Increase your Dorkabulary!

yurkin · Mar 28, 2005

Terminology Various related but esoteric terms are used for certain celestial objects: The terms are formed from the Greek roots for the planet names rather than the Latin ones, since "peri" and "apo" are Greek and it is considered bad form to mix Greek and Latin roots. Star Periastron Apastron Black hole Perimelasma Apomelasma Sun Perihelion Aphelion (1) Mercury Perihermion Aphermion (2) Venus Pericytherion Apocytherion Earth Perigee Apogee Moon Periselene Aposelene (3) Mars Periareion Apoareion Jupiter Perizene Apozene (4) Saturn Perikrone Apokrone Uranus Periuranion Apuranion Neptune Periposeidion Apoposeidion Pluto Perihadion Aphadion (5) (1) Pronounced "Aff-elion", not "Ap-helion". (2) Pronounced "Aff-ermion", not "Ap-hermion". (3) Perilune/Apolune are to be avoided. Pericynthion/Apocynthion are sometimes used for artificial bodies. (4) In theory, Perijove/Apojove are to be avoided as they mix Greek and Latin roots. In practice, however, perijove and apojove are widely used and are more recognizable than perizene/apozene. (5) Pronounced "Aff-adion", not "Ap-hadion". "Peri" is closest "Ap or Apo" is farthest. From now on I will be using the correct terminology.

vogon13 · Mar 28, 2005

Useful, very useful. But may trigger OCD in a susceptible few. I would type more now, but I have to go wash my hands. Again. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!So many people, so few recipes !!Let's clean up this stinkhole !! </div>

alpha_taur1 · Mar 29, 2005

(puts on pedantic hat) Why is aphadion pronounced Affadion? It comes from ancient Greek, and the ancient Greek phi was not pronounced fee. It was actually pronounce _pee with a small explosion of breath before the p. Phi was not a true aspirant. Ancient Greek grammarians (e.g., Dionysius Thrax) divide consonants into two primary categories: the aphona (beta, gamma, delta, kappa, pi, tau, theta, phi, and chi), and the hemiphona (zeta, ksi, psi, lambda, mu, nu, rho, sigma). In Aristotle's Poetics (1456b) the aphona (of which phi is a member) are described as "having contact" (= "meta prosboles"), but not being pronounceable without a vowel. In modern parlance we would say that aphona are the plosives, pronounced instantaneously, while hemiphona are fricatives, and those other consonants that can be pronounced continuously, without the need for a following vowel. If phi were fricative, it would be classified as one of the hemiphona. When Greek preposition apo is followed by a noun starting with vowel, the final [o] is elided (eliminated), replaced in writing by an apostrophe: ap'. However, when the following vowel is aspirated (written with a rough breathing mark in Greek, or h in romanized form), letter p of ap' is changed to a phi: aph'. For example: apo + helion ap' + helion aphelion (= the point on the orbit of a celestial body that is farthest from the sun). Similarly, hypo- + hypourgos hyp' + hypourgos hyphypourgos (= "undersecretary"). Thus, letter p followed by aspiration h turns to ph, written with letter ? (phi) in Greek. So it's Me_pisto_peles where the _ denotes release of breath and a_pelion, if we are to use strict Ancient Greek usage. On the other hand, Modern Greek phi, thi and chi are true aspirants. The change occurred at some time around the 7th century CE.

CalliArcale · Mar 29, 2005

Would that also mean that aphelion should be pronounced "afelion"? I've been saying "ap-helion" for years, so I'd like to know if I'm messing it up. (One of the problems of getting most of your nerd vocabulary from books is that you don't always pronounce it right -- for instance, it wasn't until I met my husband that I finally started pronouncing "propellant" correctly! Embarassing, but true.) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

alpha_taur1 · Mar 29, 2005

Some people do say ap-helion. I have heard both aphelion and affelion. The correct dictionary pronunciation is afelion. Strict ancient Greek pronunciation is a_pelion or like afpelion with the f pronounced very lightly. Ancient Greek and Modern Greek are very different, but much technical terminology comes to us from Ancient Greek.

CalliArcale · Mar 29, 2005

Interesting. I would guess that the "ap-helion" pronounciation occurs because it seems logical to conclude that "ap" is a prefix, and that therefore it would be wrong to tie the "p" in the prefix to the "h" in "helion". I had always used that logic, reasoning that "ap" and "helion" would've come from separate greek words, and so the "ph" wouldn't actually come from the single letter "phi". But I guess it works differently in Greek than I had thought. Interesting indeed! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

najab · Mar 29, 2005

I've always pronounced it ap-helion as well. Interesting.

najab · Mar 29, 2005

I don't say perimelasma, I just say "goodbye". <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

najab · Mar 29, 2005

(I'm going to regret this, but I can't resist)>Lots of changes in pronunciations of words. And spelling was not standardized until about 1900 or so.So does this mean that Huygens, who lived and died in the 1600's, might have spelled or pronounced his name differently? Maybe even "Hoy-gunz"?

CalliArcale · Mar 29, 2005

I found it interesting when watching the movie "Vincent and Me" that the many Dutch perfomers had a marked accent when speaking English -- and when they spoke Dutch, I suddenly couldn't understand them, but it actually sounded as if they were speaking the exact same language. It's like English with an even thicker Dutch accent. This is, of course, because the basic phonemes are surprisingly similar. English is a terrible mutt of a language, though. My favorite quote about it (which I shamelessly stole from somebody's signature) is this: "We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." -- James D. Nicoll It's so apt. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> I love English! Getting back to Dutch, probably the main reason why it has persisted unchanged for so long is because it is spoken in a relatively small and densely populated region. This may have helped mitigate the inevitable changes that accrue over time. I suspect that global telecommunications will have a similar effect on English over the next few centuries. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

teije · Mar 30, 2005

(To correct the Church Lady, "Was it SATAN?" ..... Actually, it was Seti.) Of course that proves beyond any reasonable doubt that everybody participating in any kind of SETI program is a dangerous Satan worshipping heretic! Or might that be jumping to conclusions.... <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

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