />As others have <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

rlb2, I hope you reconsider deleting your posts. As stated in other posts, some people enjoy viewing the images. Please don't let one negative post stop you. And take the criticisms of your processing that I offered in my post to AlexBlackwell with a grain of salt. It's a free world. Do as much processing as you want. Your approach is different from mine. Viva la difference, or whatever. <br /><br />However, I <b><i>do</i></b> have one complaint. During the 27 day period between 12/11/04 and 1/7/05, you posted 169 images -- I counted them <img src="/images/icons/crazy.gif" />. Because of my personal policy of not posting the same image posted by others, you have effectively put me out of business <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" />. I'm thinking of starting a new thread of my own entitled "Realistic Approximate True Color Images of Mars by Swampcat" so I can compete <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />. j/k of course. I just started a new job and don't have as much time to kill playing around with MER images. Hopefully, I will take AlexBlackwell's advice and put together a website -- as soon as I can afford to pay for a host that will give me PHP, MySQL and a couple hundred megabytes to work with.<br /><br />Anyway, have fun and please stop deleting your images. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[silylene old]

Well, I hope RLB2 and swampcat and others continue to post images. I enjoy browsing them !<br /><br />Don't take a break, please (maybe a slight slow-down?).<br /><br />p.s. I especially enjoyed the subtle humor that RLB2 (and others ) sometimes titled their pictures. A few times I had to look hard to understand the joke ! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[rlb2]

You know whats funny about all this is that Alex was talking about the reprocessing images of the <br />Mars express that I did when he said it was "abstract art." How many times have we talked <br />about Andy Warhol contribution to art and the similarities of some of these Mars Express images......<br /><br />One thing that I love about the ESA images is they are in color and if anyone wants to see them all they<br /> have to do is go to their web site. I post that link many times..... ESA is making an honest effort to show<br /> the true colors of Mars.<br /><br />Alex needs to let ESA know that their images don't meet his requirements and to adjust his monitor <br />so he can view them in different colors. All monitors colors are different unless they are calibrated <br />relative to each other so there will be a difference in what I process from the grayscale filtered images <br />and what he ends up seeing on his................<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

Thanks - always enjoyed seeing your images. <br /><br />Just like you, I got started doing this because their was a huge void of color images coming out of JPL <br />from all the raw images we were privileged to get to see.<br /><br />Alex is still smarting from the Earlier Mars Water debate we had just before the rovers landed. Alex coverd <br />his bases by going back and forth on this issue. They not only found evidence of water that we saw from <br />space from the MOC images and Odyssey but they have reason to believe that in the future they may find <br />evidence of life there - past and even present........<br /><br />About Me<br /><br />I worked for 24 years at Boeing and the last five years behind a CATIA CAD terminal developing models in <br />3D from Engineering Drawings, programming Coordinate Measuring Machines (CMM - robotic type<br /> measuring devices) some as large as 25 feet long, 747 Titanium, 777 Landing gear beams - even did work on<br /> the F22, etc etc, etc. I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering, in Civil Engineering and in Architectural <br />Engineering. My fun interest has always been astrophysics, every chance I got I took classes in that field.<br /> <br />I have since left Boeing and now doing my own thing. I have a paper I presented at the Mars Society<br /> Conference that may be published in one of the upcoming Mars Society Books in June.<br /><br />I didn't mention my full credentials before because I didn't think that was important here. The reason<br /> I didn't mention it was that I have met all kinds of people from all walks of life at this forum and <br />am humbled by some of the thoughts expressed in here from some of these post - where they have taken<br /> out there boxcutters to provide new incites into this messy universe we live in.<br /><br />I say I a lot only for correct grammar purposes, I hate the word.<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[novi]

Rib2,<br /><br />this is the one of the few threads I watch regularly so I hope you and others continue to post your "abstract art" <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[rlb2]

Thanks tefrow, NoVi for your support. I may take a badly needed vacation away from here for a spell, <br />look into re-doing my website. I do hope Swampcat and the others keep posting <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[rlb2]

Thanks <br /><br />Your right about this. <br /><br /><font color="orange">AlexBlackwell usually posts useful links and informed opinion of concise sensibility that most <br />people respect; in this case FWIW,</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[tap_sa]

1..2..3..testing..testing... Hi everyone, this bizarre twist in otherwise great thread compels me to quit lurking and throw my 0.02 EUR (0.0264 USD) in.<br /><br />AlexBlackwell, with all due respect, the out-of-the-blue personal attack you presented here is a waste of disk space and bandwith. Pictures in this thread are not. Worrying about SDC's resources is too transparent, clearly you have some personal issues with rlb2 so could you please sort them out using private messaging instead of ruining this great thread for everybody else, thank you.<br /><br />Rlb2, swampcat and other contributors, you guys are doing great job, really. I and 'practically' everyone else hope that you keep it coming. It's commendable that you find the time to voluntarily do this stuff. <br /><br />NASA should pay you for it because in a way you are doing them a favour. Let me try to elaborate that a little. Before stumbling into this thread all the news I got about the rovers was pretty dull, mostly press releases with tiny low quality b/w-pictures. Even the official roversite is pretty much void of high quality color pictures. It appears that NASA (and perhaps certain members of academia) doesn't quite realize that while the truecolor rgb-pictures aren't most interesting scientifically, they are that to the layman. Case in point, myself. As said didn't think much of the rovers before, but after seeing the first color pics from this thread I got seriously hooked (IMHO the most stunning shots are of the dune at the bottom of Endurance) . Spent hours viewing the whole thread from the beginning and now checking regularly what the two buggers are up to, from this thread and the two others in mission & launches section.<br /><br />Now, what did NASA get from this. In my case, being a Finnish, nothing much. But I bet there are millions of american tax payers who could have similar experience. Publicly funded organisation should at least in theory be interested what the public thinks of it. Who kno

 

[farmerman]

Wow I'm impressed with what you have done the last twenty four years at Boeing. Way to go. All the aircraft that you have worked on, your work will live on for years. As for myself I have always have been interested in space since little on. Coming home from school and watching the moon landings. In sixth grade the boys in the class had a model rocketry club, and it was fun putting rockets together and flying them. But my life is farming, and nothing beats being my own boss and the freedom of the outdoors. My hobby is outer space and whats out there. Those posts you did of endurance crater convinced me that water flowed at one time. The clarity of your pictures are outstanding. Please let all of us know when you have your website going, and I will visit often. <br /><br />p.s. I just turned forty and I hope that I can one day walk on the moon. I think it would almost be better than sex, but please don't tell my wife what I just said!

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"NASA should pay you for it because in a way you are doing them a favour..."</font><br /><br />I can't speak for rlb2 (he may not need the money), but I wouldn't mind a little compensation for my efforts. Of course, I don't really consider it work. It's fun to start with a set of greyscales and see what comes out after combining them, so I'd do it whether I was paid or not.<br /><br />With <b><i>my</i></b> luck, JPL would offer me a contract and then the rovers would die. <img src="/images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /><br /><br />Also, I'm sure they will eventually release calibrated and validated color images of their own and don't really need us.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[robnissen]

"AlexBlackwell, with all due respect, the out-of-the-blue personal attack you presented here is a waste of disk space and bandwith. Pictures in this thread are not. Worrying about SDC's resources is too transparent, clearly you have some personal issues with rlb2."<br /><br />I could not agree more, except I am not sure AlexBlackwell is deserving of any due respect on this issue. Of all the ridiculous, outlandish ad hominum attacks on this board, Blackwell's was without a doubt the least called for. Just because Blackwell gets to sit in his ivory tower all day carefully peering at the NASA images (which many of us who work for a living do not have the time to do) and has access to numerous journals that may have better pictures of Mars (in his opinion) than yours, the rest of us do not. I can not tell you the many times that after you have posted images, that I went to the NASA web site to look at the rest of the NASA images that included that image. Please keep up the good work, and don't let the bitter comments of an (apparantly) frustrated academic (did he lose tenure that day?) stop you from posting beautiful and interesting images that most of us look forward to seeing every day. <br /><br />As far as Blackwell's motives for attacking you for no reason, my guess is that he is offended that academic's no longer have a totally monopoly on what science information is released to the "masses," and is striking out at you, because he has no way to attack the internet directly which has broken the academic's monopoly. Just a guess.<br />

 

[anoolios]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>rlb2 - I've been wondering for a while now, is there any chance you might post a brief description of how you colorize your images?...<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Back on 11/1/04 rib2 posted a very generous response in this thread to a question of mine on this subject, thanks for that and your images rib2! And yes, I do think the subject of image processing is worthy of more discussion. <br /><br />AlexBlackwell: rib2 has not misrepresented anything regarding his interpretation of the image data, I'm sure Space.com can handle any issues regarding bandwidth on their own, and rib2 is not force feeding anyone anything here, so what is your problem? I don't get you AlexBlackwell, on the one hand you seem to be a representative about what is best in academia; you come on to a public message board and post interesting informed thoughts and lots of links to academic sources that many would never be aware of otherwise (and I thank you for that, I'm very appreciative of most of your posts here!). On the other hand your personal attacks and some occasional opinings seem to represent what is worst in academia: proprietary intellectual opacity and arrogant elitisim. What the heck?

 

[rlb2]

<font color="orange"> 137estreet - I showed it to my colleague he was astounded by the clarity and sharpness of it. <font color="white"><br /><br />Over 90 percent of the images I post on this board are low resolution (10 percent resolution), because they<br /> wouldn’t fit to the size I post on the board if I didn’t post them that way. What I gave you was a <br />maximum resolution 100 percent image. <br /><br />There is a difference between low resolution and medium resolution, 30 percent. You can’t see <br />much difference from a medium to high resolution (50percent) on a normal computer screen. <br /><br />Very interesting Opportunity images that I processed for you, I couldn’t find them in the raw images <br />at the JPL site? <br /><br /><font color="orange">How did you end up with three Engineering degrees?<font color="white"> <br /><br />The first two years of engineering were generic, meaning that most of the credits could be used <br />by either engineering degree. I almost became a career student, always wanting to learn new things.<br /><br /><font color="orange">Tap_Sa -It appears that NASA (and perhaps certain members of academia) doesn't quite realize <br />that while the truecolor rgb-pictures aren't most interesting scientifically, they are that to the layman.<font color="white"><br /><br />That’s why Swampcat and I and others were motivated to do this because there were thousands of grayscale<br /> images that weren’t being color processed. Three raw RGB images, if processed as is, will get you a false <br />color image. I use Photoshop CS software to process them. <br /><br />The 1P157576735EFFL5M1 image was one of the few that I didn’t have to change the amount of <br />saturation after combining the three filters. It’s still a little oversaturated. <br /><br /><font color="orange"> farmerman-But my life is farming, and nothing beats being my own boss and the freedom of the <br />outdoors.<font color="white"><br /><br />My kids are grown now so one of my goals is for me and my wife to buy</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

 

[tap_sa]

<font color="yellow">" AlexBlackwell, on the one hand you seem to be a representative about what is best in academia; you come on to a public message board and post interesting informed thoughts and lots of links to academic sources that many would never be aware of otherwise (and I thank you for that, I'm very appreciative of most of your posts here!). "</font><br /><br />Hear hear. Forgot to clarify this in my post. For the things Anoolios mentios above AlexBlackwell deserves credit and respect just like the guys posting pics here.<br /><br />If a person was truly an arrogant academic elitist why would he bother to come and contribute to a public site like this at all. Now I'm willing to think that AlexBlackwell just had a really really bad day, perhaps for some totally other reasons than stuff here and when he should have shouted in his office, kicked the garbage bin hard and gone for a long walk with sore toe he made a mistake to open his computer. I hope that his days have become better, he finds the gentleman in himself to apologize and continues to contribute the <i>good</i> stuff.

 

[thechemist]

rlb2,<br />I see no reason for you or anyone else to stop posting your imaging work in this thread. Please do continue posting.<br />I have not been able to contribute to this thread for the last few months, due to heavy workload, so I rely on yours and swampcat's services to see interesting color images from the tons of raw stuff uploaded everyday by JPL.<br /><br />After all, the thread is titled : Images of Mars. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>I feel better than James Brown.</em> </div>

 

[phaze]

Hi. Ya. Could you all stop bickering and please go back to your usual routines? I've grown very accustomed to the types of posts each of you guys (and you know who you are) make and was enjoying myself greatly til this spat!<br /><br />Also, I would like to make a side request. Could someone please assume the mantle of identifying and posting Mars "fossil" pictures and the like? Definitely pictures that do not have titles like "striated wind-blown layering" -- etc. You know... fun stuff. Hasn't been much of that around here lately (though I'm keeping my fingers crossed about Titan) and I think it's important too.<br /><br />Ok. Now all of you, back to work!<br /><br />*crack*<br /><br />

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"Considering the Raleigh scattering, as well as atmospheric composition and intensity of light, adjusting to match the MER images with known appearance (using rover parts and color dial) under standard Earth lighting seems logical...."</font><br /><br />Perhaps I am mistaken, but I have been under the impression that matching Mars colors to those seen under standard Earth lighting would be incorrect, especially if that lighting was artificial. Some have argued that, because of dust in the atmosphere, there would be a general reddening of the ambient lighting. I have had my doubts about that, since Mars' atmosphere is so thin, but JPL's own color image releases tend to support this opinion. In my own efforts, I have wanted to present the colors of Mars as they might be seen by the unaided human eye under ambient lighting conditions. I would appreciate any feedback from other members concerning my assumptions.<br /><br />I know this has been discussed before (before the Big Crunch of last July), but it is a subject that interests me and it hasn't been discussed for some time. I'm always interest in further discussion of this issue. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>